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Voting Against Marriage Amendments

The Pledge

  • Total voters
    57
kevmicsmi

kevmicsmi

Well-Known Member
pdoel said:
While I see where you are coming from, and while that is a common comment (calling it something other than marriage), can you imagine how that would have gone over during the time of civil rights?

Blacks got to go to a "School". Why should they care if it's a different building than those of a white person. Isn't it the same thing. Heck, they had it lucky. At least it was still called "school". Maybe instead of letting them drink out of the same water fountain as a white person, we not only made it a different fountain, but then called it a "watering hole". Cause if it's a different name, then maybe more people would accept it.

Like it or not, marriages come in all shapes and sizes today. Should we start drawing the line and rescinding some of today's legal "marriages" if it doesn't fit into the definition of the majority?

Many (especially those of religion) feel the main purpose of a marriage is to provide children. So for those unions that cannot or are not willing to have children, should they be stripped of the term "marriage".

Since many feel marriage is a religious term, should we strip the term from any couple of different faiths? Or of no faiths?

The way I see it, trying to make marriage a "separate but equal" thing, and calling it something different for homosexuals is a very slippery slope. The likely hood of which could affect tens of millions of "married" couples today.

I can just imagine the looks on millions of couples' faces when they get the notice from the government "Please have children within the next 12 months or your marriage will be rescinded."
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I respect your opinion, but again, I think arguments like these hurt your cause. The difference between active persecution and discrimination against a person strictly becasuse of their race is completely different than the current argument. I agree with Evereal, this is better fought on contract law ty pe grounds.
 
Green Gaia

Green Gaia

Veteran Member
pdoel said:
I have to say, I feel like I'm being told to shut up, sit down, smile, and just wait patiently until the majority decides it's ok for me to be me.
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I don't think most people, even those on our side, realize just how frustrating this is. Putting part of your life on hold while everyone else discusses your life and how you should live it. It's very, very frustrating. And we're just supposed to grin and bear it, don't make too many waves and maybe, just maybe if you're good you'll get what you want - of course by then it may be too late.
 
Green Gaia

Green Gaia

Veteran Member
kevmicsmi said:
I agree with Evereal, this is better fought on contract law ty pe grounds.
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That would be great if it were the reality. The fact is we're being attacked on moral and religious grounds; contract law is secondary to those opposed to us. We will win in the courts on contract law grounds - eventually. But how long is that going to take? How long does a part of my life have to stay on hold?
 
E

evearael

Well-Known Member
I don't think most people, even those on our side, realize just how frustrating this is. Putting part of your life on hold while everyone else discusses your life and how you should live it. It's very, very frustrating. And we're just supposed to grin and bear it, don't make too many waves and maybe, just maybe if you're good you'll get what you want - of course by then it may be too late.
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Yes, it is frustrating, but I'm also frustrated by those pushing for rights who choose to escalate the situation. Yes, by all means fight! However, I want to see it done in a way that makes progress rather than backfiring.
 
E

evearael

Well-Known Member
We will win in the courts on contract law grounds - eventually. But how long is that going to take? How long does a part of my life have to stay on hold?
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Yes, we will win on contract law and I have no clue how long it will take. If you do not suggest a legal remedy for the denial of legal rights, then what do you suggest? You cannot legislate ones heart. Don't put your life on hold. Do everything you can to fight for what you believe in and hold tight to the one you love.
 
Green Gaia

Green Gaia

Veteran Member
evearael said:
If you do not suggest a legal remedy for the denial of legal rights, then what do you suggest?
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The legal side is being taken, it just takes so long and I'm impatient. I apologize.
 
pdoel

pdoel

Active Member
evearael said:
Yes, we will win on contract law and I have no clue how long it will take. If you do not suggest a legal remedy for the denial of legal rights, then what do you suggest? You cannot legislate ones heart. Don't put your life on hold. Do everything you can to fight for what you believe in and hold tight to the one you love.
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Here's what I would suggest. As you have said, let the courts handle it. If that's the way it goes, and the courts really look at our constitution, the way rights are given, then I think they would have no choice but to approve gay marriage. I think that right now denying it is against our constitution. A few courts have taken this stance so far.

