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JW's Preach A Different Gospel

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djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
John 8:12 (ESVST) "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."

Pro 4:18 (ESVST) 18 But "the path" of the righteous is like the "light of dawn", which shines brighter and brighter until full day.

Luke 1:78-79 (ESVST) 78 because of the tender mercy of our God, whereby "the sunrise" shall visit us from on high 79 to give light to those who sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, "to guide our feet" into the way of peace

Mat 5:15-16 (ESVST) . 16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.

Mat 6:22 (ESVST) 22 "The eye is the lamp of the body. So, if your eye is healthy, your whole body will be full of light,

Luke 11:35-36 (ESVST) 35 Therefore be careful lest the light in you be darkness. 36 If then your whole body is full of light, having no part dark, it will be wholly bright, as when a lamp with its rays gives you light."

John 11:8-10 (ESVST) ?" 9 Jesus answered, " Are there not twelve hours in the day? If anyone walks in the day, he does not stumble, because he sees the light of this world. 10 But if anyone walks in the night, he stumbles, because the light is not in him." (Proverbs 4:18 - A righteous person stumbles less because the light of his path gets brighter and brighter)

Pro 4:14 (MHC) The way of the righteous is light; Christ is their Way, and he is the Light. The saints will not be perfect till they reach heaven, but there they shall shine as the sun in his strength.
 
savagewind

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
djhwoodwerks said:
That's exactly why they take proverbs 4:18 out of context, so they can cover their false teaching behinds.

Who can't comprehend that the verse says, "the "PATH" of the "RIGHTEOUS" is "LIKE" the "LIGHT" of dawn, it gets "BRIGHTER", not "NEWER"
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The path does not change. The light does not change. Moving toward the light is what makes the light seem brighter.
 
kjw47

kjw47

Well-Known Member
JFish123 said:
So the second occurrence of theos ("God") in John 1:1 has no definite article ("the") it this refers to a lesser deity who simply has godlike qualities. But must theos ("God") without the ho ("the") refer to someone less than Jehovah? By no means!
The Greek word 'Theos' without the definite article 'ho' is used of Jehovah Himself in the New Testament with the exact same Greek construction used in John 1:1. Indeed, the "Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature" used in most Seminaries states the truth, that the word theos is used "quite predominantly of the True God, sometimes with, sometimes without the article." An example of this is in Luke 20:38, where we read of Jehovah, "He is A GOD, not of the dead, but of the living.
Secondly, everyone has observed how inconsistent the Watchtower Society translates occurrence is theos ("God") without the article. It's been noted that there are 282 such occurrences in the New Testament. At 16 places the NWT has (similar to its translation of John 1:1) either a god, god, gods, or godly.
16 out of 282 means that the NWT translators were faithful to their translation principle only 6% of the time. In other words, in the great majority of occurrences of theos without the article in the New Testament, the Watchtower did NOT translate it as "a god." Their choice to translate John 1:1 this way shows their extreme theological bias against the absolute deity of Christ shown throughout the Bible.
Did you know that if the Watchtower was consistent in translating other verses like they did in John 1:1, we'd have some very strange sounding verses? For example:
"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of A GOD." (Matthew 5:9)
"There came a man who was sent from A GOD whose name was A JOHN." (JOHN 1:6)
What does it say to you that the Watchtower translates the above verses correctly, but then sticks an indefinite article in John 1:1 in reference to Christ: "a god"? Are you sure you want to trust in the New World Translation?
Did you know that the overwhelming majority of credible Greek scholars in the world say the Watchtower Society is absolutely wrong and even deceptive in its translation including in John 1:1?
And finally, since the Watchtower Society claims that the phrase 'ho theos' ("the God") is not used of Jesus Christ in the New Testament, while in Fact, John 20:28, Matthew 1:23, and Hebrews 1:8 DO USE this phrase of Jesus Christ.
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You say Gods word says you shouldn't worship an angel. I agree :) it also says that an angel can't rule the world or be called Gods Son and yet the Watchtower says Jesus is still Michael the Angel.
Though "proskuneo" can sometimes just mean kneeling, it is the Dominant word for worship.
The fact is Jesus Christ was worshipped as God (proskuneo) many times according to the gospel accounts - and HE ALWAYS ACCEPTED SUCH WORSHIP AS APPROPRIATE.
Jesus accepted worship from Thomas (John 20:28). All the angels are told to worship Jesus (Hebrews 1:6). The wise men worshipped Jesus (Matthew 2:11). A leper worshipped Him (Matthew 8:2). A ruler bowed before him in worship (Matthew 9:18). A blind man worshipped Him (John 9:38). A woman worshipped Him (Matthew 15:35). Mary Magdalene worshipped Him (Matthew 28:9), and the disciples worshipped Him (Matthew 38:17).
Related to this, it is significant that when Paul and Barnabas were in Lystra and miraculously healed a man by Gods power those in the crowd shouted, "the gods have come down to us in the likeness of men!" (Acts 14:11) When Paul and Barnabas perceived that the people were preparing to worship them, "they tore there garments and rushed out into the crowd, crying out, "Men, why are you doing these things? We are also men, of like nature with you." By contrast Jesus NEVER sought to correct His followers or set them straight when they bowed down to worship Him. Indeed, He considered such worship as perfectly appropriate.
In Revelation the Father and Son are clearly receiving the same worship. Revelation 4:10 where the Father is worshipped and Revelation 5:11-14 where we see all if heaven worshipping the Lamb if God, Jesus Christ.
To top it all off, even in the Jehovah’s Witnesses own New World Translation it translated "proskuneo" in Hebrews 1:6 as worship. According to Jehovah’s Witnesses Answered Verse by Verse p.100-101, this was true in the 1953, 1960, 1961, and 1970 versions of the New World Translation.
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Not a single mention of Theos in John 20:8--- What a name means is not saying that one is Ho Theos
And the other mention is God, not Jesus.

