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Why don't jews belive Jesus was/is the messiah?

kassi

Member
AlanGurvey said:
Yet in a christian standpoint, he sends un believers of all stripe to hell, he is subject to the most basic of childish emotions "Super Universe" INFANTILE PRIDE Knockout
If you literally believed in the flood then what happened to those that did not? This same earth is being reserved for fire and destruction, christ is our only hope for salvation from destruction, our refuge.
 

kassi

Member
[
jewscout]from a jewish perspective it goes against the Torah
to say that you have to go through someone else to get to G-d places someone before Him. That is Idolitry from a halachic standpoint.
Did moses not intersede for his people and what of a life for a life, this is in the law. According to the law there must be an accounting yet the law also provides for forgiveness and cleansing through blood sacrifece, blood sacrifice is the same as an mediator.



for an observant Jew, if anything comes that says it is from G-d but contradicts the Torah, it is not G-d's word to the Jews
Jesus did not contradict the law but fullfills the law.


i don't need this one line to validate the Torah to me. Judaism's teachings of ethics and morality and the centrality of family and the belief that it takes more than a statement of faith to be a good person, it takes action, validates the Torah to me.
Do you not believe we will all have to give an account of our actions? what if its more than you can pay back? what if our actions are not enough? wouldnt it be nice to have someone to intersede on your behalf if you couldnt pay back?



a garden that condemns all non-believers to eternal hellfire and damnation is not a garden I want to live in.
If you had a field that only produced briers and thorns would it be ok to burn it?
 

Booko

Deviled Hen
kassi said:
[ Did moses not intersede for his people and what of a life for a life, this is in the law. According to the law there must be an accounting yet the law also provides for forgiveness and cleansing through blood sacrifece, blood sacrifice is the same as an mediator.
Blood sacrifice is not a "mediator." It's something God asked them to do. If I ask my children to load the dishwasher, "loading the dishwasher" is not a "mediator."

Jesus did not contradict the law but fullfills the law.
I happen to agree, but then I'm not Jewish either. And they can disagree, and I don't think they're unreasonable for doing so.

Do you not believe we will all have to give an account of our actions? what if its more than you can pay back? what if our actions are not enough? wouldnt it be nice to have someone to intersede on your behalf if you couldnt pay back?
The Jews had their means to get right with God for thousands of years before Christians came along. It's there in the Torah for anyone to read.

If you had a field that only produced briers and thorns would it be ok to burn it?
No, because it would be against the county fire ordinances.
 

SunMessenger

Catholic
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Why don't Jews believe Jesus was/is the messiah?

When children are taught the religion of their fathers it is taught as they were taught. There is no right answer to this question. There is no easy answer that is definite. I must tell what I feel at the risk of being misunderstood. Political affiliation and religion were tied very tightly together in the days of the Crucifixion. Those who were non believers were also the ones with the most to lose in those days. Those who set to have Jesus accused and murdered were certainly not of the same political affiliations. If Jesus succeeded then they may lose power. If He was killed then they could go on. Interesting period of time. Not a very merciful one. I will close with this quote ...


"Then the chief priests and the elders of the people assembled in the palace of the high priest, whose name was Caiaphas, and they plotted to arrest Jesus in some sly way and kill him. "But not during the Feast," they said, "or there may be a riot among the people."
Matthew 26

The Plot Against Jesus
 

Booko

Deviled Hen
SunMessenger said:
If Jesus succeeded then they may lose power. If He was killed then they could go on.

This is a common theme in emerging religions. You mentioned the example from Jesus' time.

Muhammad had similar problems with the Quraysh in Mecca (and some others).

The Bab, the Prophet-Herald of my religion, was martyred in a way very similar to Jesus, in that the religious leaders of His time pressured the government to kill Him.

Baha'u'llah, the Prophet-Founder of my religion, spent most of His life in a succession of exiles and imprisonments for the same reason: the religious powers that be, if He succeeded, would be out of a job.

And so it continues today. The mullahs and ayatollahs in Iran continue to persecute the Baha'is there, again, because they cling to their desire for power, wealth and prestige.

Plus ca change, la meme chose. :(
 

jewscout

Religious Zionist
again,
why don't jews believe jesus is Moshiach?
because he never accomplished the task as it is believed to be done in Judaism.

you CAN NOT superimpose the christian definition of messiah and then say that the jews should believe he is.

that's like asking why don't christians believe in Muhammed as a prophet and the Koran as divine revelation.
 

Booko

Deviled Hen
jewscout said:
again,
why don't jews believe jesus is Moshiach?
because he never accomplished the task as it is believed to be done in Judaism.

you CAN NOT superimpose the christian definition of messiah and then say that the jews should believe he is.

that's like asking why don't christians believe in Muhammed as a prophet and the Koran as divine revelation.

It might even be more like telling Christians that their scriptures corrupted and worthless, and then asking them why they don't believe in Muhammad and the Qu'ran.

That is (some) Christians tell you that Jesus is God, you can't be saved without him, and then ask you why you don't believe in Jesus. (Nevermind that Moshiach is supposed to bring in an era of peace, which sure doesn't describe the past 2000 years.)
 

Halcyon

Lord of the Badgers
kassi said:
[ Did moses not intersede for his people and what of a life for a life, this is in the law. According to the law there must be an accounting yet the law also provides for forgiveness and cleansing through blood sacrifece, blood sacrifice is the same as an mediator.
I'm sure jewscout will correct me if i'm wrong, but i thought repenting one's sins was the most powerful way to get forgiveness, and that blood sacrifice was only used for certain, often minor sins?
 

jewscout

Religious Zionist
Halcyon said:
I'm sure jewscout will correct me if i'm wrong, but i thought repenting one's sins was the most powerful way to get forgiveness, and that blood sacrifice was only used for certain, often minor sins?

whether your mode of repentance is sacrifice or prayer, it don't matter a whole hell of alot if you don't really feel bad about what you done.
 

jewscout

Religious Zionist
kassi said:
[ Did moses not intersede for his people and what of a life for a life, this is in the law. According to the law there must be an accounting yet the law also provides for forgiveness and cleansing through blood sacrifece, blood sacrifice is the same as an mediator.

ummm there is a difference between using sacrifice as a mode for a person to connect w/ G-d and then saying you HAVE to go through person A to get to G-d.
we don't have sacrifices anymore, but Jews still connect w/ G-d through prayer.



Jesus did not contradict the law but fullfills the law.
ummmm saying that he is the only way to G-d is what would be considered halachically idolitry which is a big no no

Do you not believe we will all have to give an account of our actions? what if its more than you can pay back? what if our actions are not enough? wouldnt it be nice to have someone to intersede on your behalf if you couldnt pay back?
I am a human, I faulter, but through good deeds and prayer i can repent and come back to living a life G-d wants for me. In judaism you have the ability to fix problems if you are dedicated to making things right again.

If you had a field that only produced briers and thorns would it be ok to burn it?
i think you've missed the entire point of my comment.
 
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