Where the problem lies is when states try and put it on a ballet to let the people vote. And when that occurs, those of us who are for it have no choice but to state our opinion and push the matter. If we simply sit back and wait for the vote to come about and "see what happens", we aren't going to like the results.

You said it yourself. The proper way to address this is through the courts. Unfortunately, that is not what is occuring today. Maybe it's time to take these votes off the public polls, and allow the courts to handle it. If that were the case, we'd have no reason to feel the need to stand up for ourselves by pointing out the holes in many's thinking.
 
pdoel

pdoel

Active Member
Maize said:
I don't think most people, even those on our side, realize just how frustrating this is. Putting part of your life on hold while everyone else discusses your life and how you should live it. It's very, very frustrating. And we're just supposed to grin and bear it, don't make too many waves and maybe, just maybe if you're good you'll get what you want - of course by then it may be too late.
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Exactly. And as hard as it is to put your life on hold, it's even harder to listen to the reasons why people are against it. Sure, I have no problem with people being against it, or not understanding it. But just sitting back with a grin on my face while I'm called an abomination, while I'm told I'm a sinner, while I'm told I can't possibly be a Christian, while I'm told that I'm no better than someone who screws a dog or a child, that's very hard to take.

It's like just sitting there while someone punches you over and over again in the face. And if you fight back, well, that's just not acceptable. The answer is to just sit there, get the crap beat out of you, for fear of offending the person who's kicking your butt.
 
pdoel

pdoel

Active Member
Since I'm getting pretty down, and my head is now pounding from this thread. I will say this (and may drop out for a bit).

While I do not agree with some of you, whether it be your religious beliefs, or your governmental views on this issue, I will say this.

I sincerely pray that none of you ever have to fight to protect your family, or, even worse, to have to fight just to be a family.

You have no idea how painful it is. So I do hope and pray, that you never have to experience it.

:(
 
Green Gaia

Green Gaia

Veteran Member
pdoel said:
It's like just sitting there while someone punches you over and over again in the face.
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That's how I feel whenever someone says they support banning same sex marriage - like I'm getting punched in the face over and over again with each vote.

I'm getting pretty down as well, I'm not dealing with this so well today. I should go too (again) before I completely lose it.
 
Booko

Booko

Deviled Hen
Fluffy said:
I view it as a misuse of the term "homophobic" and I feel that the ramifications of this are actually counter-productive to gaining equality.
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Thanks, Fluffy.

You're very right about this. Counterproductive is actually quite an understatement.

And it's precisely because I don't care to have "homophobic" stuck on me simply because at this moment I am not 100% in agreement with every point made here that I wouldn't consider asking a milqetoast-worded question, much less express a pov. (Apparently even a 95% agreement would not be sufficient to avoid insult.)

Oh well, maybe I'll go buy someone a gift or something useful at least.

See y'all around elsewhere.
 
Booko

Booko

Deviled Hen
pdoel said:
It's kind of funny, if you think about it. Those who oppose gay marriage are offended by the term "homophobe". Yet, those of us who are homosexual, are expected to read these threads that refer to us as abominations, as sinful, as things that people will just have to "agree to disagree" on. We listen to people state their opinions on how allowing us to marry would destroy the sanctity of marriage, how God condemns anyone who accepts us, etc.

We listen to terms day in and day out, which are 10x worse than the term "homophobe", and yet, "homophoboe" is what people find offensive.

:rolleyes:
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This pretty much demonstrates my point. I get called a homophobe because people ASSUME (wrongly) that I think homosexuals are abominations, sinful, etc etc. and that somehow I think gay marriage will destroy the sanctity of marriage.

There's no listening going on in this thread, so what's the point?
 
M

Maxist

Active Member
If I were aloud to vote, then I would vote against codified descrimination. I personally hate biggotry.:verymad:
 
FerventGodSeeker

FerventGodSeeker

Believer
Booko said:
This pretty much demonstrates my point. I get called a homophobe because people ASSUME (wrongly) that I think homosexuals are abominations, sinful, etc etc. and that somehow I think gay marriage will destroy the sanctity of marriage.