No they did not worship Jesus--they bowed in obeisance to a king.--No mortal gets worship= 100% fact--its a trinity error. Jesus didn't have to correct his true followers they knew he was not God.They bowed in obeisance to their king.

There is a list in Rev of what the Father shares with the son--worship is not one of them.
 
kjw47

kjw47

Well-Known Member
JFish123 said:
We have more manuscript evidence for the New Testament then any other ancient document.
There are thousands more New Testament Greek manuscripts than any other ancient writing. Some even surviving from the second century. The internal consistency of the New Testament documents is about 99.5% textually pure. That is an amazing accuracy. In addition, there are over 19,000 copies in the Syriac, Latin, Coptic, and Aramaic languages. The total supporting New Testament manuscript base is over 24,000. And the scriptures prove time and time again in a Trinity. The Father, The Son, and the Holy Spirit are ALL called God. They ALL have the attributes of God. And they ALL do the works of God. Among others. This conspiracy theory doesn't hold up to historical evidence I'm afraid.
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All who are one with God, live to do his will--they are not God.
The trinity teachers even lie about Moses use of Elohim--Moses served-YHVH(Jehovah) a single being God--he did not use that word as- gods--there were other meanings to that Hebrew word as well. That is fact.
Fact--when one learns the teachings of Jesus they clearly see he pointed all to his Father, not to himself. Its just as he taught--- The Father is greater than i.
 
kjw47

kjw47

Well-Known Member
katiemygirl said:
It occurs to me that you really believe that Watchtower's and your interpretation of Revelation and the other prophetic books are perfect and without flaw. That you or anyone can make such a claim is ludicrous.

Do yourself a favor. Read your organization's history. How any honest hearted JW could actually read for himself the history and continue to be faithful to Watchtower is beyond my comprehension.
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Because those who make corrections to errors in front of the whole Christian world are proving 100%--truth is what they seek and want. And I know 100% for sure even after knowing all the history--they are the faithful and discreet slave appointed by Jesus. Jesus' teachings prove it--learn them.
 
kjw47

kjw47

Well-Known Member
katiemygirl said:
How is it YOU are such an expert in interpreting Revelation and ALL others outside Watchtower's Org are incorrect? Has Jesus spoken to YOU personally and told YOU what each vision means?

Look how wrong Watchtower's previous interpretations have been. How could any right thinking person ever believe or trust the interpretations of Watchtower or YOU?
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Luke 10:16--those who listen to Jesus' anointed teachers are actually listening to Jesus and God as well--so the opposite is true as well--I choose to listen.
Look how wrong Gods chosen teachers were in Jesus' day( Pharisees,scribes,saducees) the scholars of the day--were wrong on many things--they were given an opportunity to make corrections--they refused--the JW teachers do the opposite--they make corrections. They would still be Gods chosen if they too listened to Jesus and made corrections but they outright refused.
What do you think--satan is sitting idly by and doing nothing to try and stop-truth--Its his #1 job--attack Jesus' seed relentlessly. Back in Jesus day proves he gets bad teachings in- error is constantly looked for by the wise and corrections are made. But not 1 domestic on the earth knows a truth before Jesus anointed teachers do--so yes it is a wise course to listen to them.
 
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djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
Rev 22:2-3 (ESVST) . 3 No longer will there be anything accursed, but the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and his servants will worship him.

It speaks of "ONE" throne here, of God and the Lamb. Is Jesus sitting on God's lap, or, could they be one and the same person?

Oh wait a minute, throne is probably one of those words in singular form that mean more than one, like slave, but unlike archangel.
 
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djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
kjw47 said:
Look how wrong Gods chosen teachers were in Jesus' day( Pharisees,scribes,saducees) the scholars of the day
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What are you talking about? "God's chosen teachers" were the Pharisees and Sadducees? Jesus called the a brood of vipers and white washed tombs, God didn't "CHOOSE" them. They were like the GB, self appointed, self proclaimed. All through the Bible it tells who God chose to be His servant, and then it told who Jesus chose. It doesn't say anywhere that God chose the Pharisees and Sadducees. Give me a break. The last person God chose to use was John the Baptist. Please, do you think you're talking to people that have never studied the Bible?
 
