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JW's Preach A Different Gospel

katiemygirl

CHRISTIAN
Every eye did see him, they just didn't know it.
You directly contradict the word of God and then add to it. The words "but won't know it" were never spoken. That is another lie of Satan who loves to distort the Bible. Watchtower is just another convenient tool Satan uses.

Revelation 1:7
"Look, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him (but won't know it), even those who pierced him"; and all peoples on earth "will mourn because of him. So shall it be! Amen."
 
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JFish123

Active Member
People won't believe anything in The Bible is wrong but then they say the JW Bible wrong.
That's only because the errors are very obvious to most scholars of a Greek and Hebrew. Added to that the history of the New World Translation, and you no doubt get the consensus of it being error prone and even deceptive in places.
 

JFish123

Active Member
Some Bible Verses that say
“Jesus is God”

Some people claim to believe that Jesus is not God. If that is you, I would like to encourage you to consider some of these Bible verses:
Matthew 1:23 - “Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which is translated, “God with us.”

Isaiah 9:6 - For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Isaiah 43:10,11 - “You are My witnesses,” says the Lord, “And My servant whom I have chosen, That you may know and believe Me, and understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after Me. I, even I, am the Lord, and besides Me there is no Savior.”
Jesus calls us to be HIS Witnesses (acts 1:8)
Revelation 1:17-18; Revelation 2:8 - (Jesus is the First and the Last)

Isaiah 44:6 - (God is the Redeemer)
2 Peter 1:1 (Jesus is the Redeemer) - “To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ”

Isaiah 44:24 - (God created the world by His self alone)
John 1:3; Colossians 1:16 - (Jesus made all things)

John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God... 1:14 - And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us,

John 5:17,18 - “My Father has been working until now, and I have been working.” Therefore the Jews sought to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.

John 5:23 - that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.

John 8:24 - “Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I AM [He], you will die in your sins.”

John 8:58 - Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”

John 10:30-33 - Jesus answered them, “I and My Father are one.” Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?” The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”

John 14:6-7 - Jesus said to him, “I AM the way, the truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.”

John 14:9-11 - Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?”

John 20:28 - And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

Acts 4:12 - “Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

Acts 20:28 - (God purchased us with His own blood)
Revelation 1:5-6; Revelation 5:8-9 - (Jesus' blood purchased us)

Philippians 2:5-7 - Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bond-servant, and coming in the likeness of men.

Colossians 2:9 - For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily

1 Timothy 3:16 - And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.

Titus 2:13 - looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ

Hebrews 1:8-9 - But to the Son He says: “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”

2 John 1:7 - For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Revelation 1:8 - “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

Revelation 22:13 - “I AM the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”... 22:16 - “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches.”

1 Timothy 6:14-16 - “our Lord Jesus Christ's appearing, which He will manifest in His own time, He who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see, to whom be honor and everlasting power. Amen.”


Hebrews 2:17-18 - “Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. For in that He Himself has suffered, being tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted.”
Hebrews 4:15-16 - “For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.”
1 Peter 2:24 - “who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we having died to sins, might live for righteousness - by whose stripes you were healed.”

He went from sovereignty to shame and from deity to death? Why!? For you.
John 15:13 - “Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one's life for his friends.”
Romans 5:8 - “But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
 
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JFish123

Active Member
The name of the thread--The JW,s preach a different gospel

6 major teachings from Jesus

Matt 6:33-- Therefore keep on seeking first the kingdom and his( Jehovah) righteousness, and all these other things will be added( sustenance, covering, spirituality)

Matt 5:5--Bleassed are the meek for they( great multitude) will inherit the earth.

The Lords prayer--Hallowed be thy( Father) name( Jehovah)--last line--the KINGDOM, POWER, and GLORY all belong to the Father.

Jesus teaches he has a God-his Father--John 20:17, Rev 3:12-- so do his real teachers--2Cor 1:3, 1Cor 8:6, 1Cor 15:24-28--- 1Peter 1:3--- Rev 1:6

At John 17:1-6,26-- Jesus teaches--the one who sent him( Father) is THE ONLY TRUE GOD-- verse 6 = Jehovah, 26= Jehovah

John 4:22-24--- the bottom line reality of all truth accomplished daily by the true followers= Jehovah.

its easy to see who is preaching the correct gospel--one just has to believe Jesus.
1. Jesus Never called God Jehovah.

