The Buddha Explains Universal Mind

atanu · Jun 21, 2015

Spiny Norman said:
I'm still not clear what you mean by a consciousness "beyond" the aggregates, given that consciousness is itself an aggregate.

You are confused because of different understanding of the word 'Consciousness'. Can experience of void happen without consciousness?

You are confused because the Sanskrit word used in original sutras is vijnana (vinnana in Pali) and not consciousness, as translated most commonly. Consciousness in its non dual root aspect is called prajnana in Sanskrit (panna in Pali).

Vijnana is a compound word made of vi (divided) and jnana (knowledge). Prajnana is made of pra (pre) and jnana (knowledge). Vijnana and prajnana both together constitute the principle of awareness/consciousness.

Is experience of void possible in absence of a jnana (knowledge) principle being inherent in the void?

godnotgod · Jun 21, 2015

YmirGF said:
I was giving you a rather large clue. If you know anything about Vaisnava thought you might be able to piece it together. Non-duality does not mean quite the same thing to them as it does to you.

You keep beating around the bush. Can you, or can't you, tell us why you think the self is real? I don't care what Vaisnava thought says about it; I want to know why YOU think the self is real.

godnotgod · Jun 21, 2015

YmirGF said:
Your arrogance truly knows no limits. If that shift in consciousness made me sound like you then I'd much rather be sitting around with the shadows of shadows...

You see? Still attacking the pointing finger, while providing no substantive response, because you have none! So I will take your non-response as "I don't understand Vivekenanda's statement because my conditioned awareness won't allow me to recognize it as being true."

YmirGF · Jun 21, 2015

atanu said:
Ha ha. Which would however mean that somethings are out of you? He he.

Though, in some terms, I am a universe unto myself, I am not THE universe.

YmirGF · Jun 21, 2015

godnotgod said:
You keep beating around the bush. Can you, or can't you, tell us why you think the self is real? I don't care what Vaisnava thought says about it; I want to know why YOU think the self is real.

I could not explain why I see the self as a distinct reality in under 10,000 words. I'm just not into doing that for you. IF you understood anything about Vaisnava thought, as I said, it would give a HINT at what I am expressing... as what I perceive now is not what Vaisnava thought teaches.

godnotgod · Jun 21, 2015

Spiny Norman said:
GNG continually refers to "Cosmic Consciousness" and it's clearly central to his belief system, but he refuses to say what he actually means by it. I think that's very odd.

In a nutshell, CC is the realization of oneness with the universe, rather than identifying with the limited self known as 'I', which sees the universe as some 'other'.

godnotgod · Jun 21, 2015

Spiny Norman said:
No, for the squirrel there is just the nut.
Then the squirrel buries the nut and later in the year digs it up, hence:
"First there is a nut, then there is no nut, then there is".

Cute, but silly.

godnotgod · Jun 21, 2015

YmirGF said:
Though, in some terms, I am a universe unto myself, I am not THE universe.

Where does your universe end and the THE universe begin?

You are still thinking 'yours and mine', 'this and that', in typical dualistic fashion.

If you understood that everything is consciousness, you would also understand that you ARE the universe as well. Only when we are fooled by the illusion of form do we discriminate 'this' as opposed to 'that'. The Buddha was not so fooled, hence:

'form is emptiness;
emptiness is form'

'You are not just the drop in the ocean; you are the Mighty Ocean itself."
Rumi

Rick O'Shez · Jun 21, 2015

godnotgod said:
Still attacking the pointing finger...

Please, make it stop, I can't take any more of the pointing fingers!!

godnotgod · Jun 21, 2015

YmirGF said:
I could not explain why I see the self as a distinct reality in under 10,000 words. I'm just not into doing that for you. IF you understood anything about Vaisnava thought, as I said, it would give a HINT at what I am expressing... as what I perceive now is not what Vaisnava thought teaches.

Stop mystifying the issue with smokescreens! Tell us why the self is real in 50 words or less.

Rick O'Shez · Jun 21, 2015

godnotgod said:
In a nutshell, CC is the realization of oneness with the universe, rather than identifying with the limited self known as 'I', which sees the universe as some 'other'.

From this it sounds like CC is the experience of abandoning self view, and not some kind of consciousness which "permeates" the universe.

And yet above you say: "If you understood that everything is consciousness....", which seems to contradict this.

So which is it? A proper definition or explanation of CC is still needed

godnotgod · Jun 21, 2015

Spiny Norman said:
No, for the squirrel there is just the nut.
Then the squirrel buries the nut and later in the year digs it up, hence:
"First there is a nut, then there is no nut, then there is".

or....

'first there is Cosmic Consciousness;
then there is no Cosmic Consciousness;
then there is'

(the second part is where Spiny is at)

Makaranda · Jun 21, 2015

I did not claim that stilling the mind leads to the understanding of non-duality....I say that stilling the mind leads to the realization of non-duality..

So swap the word understanding with the word realization. My point still stands. Why quibble with words?

Non-duality is not an experience...but if that is your claim...what is experiencing it?

This wasnt my claim.

Samadhi means different things to different traditions....what is your definition?

Mind free from the triputi of knower, means of knowledge, and known object. The reflected consciousness in the mind becomes revealed in its pure state. This is according to Advaita but I dont insist that others must interpret the experience in the same way.

godnotgod · Jun 21, 2015

Spiny Norman said:
So CC is the experience of abandoning self view, and not some kind of consciousness which "permeates" the universe?

In the dissolution of 'self view', universal view becomes apparent, unless, of course, one is still laboring under self-view, but thinking he is not.

Rick O'Shez · Jun 21, 2015

godnotgod said:
then there is no Cosmic Consciousness;
then there is'

You still haven't provided a coherent definition of Cosmic Consciousness. One minute you're talking about everything being consciousness, the next about abandoning self-view, it's a muddle.

You need to provide a coherent definition of "Cosmic Consciousness". Are you saying that everything is consciousness, or that consciousness permeates the universe, or that it's the experience of abandoning self view, or what exactly?

Are you even capable of explaining clearly what you believe? I'm beginning to wonder.

Rick O'Shez · Jun 21, 2015

godnotgod said:
In the dissolution of 'self view', universal view becomes apparent, unless, of course, one is still laboring under self-view, but thinking he is not.

And what does this "universal view" actually look like? What is your actual experience of it?

godnotgod · Jun 21, 2015

Spiny Norman said:
Only when it's being pointed in the wrong direction. I'm fed up with the continual cliched references to pointing fingers, it's too often used as a cop-out by people who can't explain themselves clearly and then get defensive when the inadequacy of their explanation is pointed out. It's often also said in a rather arrogant way, "How dare you suggest that I'm pointing in the wrong direction!"

The finger isn't pointing in the wrong direction; you're just looking in the wrong direction.

Rick O'Shez · Jun 21, 2015

godnotgod said:
The finger isn't pointing in the wrong direction; you're just looking in the wrong direction.

It's just a tired cliche and a cop out.

godnotgod · Jun 21, 2015

Spiny Norman said:
And what does this "universal view" actually look like? What is your actual experience of it?

It doesn't taste like chicken.

godnotgod · Jun 21, 2015

Spiny Norman said:
It's just a tired cliche and a cop out.

It's always a refreshing experience for me. Maybe the problem lies in your conditioned mentality, which preconceives the experience, rendering a jaded view.

The Buddha Explains Universal Mind

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