The four horses of the apocalypse?

The book Revelation (6:1-8) in the Protestant New testament presents an interesting possibility, the four horses of the apocalypse (change). A white horse, a red horse, a black horse, and a pale horse. And of course all of the folks that are interested in this idea have their own ideas on what these four horses are (what they mean). This is my take: the white horse is Democracy, the red horse is Communism, the black horse is Capitalism (no money no food or shelter), and the pale horse is Terrorism. And in today's world all four horses foretold are now present and active. Every generation for around two thousand years now has seen this prophecy coming true in their lifetime but it didn't come true. Could it becoming true in today's world? This very depressing little book of Revelation also talks about a battle on the plain of Armageddon, which is apparently somewhere in Iraq, and it comes about when the Kings (countries) of the East (Iran and the countries east of Iran) form an army that marches into Iraq and heads toward the west and apparently up to no good. And of course this army gets stomped according to the Revelation prophecy book.

Apocalypse (change)? Is it possible that this little book Revelation in the New Testament part of the Protestant Holy Scripture might accidently be on to something in today's world? The four horses are now in play at the same time and are now being ridden. And everybody knows that there is going to be a major battle in Iraq, it is just that if this prophecy stuff from the book of Revelation is real it is going to be the Shia that are marching, not the Suna. And if this prophecy is right, they are going to get stomped. Because that army looses the battle of Armageddon.

So what do you guys think about all of that, whether you are religious or not? Could we possibily be in the beginnings of an apocalypse that might have been predicted by a religious book? Are the countries east of Iraq going to form an army and march? ISIS/ISIL is giving them permission to do that. Are they going to stop with the defeat of ISIS/ISIL. Because if they don't, the prophecy in that ugly little book says that they are going to get stomped. What to you guys think?

We are in Religious Debate so it is ok to directly disagee as long as we keep dialog civilized. And I am really curious to see what you guys have say or comment about this. The possiblity of religious prophecy and the reality of today's world unfolding as a union of events is to me an interesting possibility.

mystic64 said:

that ugly little book

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You are right on there.

You've got no connecting metaphors with your conclusion... Red skins have blood shed on the land, the black skins have unbalanced scales, green/pale because of animals death/pestilence and the white horse goes forth to conquer.

So Christianity with it's white jesus, destroyed the American Indians (red skins) and covered America in blood. They robbed the wealth of Africa with their unbalanced scales. The green pale one, i think is still partially to happen, as we end up with world wide famine, due to Abrahamic religions teaching the eating of animals.

mystic64 said:

The book Revelation (6:1-8) in the Protestant New testament presents an interesting possibility, the four horses of the apocalypse (change). A white horse, a red horse, a black horse, and a pale horse. And of course all of the folks that are interested in this idea have their own ideas on what these four horses are (what they mean). This is my take: the white horse is Democracy, the red horse is Communism, the black horse is Capitalism (no money no food or shelter), and the pale horse is Terrorism. And in today's world all four horses foretold are now present and active. Every generation for around two thousand years now has seen this prophecy coming true in their lifetime but it didn't come true. Could it becoming true in today's world? This very depressing little book of Revelation also talks about a battle on the plain of Armageddon, which is apparently somewhere in Iraq, and it comes about when the Kings (countries) of the East (Iran and the countries east of Iran) form an army that marches into Iraq and heads toward the west and apparently up to no good. And of course this army gets stomped according to the Revelation prophecy book.

Apocalypse (change)? Is it possible that this little book Revelation in the New Testament part of the Protestant Holy Scripture might accidently be on to something in today's world? The four horses are now in play at the same time and are now being ridden. And everybody knows that there is going to be a major battle in Iraq, it is just that if this prophecy stuff from the book of Revelation is real it is going to be the Shia that are marching, not the Suna. And if this prophecy is right, they are going to get stomped. Because that army looses the battle of Armageddon.

So what do you guys think about all of that, whether you are religious or not? Could we possibily be in the beginnings of an apocalypse that might have been predicted by a religious book? Are the countries east of Iraq going to form an army and march? ISIS/ISIL is giving them permission to do that. Are they going to stop with the defeat of ISIS/ISIL. Because if they don't, the prophecy in that ugly little book says that they are going to get stomped. What to you guys think?