2. Jesus taught EVERYONE who believes in Him would be in Heaven:
Galatians 3:29; 4:28-31, Titus 3:7, James 2:5, Romans 3:21, John 10:16, John 12:26, Matthew 9:35-38, Mark 1:14-15, Luke 12:22-34

3. Jesus Reveals Himself to Be God and a Trinity: Mark 14:62, Matthew 26:64, Luke 21:27, John 3:13, John 5:17-18, John 8:58, John 14:9-11, Revelation 22:13, among many more

4. Jesus Always Accepted Worship from People to Himself: John 20:28, Hebrews 1:6, Matthew 2:11, Matthew 8:2, Matthew 9:18, John 9:38, Matthew15:35, Matthew 28:9, Matthew 38:17
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
That's only because the errors are very obvious to most scholars of a Greek and Hebrew. Added to that the history of the New World Translation, and you no doubt get the consensus of it being error prone and even deceptive in places.
So are you saying the less obvious errors are not errors? Is something wrong only when the right person knows it is wrong? Is Jesus Christ the only right person? I think so. What do you think?
 

JFish123

Active Member
So are you saying the less obvious errors are not errors? Is something wrong only when the right person knows it is wrong? Is Jesus Christ the only right person? I think so. What do you think?
What errors do you speak of in the "Christendom" bible? Need to know where your coming from is all :)
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Your gonna have to give me more then just what you think is an error, but Why you think it's an error
Do you want to start a thread about it? I do not "think" it is an error. I know it is an error. It is not my opinion that it is wrong. It should say "love does not provoke". I am sure. Love not provoke is its literal English translation.

To prove it let us start at the beginning. Is God love? Was God provoked by Adam? I rest my case. Thank you for listening. There are many, many more scriptures which prove God does become provoked. I do not feel like doing the work though.
 

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
There are about 82 verses where Jesus refers to "The Son of man" as another person, different from Himself. These are a few.

Mat 8:20 (ESVST) 20 And Jesus said to him, " Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay his head."

Mat 9:6 (ESVST) 6 But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins

Mat 10:23 (ESVST) 23 for truly, I say to you, you will not have gone through all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

Mat 11:19 (ESVST) 19 The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Look at him! A glutton and a drunkard

Mat 12:7-8 (ESVST) , 'I desire mercy, and not sacrifice, ' you would not have condemned the guiltless. 8 For the Son of Man is lord of the Sabbath."

Mar 14:61-62 (ESVST) ?" 62 And Jesus said, "I am, and you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven."

Mat 19:28 (ESVST) "Truly, I say to you, in the new world, when the Son of Man will sit on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Jn 13:31-33 (ESVST) 31 When he had gone out, Jesus said, " Now is the Son of Man glorified, and God is glorified in him. 32 If God is glorified in him, God will also glorify him in himself, and glorify him at once. 33 Little children, yet a little while I am with you. You will seek me, and just as I said to the Jews, so now I also say to you, ' Where I am going you cannot come.


Jn 17:1-3 (ESVST) , " Father, the hour has come; glorify your Son that the Son may glorify you, 2 since you have given him authority over all flesh, to give eternal life to all whom you have given him. 3 And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.

Why is Jesus talking about Himself as a separate person? Why doesn't He say, "since You have given ME authority over all flesh"? Whenever Jesus is talking about the Son or Jesus Christ, it's always in third person. Jesus starts His prayer in John 17 in the third person and then goes to first person when He talks about Himself.
 

JFish123

Active Member
Do you want to start a thread about it? I do not "think" it is an error. I know it is an error. It is not my opinion that it is wrong. It should say "love does not provoke". I am sure. Love not provoke is its literal English translation.

To prove it let us start at the beginning. Is God love? Was God provoked by Adam? I rest my case. Thank you for listening. There are many, many more scriptures which prove God does become provoked. I do not feel like doing the work though.
It should say "love does not provoke," you say. Ok... The NASB
Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant,
5 does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, IS NOT PROVOKED, does not take into account a wrong suffered,
6 does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth;
7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

King James Bible
Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
Holman Christian Standard Bible
does not act improperly, is not selfish, is not provoked, and does not keep a record of wrongs.
American Standard Version
doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not its own, is not provoked, taketh not account of evil;
English Revised Version
doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not its own, is not provoked, taketh not account of evil;
Young's Literal Translation
doth not act unseemly, doth not seek its own things, is not provoked, doth not impute evil,

All these "Christendom" Bibles as some JW's call them have exactly what you say should be there. So what's the problem? I'm not understanding. Some Bible translations try to give literal meanings of Hebrew and Greek words but some don't have any English equivalent, and some others use thought for thought so long as the meaning of the text comes through of what they were saying. Only the NWT the JW's use actively changes meanings of verses to fit there ideology.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
It should say "love does not provoke," you say. Ok... The NASB
Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant,
5 does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, IS NOT PROVOKED, does not take into account a wrong suffered,
6 does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth;
7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

King James Bible
Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
Holman Christian Standard Bible
does not act improperly, is not selfish, is not provoked, and does not keep a record of wrongs.
American Standard Version
doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not its own, is not provoked, taketh not account of evil;
English Revised Version
doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not its own, is not provoked, taketh not account of evil;
Young's Literal Translation
doth not act unseemly, doth not seek its own things, is not provoked, doth not impute evil,

