Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
If the word is attached to legal definitions, it wouldnt make logical sense to call something what it is not.
If marriage has no legalness involve, I shouldnt see why not.
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Gay "Marriage" Made Legal?
- Thread starter whynotbrightstar
- Start date
If marriage has no legalness involve, I shouldnt see why not.
muichimotsu
Holding All and None
That's why the qualifier civil marriage would be important. Or we could just go the route of fundamentalists and try calling it matrimony, which I'd acknowledge is a more religious connotation and context, rather than marriage, which is as much secular as religious.
$20 is the cost of a marriage certificate, at least where I live.
Levite
Higher and Higher
In non-Orthodox Judaism being gay is not impermissible. It is entirely okay and accepted. I have many friends and colleagues who are progressive Christian ministers who would say the same of their branches of Christianity.
Personally, I believe God wants people to love one another, and doesn't want people to be alone and miserable. I believe that God would never create gay people as they are only to condemn them to either inevitable sin or inevitable misery. Because I believe God is never intentionally cruel, and is always compassionate and merciful.
I also believe that fundamentalism and textual literalism is infinitely more harmful than anyone's sexual orientation.
And, in addition to my feelings as a Liberal Jew and a rabbi, I would also note that people's religious beliefs should have zero relation to the laws of the United States as they are made by Congress or state legislatures, or decided by the courts and Supreme Court. We have separation of religion and state in this country, and for good reason.
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Skwim
Veteran Member
But what is the cost of a marriage license? Where I live it's $58.00. Certificates are $20.00.
TheInfiniteLight
Member
It doesn't affect religion. For example any politician that would force the catholic church to perform gay marriages would not be politician for very long.
Bunyip
pro scapegoat
Yeah, I don't think there has even been a movement to force the Churches to do anything. This is about the Churches trying to enforce their beliefs on society in general - not the other way around.
TheInfiniteLight
Member
Definitely. the only compromise that should be made with churches, concerning gay marriage, is that they will not be forced to perform gay marriage.
Deathbydefault
Apistevist Asexual Atheist
It needs to be made clear that gay marriage does not effect other constitutional rights.
Churches cannot be forced to marry a gay couple.
Churches will not be hounded after and taxed if they deny a gay union.
Gay marriage does not take away the freedom of speech or protest.
Anyone who thinks otherwise is an absolute moron, IMO.
I've heard that gay marriage being passed has been compared to, 9/11, Hitler and the Nazi's,
Pearl Harbor, slavery, and many other things.
It isn't anywhere near that bad.
And for anyone who's saying "OMG now America is doomed!!!"
How come other countries have had this legalized for years with no spiritual consequence?
Gay marriage has been legal in Canada for over a decade now.
Get over it.
Your rights are not being taken away.
America isn't "denying Christianity and throwing out the bible".
One last point, Leviticus 18 & 20 (if I remembered correctly).
Only section of the bible that flat out says homosexuals are bad.
So if you Christians are gonna preach that "gays ruin our country" then you better follow all of Leviticus.
Lest you be called a "cherry picking narrow-minded homophobic bigot".
Churches cannot be forced to marry a gay couple.
Churches will not be hounded after and taxed if they deny a gay union.
Gay marriage does not take away the freedom of speech or protest.
Anyone who thinks otherwise is an absolute moron, IMO.
I've heard that gay marriage being passed has been compared to, 9/11, Hitler and the Nazi's,
Pearl Harbor, slavery, and many other things.
It isn't anywhere near that bad.
And for anyone who's saying "OMG now America is doomed!!!"
How come other countries have had this legalized for years with no spiritual consequence?
Gay marriage has been legal in Canada for over a decade now.
Get over it.
Your rights are not being taken away.
America isn't "denying Christianity and throwing out the bible".
One last point, Leviticus 18 & 20 (if I remembered correctly).
Only section of the bible that flat out says homosexuals are bad.
So if you Christians are gonna preach that "gays ruin our country" then you better follow all of Leviticus.
Lest you be called a "cherry picking narrow-minded homophobic bigot".
Harmonious
Well-Known Member
Oddly, I am of two minds in this matter. Religiously, I agree with you. The idea of homosexual marriage doesn't work for me, as you have stated, it is a slap in the face to my religion.