We are in Religious Debate so it is ok to directly disagee as long as we keep dialog civilized. And I am really curious to see what you guys have say or comment about this. The possiblity of religious prophecy and the reality of today's world unfolding as a union of events is to me an interesting possibility.

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Interesting idea, but lettuce consider an alternative: The four horsies are all in play from the time the book is written until the time when there is no longer any death, disease, etc. Contrary to many fictional, millennial and dispensation fantasies, the four horseymen are here for the long haul. That makes it hard to align their meanings with particular political systems. In fact all the properties of the 4 horsies are inter-related (inbred?). Like, death and war etc are not really separate thingies. These horsemen are images borrowed from another apocalyptic worked titled Zechariah. (I had to look this up. My memory isn't so good and for a second I was going to say the horsemen were from Ezekiel, but they're borrowed from Zach not Zeke. Grin.) Now, Zach's horseman are surely (may I call you Shirley?) the basis for the 4 horsemen in Revolution (Revelation. Misspelling mine to provide emphasis). So you might say Revolution borrows the horses to provide a particular interpretation of Zach's (not Zeke's) horsemen. Remember that Zeke has no horses and focuses on temples. Zack is all about horses.

Having clarified the above, let us skip forward to Zeke (or was it Zack) 12:4 in the nivvy version: "On that day, when all the nations of the earth are gathered against her, I will make Jerusalem an immovable rock for all the nations. All who try to move it will injure themselves." Which certainly sounds as if all of these horsies have something to do with Jerusalem that very troubled city whose name translates to 'Peace', however it in fact is probs or totes talking about peace, that thing which is represented as a troubled city, the city of David. Peace is such an elusive city and so often besieged. Its so far away yet so close. You be the judge for yourself, but nevs assume that its so simple as a horse race.

wizanda said:

You've got no connecting metaphors with your conclusion... Red skins have blood shed on the land, the black skins have unbalanced scales, green/pale because of animals death/pestilence and the white horse goes forth to conquer.
So Christianity with it's white jesus, destroyed the American Indians (red skins) and covered America in blood. They robbed the wealth of Africa with their unbalanced scales. The green pale one, i think is still partially to happen, as we end up with world wide famine, due to Abrahamic religions teaching the eating of animals.

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Please keep in mind that it is ' so-called Christianity ' that destroyed.
Didn't Jesus forewarn MANY would come ' in his name ' but prove false in Matthew chapter 7 ?______
Genuine Christians live by the principle of Micah 4:3-4 and Not learn or be educated in war.
They are identified by having self-sacrificing love for others - John 13:34-35; 1 John 3:10
They go by the Christian principle of Acts of the Apostles 10:35

If everyone just lived up to the ^above ^ Scriptures, wouldn't the world history of bloodshed been avoided ?

Would you say the world is seeing the pale horse riding of Revelation 6:8 ?__________

mystic64 said:

The book Revelation (6:1-8) in the Protestant New testament presents an interesting possibility, the four horses of the apocalypse (change). A white horse, a red horse, a black horse, and a pale horse. And of course all of the folks that are interested in this idea have their own ideas on what these four horses are (what they mean). This is my take: the white horse is Democracy, the red horse is Communism, the black horse is Capitalism (no money no food or shelter), and the pale horse is Terrorism. And in today's world all four horses foretold are now present and active. Every generation for around two thousand years now has seen this prophecy coming true in their lifetime but it didn't come true. Could it becoming true in today's world? This very depressing little book of Revelation also talks about a battle on the plain of Armageddon, which is apparently somewhere in Iraq, and it comes about when the Kings (countries) of the East (Iran and the countries east of Iran) form an army that marches into Iraq and heads toward the west and apparently up to no good. And of course this army gets stomped according to the Revelation prophecy book.
Apocalypse (change)? Is it possible that this little book Revelation in the New Testament part of the Protestant Holy Scripture might accidently be on to something in today's world? The four horses are now in play at the same time and are now being ridden. And everybody knows that there is going to be a major battle in Iraq, it is just that if this prophecy stuff from the book of Revelation is real it is going to be the Shia that are marching, not the Suna. And if this prophecy is right, they are going to get stomped. Because that army looses the battle of Armageddon.
So what do you guys think about all of that, whether you are religious or not? Could we possibily be in the beginnings of an apocalypse that might have been predicted by a religious book? Are the countries east of Iraq going to form an army and march? ISIS/ISIL is giving them permission to do that. Are they going to stop with the defeat of ISIS/ISIL. Because if they don't, the prophecy in that ugly little book says that they are going to get stomped. What to you guys think?
We are in Religious Debate so it is ok to directly disagee as long as we keep dialog civilized. And I am really curious to see what you guys have say or comment about this. The possiblity of religious prophecy and the reality of today's world unfolding as a union of events is to me an interesting possibility.