All these "Christendom" Bibles as some JW's call them have exactly what you say should be there. So what's the problem? I'm not understanding. Some Bible translations try to give literal meanings of Hebrew and Greek words but some don't have any English equivalent, and some others use thought for thought so long as the meaning of the text comes through of what they were saying. Only the NWT the JW's use actively changes meanings of verses to fit there ideology.
What? I do not say "love is not provoked" should be there. There is a big difference between being provoked and provoking. The truth is love (God) does not provoke. The lie is that love (God) is not provoked. The scriptures you kindly added say love is not provoked. That is not true. But we are off topic and even though the thread creator can not see me, as I am dead to her, I don't know if it matters much.

She was provoked by me, the provoker. That makes her better than me. I might add that she was easily provoked imho. I did not mean to provoke her even though she said I did.
 

kjw47

Well-Known Member
Nice try again, but you are still in error!

Pro 4:18 (ESVST) 18 But the "PATH" of the righteous "IS LIKE" the light of dawn, which shines brighter and brighter until full day.

His "PATH" gets brighter and brighter. It does not say the"LIGHT" gets brighter.


The path obviously only can get brighter by (new) light shining( them learning truths)--And Daniel 12:4 guarantees--new light shines in the last days.
 

kjw47

Well-Known Member
How come Jesus "NEVER" uttered the word JEHOVAH?


Jesus didn't know that name--he worshipped and was taught-YHVH as a Hebrew--a single being God. The one he calls his God--his Father. And Jesus did make the name known and continues to make it known) John 17:6,26)
 

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
The path obviously only can get brighter by (new) light shining( them learning truths)--And Daniel 12:4 guarantees--new light shines in the last days.

.Dan 12:4 (ESVST) 4 But you, Daniel, shut up the words and seal the book, until the time of the end. Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase."

Hmmm, my Bible says knowledge will increase. It doesn't say anything about light.
 

kjw47

Well-Known Member
Your right, your God would never do that. And thats because your God isn't real. You put your emotions above God my friend. You can't feel the thought of a loving God creating a hell. But that's not what the Bible says. To create a God you feel more comfortable with, is idolatry.
1. There is indeed a hell.
Jesus actually spoke more about hell then He did heaven, and you believe heaven exists I'm sure right?
One scripture the Watchtower likes to point to is Matthew 25:46. Many translations of the Word of God say something to this effect as in the ESV, "and these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." Notice that this translation has the words "eternal punishment" instead of the New World Translations "everlasting cutting-off" the Greek words in question are aionios (eternal) and kolasis (punishment).
Regarding the second word, it is true that the stem of kolasis (kalazoo) originally meant "pruning." But well known Greek scholars agree that there is no justification for the translation "cutting-off" in Matthew 25:46. The meaning is confirmed by the authoritative "Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament", "The Vocabulary of the Greek New Testament", "Theological Dictionary of the New Testament" as well as many others.
The punishment spoken of in Matthew 25:46 cannot be defined as a non suffering extinction of conscience. Indeed, of actual suffering is lacking then so is punishment. Let us be clear on this: PUNISHMENT ENTAILS SUFFERING, and SUFFERING NECESSARILY ENTAILS CONSCIENCE. One can exist and not be punished; but no one can be punished and not exist. Annihilation avoids punishment, rather than encountering it.
So, how do we know that the punishment in Matthew 25:46 does not entail an extinction of conscience and annihilation? There are many evidences. For example, consider the Fact that there are no DEGREES of annihilation. After all, one is either annihilated or one is not. In contrast, Scripture teaches that there will be degrees of punishment on the day of judgment (Matthew 10:15, 11:21-24, 16:27; Luke 12:47-48; John 15:22; Hebrews 10:29; revelation 20:11-15, 22:12, etc...)
The very Fact that people will suffer varying degrees of punishment in hell shows that annihilation or the extinction of conscience is not taught in Matthew 25:46 or anywhere else in Scripture. These are incompatible concepts.
2. A Loving God can and did create a Hell
For one, God doesn't send anyone to Hell. You send yourself there. God has done everything He possibly can to keep you out of Hell and still leave you as a person with free will and not just a robot. That's the way He made us--after His image, after His likeness, the power to say “yes” or the power to say “no,” the power to reject our own Creator, and of course to take the consequences.
In one sense you can say He doesn't send anybody to Hell, because across the road to Hell he has placed the cross of Christ. There are also the prayers of parents, pastors and Sunday school teachers, and all the other things that God brings into our lives to stop us on our selfish way and to bring us to the Savior. We have to go wandering on past it all and put ourselves in Hell.
"We may rest assured that no one will suffer in hell who could by any means have been won to Christ in this life. God leaves no stone unturned to rescue all who would respond to the convicting and wooing of the Holy Spirit."
- Dave Hunt
Sometimes you hear people say, "God wouldn't send His children to Hell." God certainly doesn't send His children to Hell because when we're His children we're in the family of God. We're born again and part of our salvation includes deliverance from judgment. We're not all children of God except through faith in Christ Jesus.
Can a God of love send anyone to Hell? You might as well ask some other question to make just as much sense. Does God allow disease in the world? Does God allow jails and prisons for some people? Does God allow the electric chair sometimes? Does God allow sin to break homes and hearts? Does God allow war? All of these things are the consequences of sin entering into the world, and in some cases the direct result of man's rebellion, and the result of greed and pride and egotism and hunger for power that doesn't have any use for people--only the desire to get ahead.
This is the incredible fruit of sin. Sin brings suffering into the world. There's no way of getting around it. And the greatest sin in the world is to reject the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior.
"I willingly believe that the damned are, in one sense, successful, rebels to the end; that the doors of hell are locked on the inside. All that are in Hell, choose it. Without that self-choice there could be no Hell. No soul that seriously and constantly desires joy will ever miss it. Those who seek find. To those who knock it is opened. And yourself, in a dark hour, may will [a grumbling] mood, embrace it. Ye can repent and come out of it again. But there may come a day when you can do that no longer. Then there will be no you left to criticize the mood…"
—excerpted from The Problem of Pain and The Great Divorce, by C.S. Lewis (1898-1963), included in The Quotable Lewis, 1989 Tyndale
The loving nature of God requires justice if it is to be meaningful, and the justice of God requires punishment if it is to be fair. At the same time, human freedom must result in a consequence if it is to be significant, and the consequence for evil actions must ultimately be appropriate if God is to be just. Finally, the power of God necessitates victory, and eternal victory requires an eternal mode of punishment. The paradox of God’s love and justice necessitates the existence of Hell.
God’s love does not compel Him to eliminate the necessary punishment and consequence for sin, but instead compels Him to offer us a way to avoid this consequence altogether. By offering forgiveness through the sacrifice of Christ on the cross (who took our punishment), God demonstrated His love for us. It cannot be said that a loving God would never create a place like Hell if that same God has provided us with a way to avoid it which is through Jesus Christ.