J

JFish123

Active Member
kjw47 said:
All who are one with God, live to do his will--they are not God.
The trinity teachers even lie about Moses use of Elohim--Moses served-YHVH(Jehovah) a single being God--he did not use that word as- gods--there were other meanings to that Hebrew word as well. That is fact.
Fact--when one learns the teachings of Jesus they clearly see he pointed all to his Father, not to himself. Its just as he taught--- The Father is greater than i.
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The Witnesses argue that the Son is inferior in nature to the Father from verses such as these: "The Son cannot do a single thing of his own initiative, but only what he beholds the Father doing" (John 5:19). "I have not come of my own initiative, but he that sent me is real, and you do not know him. I know him because I am a representative from him, and that one sent me forth" (John 7:28-29). "I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am" (John 14:28).
What can be said about these verses? First, they may be referring to Christ’s human nature, as distinguished from his divine nature. His human nature, being created, is clearly subordinate to the Father’s divine nature.
Second, they may also refer to Christ’s person insofar as the person of the Son is generated or begotten by the person of the Father. This doesn’t mean he is unequal in his divine nature and therefore not divine. It means there is a certain logical relationship between the two persons of the Father and the Son (who are both equally divine) in which it may be said, rightly, that "the Father is greater than I"—greater in the order of the three divine persons, not greater in the order of nature or being.
Third, they may refer to the Son’s role in the economy of redemption. He came to fulfill the Father’s will in redeeming us and to reveal the Father to us, thus serving the Father. Hence, the Father holds a position in some sense superior to his. Thus the Son might be said to be inferior to the Father in the role he plays, but not in his essential nature.
Are there verses that argue against the Witnesses’ position? Sure. One example is John 5:1-18, where Jesus cures a man on the Sabbath. The Jews became angry because Jesus "worked" on the Sabbath, and in response Jesus said, "‘My Father has kept working until now, and I keep working.’ On this account indeed, the Jews began seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath but he was also calling God his own Father, making himself equal to God" (verses 17-18). Only God can be equal to himself, and this passage therefore shows that Jesus is God.
The Witnesses also ignore the import of Matthew 28:19: "Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit." Another translator’s slip here? Note the singular "name." If the Father, Son, and "holy spirit" were three different entities—God, exalted creature, and impersonal force—then they’d have three names, not one name. The fact that the singular is used implies a unity of being.
What is that one name that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit share? If there is a single, revealed name for all three Persons, that name may be Yahweh. There can be no question that God is referred to in the Old Testament as Yahweh (understood by the JWs as "Jehovah"), and this name applies to the Son as well. For example, Jesus speaking in John 8:24 says, "Therefore I said to you, You will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am [he], you will die in your sins." Notice that the NWT has added "he" in brackets to obscure the fact that the Greek words here are the words for "I Am." ("He" is not present.) An identical situation occurs at John 8:28.
As any Bible student knows, "I Am" corresponds to Jehovah or Yahweh (cf. Ex. 3:14:"God said to Moses . . . ‘Say to the people of Israel, ‘I Am has sent me to you,’" RSV).
 
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djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
kjw47 said:
Fact--when one learns the teachings of Jesus they clearly see he pointed all to his Father, not to himself. Its just as he taught--- The Father is greater than i.
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Phi 2:4-8 (ESVST) . 5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, 6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

Of course God was greater than Him, what do you believe He emptied Himself of? What does, "taking on the form of a servant" mean to you? And, "being found in human form"?
 
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djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
kjw47 said:
Jesus' teachings prove it--learn them.
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Because Jesus asked one "QUESTION", that actually had a "PRESENT TENSE" meaning, "whom his master "HAS" set over his household", that means Jesus was teaching that in 1918 He "WOULD" appoint a slave? Are there any other prophecies in the Bible thet were put in a "QUESTION" form?
 
averageJOE

averageJOE

zombie
katiemygirl said:
Do yourself a favor. Read your organization's history. How any honest hearted JW could actually read for himself the history and continue to be faithful to Watchtower is beyond my comprehension.
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The underlined is most important. Put the bible and Watchtower publications aside and conduct deep research into the organization using outside sources.
 
W

Wharton

Active Member
kjw47 said:
All who are one with God, live to do his will--they are not God.
The trinity teachers even lie about Moses use of Elohim--Moses served-YHVH(Jehovah) a single being God--he did not use that word as- gods--there were other meanings to that Hebrew word as well. That is fact.
Fact--when one learns the teachings of Jesus they clearly see he pointed all to his Father, not to himself. Its just as he taught--- The Father is greater than i.
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Fact: If you knew anything about the Jewish teaching system, you would see your error. You are the "fathers" Jesus spoke about. Not fit to teach or lead. If your "teachers" don't have apostolic succession, they fail. Failing that, they need to be working miracles as evidence of God's approval. If not, you're following "wolves."
 
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djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
Wharton said:
Actually,it does. Jesus tells the people that they sit on the seat of Moses and to listen to them but not to do as they do.
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Where might I find that at? I don't believe I have ever read it. Thank you for pointing it out!! I like to quote facts, if I'm wrong I will want to delete that post.
 
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