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Armageddon is Not a location but symbolic of God's controversy with the nations who are against God's kingdom government in the hands of Christ Jesus for a thousand years. - Jeremiah 25:31-32 Jeremiah 25:33; Revelation 19:19

What is depressing about Revelation 22:2 or Revelation 21:4-5 ?

Revelation ( a revealing of a happy future for earth ) shows that Jesus, as King of God's kingdom, will destroy wickedness on earth by righteous warfare - Revelation 19:11. The words from Jesus' mouth will be as sharp as an executioner's sword to rid the earth of the wicked - Revelation 19:14-15. God will bring to ruin only those who would bring ruin to earth (literally or morally) Revelation 11:18 B

URAVIP2ME said:

Please keep in mind that it is ' so-called Christianity ' that destroyed.
Didn't Jesus forewarn MANY would come ' in his name ' but prove false in Matthew chapter 7 ?______
Genuine Christians live by the principle of Micah 4:3-4 and Not learn or be educated in war.
They are identified by having self-sacrificing love for others - John 13:34-35; 1 John 3:10
They go by the Christian principle of Acts of the Apostles 10:35

If everyone just lived up to the ^above ^ Scriptures, wouldn't the world history of bloodshed been avoided ?

Would you say the world is seeing the pale horse riding of Revelation 6:8 ?__________

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A very smart person!

Guys, Brickjectivity has created an interesting argument and it was very creatively done. Humm? "Never assume that it is so simple as a horse race." To be honest with you I have never thought about it being a horse race . A competition between four horses and their riders. A competition that brings about change. A horse shows movement and represents power in movement. So let us start here, the book of Revelation can't be real but some parts of it could be accidently right if one adds the right symbolism. And this accidently right could end up being an interesting curiosity because it might predict the happening of a near future event. This event being peace in the Middle East. We have four powers in movement, Democracy, Communism, Capitalism, and Terrorism (as a valid institution). And these four powers in movement are using the natural conflict created by religious fundamentalism as a tool to give permission to their competition. And at this point in time the folks in the middle east are the main game pieces in this competition.

Now Guys, this is what is possibly interesting: What if the game pieces didn't want to play anymore? The Suna fundamentalist are giving the Shia fundamentalists international permission to raise an army. And when the Shuna fundamentalist army is defeated by the Shia fundamentist army the Shia fundamentalist will then have a huge standing army in the middle east. Because they are Shia fundamentalists the next challenge will be to take Mecka which is now controlled by non believers in the true faith. And this is where things get interesting. The solders of the Shia army will be told that God wants them to take Mecka because Mecka is controlled by non believers in the true faith and that they are doing God's will. And of course, that God will help them, so they can not loose. The book Revelation says that God stomps them so severly that they walk off "cursing" God. The question is, "How many of these solders would agree to fight if they knew that what their leaders are telling them is not true and that what they are saying is not sanctioned by God?" Everybody thinks that they are after Israel but that is only after they take Mecka because Mecka gives them validity. And Mecka will be God's line in the sand . The battle that was never fought and the prophecy that never came true because some took the prophecy as possibily real.

