Action in Taoism

I'm reading the Tao Te Ching and I noticed what looks to my unlearned mind like a contradiction.

In verse (is that what we call them, verses?) 63 says "Taking things lightly results in great difficulty. Because the wise always confront difficulties, they never experience them."
In the next verse it says "Deal with things before they happen. Put things in order before there is confusion."
But then it says, in the same verse, Those who act defeat their own purpose...The wise do not act and so are not defeated."

I'm left wondering what the Taoist view on action and struggle is. I know that the Tao Te Ching emphasizes action through non-action, but it looks to me like there is a little bit of contradiction between that concept and some of the stuff I mentioned above.

Are there commentaries on Taoist texts that clarify things like this? Are there any people here who can clear this up for me?

Thanks

I really might not be a reliable source here, just taking a wild swing, so don't take my word for it

When I read that, it seems like they might be from two different angles perhaps? "Deal with things before they happen Put things in order before there is confusion" maybe means to prepare for what is coming ahead, to observe it and understand it before it arrives? In that way when it comes, you're already ready for it.

Perhaps "Those who act defeat their own purpose... The wise do not act and so are not defeated" This sounds like to me at least that it's talking about acceptance of all that passes.

So what I personally got out of it is to know what's coming, to be ready for it, and accept the outcome.

Greetings JRMcC, with your indulgence I would like to see if I can help with your query.


In the first quote I believe it is saying that ("Taking things lightly") ignoring a problem ("results in great difficulty") lets it become a problem.
("Because the wise always confront difficulties") Acknowledging a problem exists and dealing with it at the beginning ("they never experience them.") prevents them from becoming difficult problems.

I think when reading the Tao the entire stanza should be considered. The translation similar to the the one you may be quoting (by Gia-fu Feng and Jane English) is as follows:


I believe it is a great example of Wu Wei. By being aware of events that are in motion, or better yet before they are in motion, and not focusing on superfluity then the Wise can help foster that into being which is in accordance with the Tao. This is done by not acting against things but directing (with) them. The stanza prior to this one speaks of just that.


I hope my imperfect take on this is of some benefit.

I wish you the best.

JRMcC said:

I'm reading the Tao Te Ching and I noticed what looks to my unlearned mind like a contradiction.

In verse (is that what we call them, verses?) 63 says "Taking things lightly results in great difficulty. Because the wise always confront difficulties, they never experience them."
In the next verse it says "Deal with things before they happen. Put things in order before there is confusion."
But then it says, in the same verse, Those who act defeat their own purpose...The wise do not act and so are not defeated."

I'm left wondering what the Taoist view on action and struggle is. I know that the Tao Te Ching emphasizes action through non-action, but it looks to me like there is a little bit of contradiction between that concept and some of the stuff I mentioned above.

Are there commentaries on Taoist texts that clarify things like this? Are there any people here who can clear this up for me?

Thanks

Click to expand...

the tao te ching doesn't claim to be infallible , so contradiction is no big deal...if it is one.

not a contradiction wise do not act they are ready cause they planned

JRMcC said:

I'm reading the Tao Te Ching and I noticed what looks to my unlearned mind like a contradiction.

In verse (is that what we call them, verses?) 63 says "Taking things lightly results in great difficulty. Because the wise always confront difficulties, they never experience them."
In the next verse it says "Deal with things before they happen. Put things in order before there is confusion."
But then it says, in the same verse, Those who act defeat their own purpose...The wise do not act and so are not defeated."

I'm left wondering what the Taoist view on action and struggle is. I know that the Tao Te Ching emphasizes action through non-action, but it looks to me like there is a little bit of contradiction between that concept and some of the stuff I mentioned above.

Are there commentaries on Taoist texts that clarify things like this? Are there any people here who can clear this up for me?

Thanks

Click to expand...

Which translation are you using if I may ask?
Some translators are more successful than others at conveying the original intent (or so I am told).
My version by John C.H. Wu (a renowned scholar) does not word things that way at all...

Instead it says:
"He who thinks everything easy will end by finding
everything difficult.
Therefore, the Sage, who regards everything as difficult,
Meets with no difficulties in the end."

and then:
"Tackle things before they have appeared...
He who fusses over anything spoils it.
He who grasps anything loses it.
The Sage fusses over nothing and therefore spoils
nothing.
He grips at nothing and therefore loses nothing."

That's not to say that this version is superior (I am unsure which you are using) but it can often help to read
more than one translation to better understand a language so complex and different from English as Chinese.

If you are interested, the version I use is can be found for free here: Tao Te Ching, English by John V. H. Wu, Terebess Asia Online (TAO)

Iti is also correct in saying that the TTC does not claim infallibility.
If there ultimately seems to be a contradiction in your eyes, then that's okay.

I'm sorry I didn't have any profound insights of my own to offer, but I hope that perhaps
it was of some help to you.

Peace and blessings my friend,
I wish you well.

I think it means to see things the way they are, be more of a observer, just watching, but not getting involved, which the mind likes to do.

WayFarer said:

I hope my imperfect take on this is of some benefit.

Click to expand...

Lots of benefit, thanks!