There's no listening going on in this thread, so what's the point?
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To me, the problem with the term "homophobe" isn't even that it's offensive. There's plenty of worse things that people could be called. The problem is simply that it's inaccurate. I've never in my life met someone who was AFRAID or had a phobia of gay people, or homosexuality in general. I don't go run and hide under my bed shaking in fear every time I see a gay couple walking down the street. I mean, ok, the butch lesbians can be a little intimidating, LOL, jk. But other than that, is anyone actually "homophobic"?

FerventGodSeeker
 
Booko

Booko

Deviled Hen
FerventGodSeeker said:
To me, the problem with the term "homophobe" isn't even that it's offensive. There's plenty of worse things that people could be called. The problem is simply that it's inaccurate. I've never in my life met someone who was AFRAID or had a phobia of gay people, or homosexuality in general. I don't go run and hide under my bed shaking in fear every time I see a gay couple walking down the street. I mean, ok, the butch lesbians can be a little intimidating, LOL, jk. But other than that, is anyone actually "homophobic"?
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Yes, I've met a few. :(
 
pdoel

pdoel

Active Member
FerventGodSeeker said:
The problem is simply that it's inaccurate. I've never in my life met someone who was AFRAID or had a phobia of gay people, or homosexuality in general. I don't go run and hide under my bed shaking in fear every time I see a gay couple walking down the street. I mean, ok, the butch lesbians can be a little intimidating, LOL, jk. But other than that, is anyone actually "homophobic"?
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Well, the term homophobia covers more than just fear. Per Websters:

Websters said:
Homophobic
  1. Fear of or contempt for lesbians and gay men.
  2. Behavior based on such a feeling.
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Websters said:
  1. The feeling or attitude of regarding someone or something as inferior, base, or worthless; scorn.
  2. The state of being despised or dishonored; disgrace.
  3. Open disrespect or willful disobedience of the authority of a court of law or legislative body.
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So if you combine those two definitions, then, unfortunately, many more people would fall into that definition than would realize.

And as for your question on whether or not people actually fear homosexuals? Yes. Some do. Ever heard someone say something along the lines of if a guy ever looked at them twice, they'd beat the crap out of them? That stems from fear. It's funny for that many guys have no problem with catcalling at women, making obscene gestures or advances towards a woman. But if a guy ever did the same to them, they'd attack. When really, it's no different. Either way, more likely than not, it's an unwelcome advance.
 
Booko

Booko

Deviled Hen
FerventGodSeeker said:
Really? So they literally ran away or recoiled in terror at the sight of a gay person?
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Would hastily crossing the street qualify? Would leaving dinner half eaten in a restaurant when an obviously gay couple walked in qualify?

Yeah, I would think so. :(

I could give you a possible example of someone online too, but the posts were so vile they've been deleted. <whew>
 
FerventGodSeeker

FerventGodSeeker

Believer
pdoel said:
Well, the term homophobia covers more than just fear. Per Websters:
[/list]
[/list]So if you combine those two definitions, then, unfortunately, many more people would fall into that definition than would realize.
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Webster's includes definitions that are colloquial, as well. Homophobia has come to mean contempt for homosexuals or belief that homosexuality is immoral. However, it's actual meaning (note the suffix "-phobia") is a fear, intense fear of homosexuals (or actually, to be even more literal "fear of sameness").

And as for your question on whether or not people actually fear homosexuals? Yes. Some do. Ever heard someone say something along the lines of if a guy ever looked at them twice, they'd beat the crap out of them? That stems from fear.
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It can also stem from anger that someone of the same gender has possibly just hit on you, thereby assuming you were gay, or at least hoping you were....but I do see your point. I don't agree with gay marraige or gay lifestyles, but I am not a homophobe, even by the more colloquial definition. While I disagree with their lifestyle, I do believe in common decency.

FerventGodSeeker
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Green Gaia

Green Gaia

Veteran Member
FerventGodSeeker said:
While I disagree with their lifestyle, I do believe in common decency.
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What about my lifestyle do you disagree with? I get up in the morning, get my son ready for school, go to the gym and workout, come home, do some housework, maybe some gardening, coach my daughter's soccer team, teach Sunday school at my church... work, pay my taxes, drive a mini-van... just what is so alien about my "lifestyle" that warrants me not worthy of equal rights?
 
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