Any thoughts guys ?

mystic64 said:

Guys, Brickjectivity has created an interesting argument and it was very creatively done. Humm? "Never assume that it is so simple as a horse race." To be honest with you I have never thought about it being a horse race . A competition between four horses and their riders. A competition that brings about change. A horse shows movement and represents power in movement. So let us start here, the book of Revelation can't be real but some parts of it could be accidently right if one adds the right symbolism. And this accidently right could end up being an interesting curiosity because it might predict the happening of a near future event. This event being peace in the Middle East. We have four powers in movement, Democracy, Communism, Capitalism, and Terrorism (as a valid institution). And these four powers in movement are using the natural conflict created by religious fundamentalism as a tool to give permission to their competition. And at this point in time the folks in the middle east are the main game pieces in this competition.
Now Guys, this is what is possibly interesting: What if the game pieces didn't want to play anymore? The Suna fundamentalist are giving the Shia fundamentalists international permission to raise an army. And when the Shuna fundamentalist army is defeated by the Shia fundamentist army the Shia fundamentalist will then have a huge standing army in the middle east. Because they are Shia fundamentalists the next challenge will be to take Mecka which is now controlled by non believers in the true faith. And this is where things get interesting. The solders of the Shia army will be told that God wants them to take Mecka because Mecka is controlled by non believers in the true faith and that they are doing God's will. And of course, that God will help them, so they can not loose. The book Revelation says that God stomps them so severly that they walk off "cursing" God. The question is, "How many of these solders would agree to fight if they knew that what their leaders are telling them is not true and that what they are saying is not sanctioned by God?" Everybody thinks that they are after Israel but that is only after they take Mecka because Mecka gives them validity. And Mecka will be God's line in the sand . The battle that was never fought and the prophecy that never came true because some took the prophecy as possibily real.
Any thoughts guys ?

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Red horse for sanguinary warfare - represents global warfare - Revelation 6:4
Black horse for food shortages - global food problems - Revelation 6:5-6
Pale horse for death - people killed off by three things: (1) sword (war) (2) hunger (3) beasts of earth ( wild animals ) - Revelation 6:8
White horse for Lamb Jesus, as God's Commander in Chief, rides to complete his conquest of all the ^above ^ - Revelation 6:1-2
Jesus carries on in ' righteous warfare ' - meaning No one innocent will be in harm's way - Revelation 19:11
Righteous warier Jesus will wipe away all of earth's problems - Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-15
Then, Jesus, as King of God's kingdom, will usher in global Peace on Earth among men of goodwill.

URAVIP2ME said:

Red horse for sanguinary warfare - represents global warfare - Revelation 6:4
Black horse for food shortages - global food problems - Revelation 6:5-6
Pale horse for death - people killed off by three things: (1) sword (war) (2) hunger (3) beasts of earth ( wild animals ) - Revelation 6:8
White horse for Lamb Jesus, as God's Commander in Chief, rides to complete his conquest of all the ^above ^ - Revelation 6:1-2
Jesus carries on in ' righteous warfare ' - meaning No one innocent will be in harm's way - Revelation 19:11
Righteous warier Jesus will wipe away all of earth's problems - Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-15
Then, Jesus, as King of God's kingdom, will usher in global Peace on Earth among men of goodwill.

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Well Uravip2me, you have posted your version and I have posted my version. Humm? First of all there is no way that our beloved Lord and Savior is going to be shooting arrows at folks because He doesn't need to. All He has to do is show up and everything changes. The righteous warrior Jesus? The Jewish followers of Lord Jesus thought the same thing, but that did not happen. Yes Lord Jesus well return and usher in a thousand years of peace after which all hell will break loose again. But this thousand years of peace is not going to happen with Him commanding an army of folks that are running around killing other folks, good or bad. If you truely knew our beloved Lord and Savior, you would know that that is just not His style. And scripture claims that evil is done in by natural disaster and one hundred pound chunks of hail from heaven with that hail resulting in the victors standing on glass which means that that hail has enough heat to it that it causes the desesrt sand to turn to glass. And that hail and those natural distasters come from God, not from Jesus. Yes after God says "Hello" and evil is brought to its knees Lord Jesus will show up and supervise a peace that will last "one thousand years". Ater that things will become a mess again, a mess that will almost distroy everything.