But the other side of the coin is thus: I have the freedom to believe in the religion of my choice. I have the choice to NOT be a Protestant Christian, which is the majority religion (or set of religions) that is represented in the U.S. government. I can tell you that my simply existing as a Jew who has no interest in Jesus as my "christ" and savior is a slap in the face of several religions. I can tell you that the fact that I don't prostrate myself to the ground in prayer five times a day is a slap in the face of a different religion.
Why should these religions dictate my behavior, or have an impact on my belief? My belief is valid, and I'm not hurting anyone by adhering to my religion. And homosexuals who choose to be married have the same freedom of choice of religion to not adhere to religions that would denounce their relationships.
But that is only part of the issue.
The fact is that homosexuals choosing to be married isn't simply a religious choice. Marriage is a government sponsored privilege, or right that comes with all kinds of benefits. It comes with the benefit of spousal protection when it comes to witnesses in a court of law. It comes with the benefit of having the right of "next of kin" for hospital visitation and insurance claims. It comes with the benefit of tax perks, when filing jointly with a spouse. There are all KINDS of benefits that come from being married.
If the Supreme Court ruling offends you, perhaps you should stop and realize what choices YOU are NOT forced to make.
dawny0826
Mother Heathen
I can't answer this for other people. I was already his life partner whether we married or not. And, I believed our union to be blessed,whether we had a marriage license to show for it or not.
I wanted everything I could have with him. I wanted to share his last name and to enjoy the legal benefits of marriage.
For me, yes. Our union would have been no less sacred had we not taken those steps. But, from a practical standpoint, there was no logical reason not to. It would have pained us both deeply had we been denied that opportunity because of our sexuality.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Thank you. That is beautiful. Women tend to want the full enchilada. Makes if kinda hard for me to tell them not yet.
One day, I guess.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
That is so well spoken. Well said.
Harmonious
Well-Known Member
Thank you.
Monk Of Reason
༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
That's right all, the years of argument is finally over with the USA government giving into Gay "Marriage". But the question that is still on my mind is at what cost?
I feel as if gay "marriage" is a slap to the face for religion everywhere. In every religious beliefs being gay is impermissible. It's not okay or accepted. I understand that we all make bad deeds and sin for ourselves; but this is literally messing with the words of God in almost every religion.
Marriage is a religious and special bond made between women and man that is blessed by God. If God does not like gays, god will not want them to be able to have this bond that he has created. Why have the gays wanted to take over and even change the meaning of the word "marriage?"
I believe that if they wanted something "like" marriage then they should have made their own thing. Maybe call it a "partnership." What they have is not a marriage at all. It doesn't matter if they change the definition of the word. It will remain the same to the true belivers of every religion. They shouldn't change the meaning of words just to suit the means of a minority.
I find "Gay Marriage" to be disrespectful and upsetting. All they had to do was give it another name to make it okay or acceptable and I promise you it wouldn't have taken so long for people to give in. It's almost like renaming a holy book because a small group of people didn't like the name anymore or calling it "The Gay Church," "The Gay Mosque," "The G*y God." It taking our beliefs and soiling them.
I honestly have nothing against gay people themselves, but this was not a very wise or respectful thing to go and change, but I guess as times change so do people. I don't usually speak up about my feelings on such a touchy subject, but this bothers me a lot. I don't believe myself to be the only one who sees this as them tampering with our beliefs in this "moment" in history.
The only reason why you seem to be upset is that you seem to think that marriage is a strictly religious affair. Just because it has been in western culture for a while doesn't mean that is exactly what it is. Marriage existed in several different (all different actually) cultures without any sort of Judeo influence what so ever. Secular marriages are just as legitimate as religious ones. In fact a "religious" marriage and a "secular" marriage should be kept distinctly seperate. The main reason is that if you want to say that the marriages made by the state are in some way defacing your concept of marriage through your religion then that would indicate that you feel that your religion is in some way dominated by the government. This is simply not true.
There won't be any "christian marriages" that are gay unless the pastor or priest marrying them is alright with it. No one can force a church to preform a marriage that they don't agree with.
dgirl1986
Big Queer Chesticles!
Point 1 - Stop calling it gay marriage. It is just marriage. It is not just for gay people but for people of all kinds.