Reality--Every mortal on earth that actually knows the true God--knows 100% for sure there is no place of eternal suffering--it was symbolism for this---As every new day dawns in Gods kingdom for eternity, those destroyed in the lake of fire will miss every single one of them. It was symbolism for the value of that loss. Likened to be eternal suffering.
But a God merciful, kind, with a God of Love-Justice, its an impossibility for eternal suffering to be literal.

Gods justice scales are uncorruptable--perfect balance

eternal suffering teaching on those scales= on one side 70-90 years of unrepented sin--- on the otherside, trillions x trillions x trillions x trillions, etc of never ending years of suffering.

see any balance--The JW teachers are 100% correct. the other teachers teach a sadist God because they do not know him.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The path obviously only can get brighter by (new) light shining( them learning truths)--And Daniel 12:4 guarantees--new light shines in the last days.
The nature of the light on a dark path does not change but the closer a person gets to the source of the light the brighter the light gets.

Believers in Jesus are the light of the world. The closer they get to the truth that is in Jesus the brighter their light shines.
 

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
The path obviously only can get brighter by (new) light shining( them learning truths)--And Daniel 12:4 guarantees--new light shines in the last days.

So "BRIGHTER" means "NEW"? So, if you have a 3-way light bulb in a lamp and you turn it on, the first click is light, the second click is a new (brighter) light and the third click is even a newer (brighter) light? Isn't it the same bulb that just gets brighter? There's nothing new about it, it just got brighter.

C.T. Russell disagrees with your reasoning.

Zion’s Watchtower – February 1881, p. 3
With God there is no variableness, neither shadow of turning, and so it is with truth; any knowledge or light coming from God must be like it’s author. A new view of truth never can contradict a former truth. “New light” never extinguishes “older light” but adds to it. …So it is with the light of truth; the true increase is by adding to, not by substituting one for another.
 

kjw47

Well-Known Member
Who is Jesus? Specifically, how did he get from heaven to earth? Describe the process in detail. Any JW is welcome to answer.


Jesus was Michael the archangel, Michael stood up for the sons of Daniel( Daniel 12:1)--The true almighty God sent Michael to the earth , born through a virgin, Mary. And was called Jesus as a mortal. And When he returns, Jesus comes with the trumpet of God( announcing his ride) and with the voice of the archangel=his voice-1Thess 4:16.
 
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