What you are proposing here Uravip2me is a human army fighting side by side with the gods against an enemy that has absolutely "no" power without God's permission. Or maybe a divine army that shows up that is commanded by Lord Jesus. But, Lord Jesus does not need an army , all He needs is permission from the will of God. And Lord Jesus said that He would be right back "if it be My Father's will". That was over two thousand years ago. Revelation says that God is going to do what it says that He is going to do. What is doen't say is that these things will only happen if it is God's will. And it doesn't have to say that because everybody knows that already, it is a given. And the only folks that are safe are the 144,000 that are chosen from the twelve tribes of Israel. The rest of us are kind of on our own and hoping for the best and "oh well". And an angel poured a vial of some sort of stuff on Earth and a whole bunch of animals died. They didn't die and are dying because some angel poured some stuff out of a vial, most of them died and are dying because humankind really screwed up the Earth's environment. And Revelation says a lot of things that are different than what you think they are. The Dragon of Prosperity/the Red Dragon is a classic example of this. It is a form of cheap energy that no other energy can compete with and its formula is written right there in Revelation for everybody to see. "And a wonder appeared in Heaven", A cheap sourse of energy that is environmentally safe unless the reactor is broken open by an earthquake and radio active Iodine (red) is strewn all over the place. Which Revelation says will happen, but it doesn't have too. And this Dragon of Prosperity that is a wonder from Heaven only quits being a wonder from Heaven when folks are forced to wear a mark in order to participate in its gift. And that does not have to happen either if folks understand ahead of time what it is that is going on.

If prophecy is actually understood, then you can change things before they happen. Maybe not all of it, but you can change parts of it. Yep it can be done.

I think it is a terrible thing that people call the rider of the first horse Jesus. I might read the thread if I have time later. Probably not though.

savagewind said:

I think it is a terrible thing that people call the rider of the first horse Jesus. I might read the thread if I have time later. Probably not though.

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There is no reason to read this thread Savagewind , it has to do with things that normal people need to know or to be interested in .

There is also another thing in this apopcayptic stuff that is in Revelation and some folks in science is beginning to warn folks about it. The worshipping of the idol with clay feet is now in play. And that which is being worshipped is "technology" and this technology has clay feet. One little bump in the system and we are all going to be back in the 1800s .

I think the rider of the white horse pictures the false prophet, the ones coming in Jesus name but falsely.
Matthew 7:15
Matthew 24:11
Matthew 24:24
2 Peter 2:1
1 John 4:1

mystic64 said:

There is no reason to read this thread Savagewind , it has to do with things that normal people need to know or to be interested in .

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Are you calling me abnormal? LOL

I will read it. But right now I am baking.

savagewind said:

Are you calling me abnormal? LOL

I will read it. But right now I am baking.

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I knew that I would get you on that one ! I love you Savagewind, you are way too much fun !

savagewind said:

I think the rider of the white horse pictures the false prophet, the ones coming in Jesus name but falsely.
Matthew 7:15
Matthew 24:11
Matthew 24:24
2 Peter 2:1
1 John 4:1

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Well Savagewind my friend, you do have Scripture to support your version. I do not have any Scripture to support my version . Which is why nobody will ever take me seriously. And that is ok, I do not mind, at all . So just for fun, what do you consider to be the "Pale Horse"? And maybe its rider?

mystic64 said:

Well Savagewind my friend, you do have Scripture to support your version. I do not have any Scripture to support my version . Which is why nobody will ever take me seriously. And that is ok, I do not mind, at all . So just for fun, what do you consider to be the "Pale Horse"? And maybe its rider?

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I care to correct misunderstanding. I do not care to build understanding. So I do not know what the three horses and their riders mean. I agree with Brick. The four horses are not something that is prophesied to happen. I think the four horses and their riders are situations that have existed for whenever they first appeared which was at least before the writer wrote Revelations.
Like the King of the North and the King of the South keep changing these four of Rev keep changing too.
IF the three horses came before the white one then there might be some little evidence that it is Jesus. The other problem with it being Jesus is he is pictured in Heaven as these four horses are let loose. Please remember that the head of every man is Christ in turn the head of Christ is God so in that respect it can be said that Heaven lets loose these things. But they originate with man. I am sure.

The bread is in the oven.

It is God's will that all people are saved and to knowledge come. With that in mind, it is not possible to read into God's Word a prophecy of evil. If the Bible tells of evil it means it was happening at the time of the writing. Understand?

If you will consider the math of the four horses, the first one precedes the second one which precedes the third one and it all ends with the fourth one.

It is my opinion Armageddon does not mean war but means contention. According to the Bible, contention has existed since the beginning. Think Adam and especially Cain.