Point 2 - I presume by a slap to the face of religion you mean your religion? I would only consider this a slap to the face of religion if they were forced to marry them in a religious sense rather than what is actually is. A secular marriage.
Point 2 - I presume by a slap to the face of religion you mean your religion? I would only consider this a slap to the face of religion if they were forced to marry them in a religious sense rather than what is actually is. A secular marriage.
Aquitaine
Well-Known Member
That's right all, the years of argument is finally over with the USA government giving into Gay "Marriage". But the question that is still on my mind is at what cost?
I feel as if gay "marriage" is a slap to the face for religion everywhere. In every religious beliefs being gay is impermissible. It's not okay or accepted. I understand that we all make bad deeds and sin for ourselves; but this is literally messing with the words of God in almost every religion.
Marriage is a religious and special bond made between women and man that is blessed by God. If God does not like gays, god will not want them to be able to have this bond that he has created. Why have the gays wanted to take over and even change the meaning of the word "marriage?"
I believe that if they wanted something "like" marriage then they should have made their own thing. Maybe call it a "partnership." What they have is not a marriage at all. It doesn't matter if they change the definition of the word. It will remain the same to the true belivers of every religion. They shouldn't change the meaning of words just to suit the means of a minority.
I find "Gay Marriage" to be disrespectful and upsetting. All they had to do was give it another name to make it okay or acceptable and I promise you it wouldn't have taken so long for people to give in. It's almost like renaming a holy book because a small group of people didn't like the name anymore or calling it "The Gay Church," "The Gay Mosque," "The G*y God." It taking our beliefs and soiling them.
I honestly have nothing against gay people themselves, but this was not a very wise or respectful thing to go and change, but I guess as times change so do people. I don't usually speak up about my feelings on such a touchy subject, but this bothers me a lot. I don't believe myself to be the only one who sees this as them tampering with our beliefs in this "moment" in history.
Personally, I couldn't care less about any religious people who're offended by gay marriage. The religious have had centuries of privilage, forcing their ideologies and customs on to others.
It's about time that their demands are no longer pandered to, especially when such demands harm minorities.
So, mind your own business and suck it up.
leibowde84
Veteran Member
Civil marriage has nothing to do with religion or religious beliefs. It is a legal marriage recognized by the State. No Church is going to be forced to recognize or perform any same-sex marriage. If the discrimination cases get through, they won't be able to fire anyone because of their sexual orientation, but that is still yet to come. So, in short, this is nothing but a straw man propped up by the false assumption that "civil marriage" has anything to do with God (at least according to the Government). Religious marriage is still alive and well and is unaffected by this ruling.That's right all, the years of argument is finally over with the USA government giving into Gay "Marriage". But the question that is still on my mind is at what cost?
I feel as if gay "marriage" is a slap to the face for religion everywhere. In every religious beliefs being gay is impermissible. It's not okay or accepted. I understand that we all make bad deeds and sin for ourselves; but this is literally messing with the words of God in almost every religion.
Marriage is a religious and special bond made between women and man that is blessed by God. If God does not like gays, god will not want them to be able to have this bond that he has created. Why have the gays wanted to take over and even change the meaning of the word "marriage?"
I believe that if they wanted something "like" marriage then they should have made their own thing. Maybe call it a "partnership." What they have is not a marriage at all. It doesn't matter if they change the definition of the word. It will remain the same to the true belivers of every religion. They shouldn't change the meaning of words just to suit the means of a minority.
I find "Gay Marriage" to be disrespectful and upsetting. All they had to do was give it another name to make it okay or acceptable and I promise you it wouldn't have taken so long for people to give in. It's almost like renaming a holy book because a small group of people didn't like the name anymore or calling it "The Gay Church," "The Gay Mosque," "The G*y God." It taking our beliefs and soiling them.
I honestly have nothing against gay people themselves, but this was not a very wise or respectful thing to go and change, but I guess as times change so do people. I don't usually speak up about my feelings on such a touchy subject, but this bothers me a lot. I don't believe myself to be the only one who sees this as them tampering with our beliefs in this "moment" in history.
averageJOE
zombie
leibowde84
Veteran Member
Very true. Constitutionality is not up to the majority. That is the entire purpose of the Constitution ... to protect minorities from the majority.