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Do you believe in the existence of dark matter and dark energy?

Do you believe in the existence of dark matter and dark energy?

  • Total voters
    25
Gambit

Gambit

Well-Known Member
leibowde84 said:
I believe in them. I have read quite a bit about them, and the best minds that are experts in Quantum Physics seem to think that they exist. But, because they are so small (if an atom was the size of the visible universe, a string would be the size of a tree), we likely won't be able to know much about them beyond theory.
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String theory is only hypothetical. In fact, I'm not sure if it is even testable
 
leibowde84

leibowde84

Veteran Member
Gambit said:
String theory is only hypothetical. In fact, I'm not sure it is even testable
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It is only a theory. It has not come close to the level of being considered a scientific theory, to the best of my knowledge. But, I could be wrong about that. But, it is verifiable theoretically I believe. But, that in no way means that there won't be advances in understanding. In other words, it isn't just an educated guess either.
 
George-ananda

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
leibowde84 said:
I see, and I apologize for my confusion, but I don't think that "senses" are a good dividing point, simply because there are things that exist that we cannot experience with our senses, but are still "material".
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True, but by 'senses' I also mean their extensions with physical instruments.
 
leibowde84

leibowde84

Veteran Member
Gambit said:
Apparently, you don't know the difference between a scientific hypothesis and a scientific theory.
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I understand them well, actually. Apparently you don't understand what the word "inference" means.

in·fer·ence
ˈinf(ə)rəns/
noun
  1. a conclusion reached on the basis of evidence and reasoning.
 
leibowde84

leibowde84

Veteran Member
Gambit said:
Apparently, you don't know the difference between a scientific hypothesis and a scientific theory.
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A scientific hypothesis is based on "reasoning" and "evidence". Insufficient evidence/observation to graduate to the level of a scientific theory, but that doesn't mean that they don't make inferences in order to create both scientific hypotheses and theories.
 
Gambit

Gambit

Well-Known Member
Deathbydefault said:
I believe I know quite a lot on this subject.
I believe that my findings on said subject validate my belief.
I believe that you do not know nearly enough about this subject to claim that it is "not very well-defined".
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The bottom line is that dark matter, dark energy, and strings are hypothetical. They have not been scientifically validated through a testable experiment.
 
Gambit

Gambit

Well-Known Member
George-ananda said:
I'm thinking his point might be that many people will say they believe in dark matter on one hand without proof; but then say the don't believe in any paranormal or spiritual things because they need proof. But proponents of spiritual/paranormal are using arguments from inference too just like the dark matter proponents. I think that might be the point.
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Bingo!
 
Gambit

Gambit

Well-Known Member
jonathan180iq said:
You can try and argue that it's just a guess not based on validation, but you'd be totally wrong... It's your call though.
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You're another individual who doesn't understand the difference between a scientific hypothesis and a scientific theory.
 
George-ananda

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
Gambit said:
What about ESP (extrasensory perception)?
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I think the mechanism by which ESP occurs involves thought waves outside of our three-dimensional world. So the discussion then becomes what definition of 'supernatural' do you accept and nobody agrees well on definitions.
 
Gambit

Gambit

Well-Known Member
leibowde84 said:
I understand them well, actually. Apparently you don't understand what the word "inference" means.

in·fer·ence
ˈinf(ə)rəns/
noun
  1. a conclusion reached on the basis of evidence and reasoning.
Click to expand...

Metaphysical beliefs are based on inference.
 
Gambit

Gambit

Well-Known Member
George-ananda said:
I think the mechanism by which ESP occurs involves thought waves outside of our three-dimensional world. So the discussion then becomes what definition of 'supernatural' do you accept and nobody agrees well on definitions.
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Do these "thought waves" encode information?
 
Gambit

Gambit

Well-Known Member
jonathan180iq said:
Dark Matter is another thing entirely - it's an invisible force that causes objects to behave in ways that normal physical gravitational models cannot predict. Something is obviously causing this effect, not just on individual objects but on the Universe as a whole. We call that force Dark Matter. To reject that Dark Matter exists is to deny direct observations and mistakes in math in otherwise flawless equations.

This lame attempt at correlating scientific understanding with faith in the supernatural is just very weak.
You'd be better served barking up a different tree.
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If a theory doesn't make a testable prediction (regardless of the math employed), then it only qualifies as a metaphysical theory (not a scientific theory). If a theory makes a testable prediction that has not yet been verified, then it only qualifies as a scientific hypothesis (not a scientific theory).

The bottom line is that you believe in hypothetical entities for which we have no scientific verification.
 
Gambit

Gambit

Well-Known Member
Skwim said:
As noted, "believe in" has the connotation of faith. I don't have faith that dark matter and dark energy exist.
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You believe in the existence of hypothetical entities. No amount of word play will change that. :rolleyes:
 
Gambit

Gambit

Well-Known Member
Revoltingest said:
I believe that there are causes for what we observe.
There has been some validation, eg, mapping dark matter.
But since it's all so new, & I don't understand anything but the very basics, my "belief" is tentative.
Pretty weak, ain't I?
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Agreed.

"O ye of little faith" Matthew 6:30
 
Gambit

Gambit

Well-Known Member
Red Economist said:
I decided to go with my materialist philosophical preconceptions rather than the science.

So far I'm the only 1 out of 15 to say 'no'. I am the 6.7%

Hurrah for materialist dogma! :D
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So, you don't consider "dark matter" to be really material?
 
Gambit

Gambit

Well-Known Member
Thorbjorn said:
I can accept and believe that dark matter and dark energy exist. I just can't get my head wrapped around the idea of zero- or one-dimensional objects. Not that I don't believe they exist, I just can't understand it.
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Strings are one-dimensional objects. Point particles are zero-dimensional objects. IMHO, both qualify as mathematical objects (not physical or material objects at all).
 
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