How can we get rid of the caste system?

I specifically put this thread in the General Religious Debates so everyone could participate. The caste system is a violation of human rights, and as humans, we should all work together to eradicate it. When I thought about this, I had no solution, but hopefully you guys will. Please post your thoughts and lets make this thread as productive as we can, above sectarian and religious boundaries.

One thing to note is that caste system only prospers in the rural and undeveloped parts of India. Maybe education and more developments can get rid of it, but India is a big country that itself is still developing, and it will take a long time.

The depressing thing is that it was far less oppressive in antiquity. One can see that from the epics and the way that foreigners who arrived in India, from ancient Greeks to medieval Parsees, were slotted in. If the Parsees were arriving today, there'd probably be angry demonstrations waving "Mleccha threat to Hinduism" banners!

axlyz said:

One thing to note is that caste system only prospers in the rural and undeveloped parts of India. Maybe education and more developments can get rid of it, but India is a big country that itself is still developing, and it will take a long time.

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Most countries have a class system really the question is how can we get rid of birthright and inheritance a harsh reality is a game of luck whom you fall out of)

I do not know India, thus I speak from subjective opinions and likely from ignorance.

I am inclined to believe that no amount of economic improvements will change the caste system. It seems to me that the caste system is heavily cultural in nature. India must change its own cast system by changing its attitudes, from the inside out; and probably by changing one mind at a time.

axlyz said:

I specifically put this thread in the General Religious Debates so everyone could participate. The caste system is a violation of human rights, and as humans, we should all work together to eradicate it. When I thought about this, I had no solution, but hopefully you guys will. Please post your thoughts and lets make this thread as productive as we can, above sectarian and religious boundaries.

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There is no shortcut. People are naturally inclined to nurture a sense of identity that is based on contrasting themselves against others, spontaneous developing caste mentality in various guises and degrees of intensity.

That can be healed, but it takes lots of effort. Fortunately, it is a very worthwhile kind of effort, based on activities that promote frequent contact and familiarity among people of various backgrounds.

I am firmly convinced that there is no better way (and perhaps no other way at all) of challenging caste mentality beyond actively dissolving the fears and insecurities that make it appealling, by expressing and returning relationships of reciprocal good will often and widely.

A large part of caste mentality is simple habit, strongly reinforced by social expectations. Those expectations must be proven shallow and unimportant. Gradually, as gradually as necessary not to cause too much disconfort, because it is of human nature to become dangerous and irrational when pressured.

axlyz said:

I specifically put this thread in the General Religious Debates so everyone could participate. The caste system is a violation of human rights, and as humans, we should all work together to eradicate it. When I thought about this, I had no solution, but hopefully you guys will. Please post your thoughts and lets make this thread as productive as we can, above sectarian and religious boundaries.

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Many Indians I know say. They don't want to end the caste system. Just caste discrimination. As a westerner it's much better to leave the solution up to Indians. Caste is a terribly complex thing. Many low caste folks get affirmative action programs and have no interest in ending caste. Some high caste Indians would love to end caste governmental identification because they believe they are being pushed out of seats in the colleges. I don't understand exactly how it works. Some Christian coverts want Included so they can get extra help from government. The whole thing is confusing and best left up to the Indians to figure out.

One more point of interest. A few years a go I was in Indian and the Christians had a riot over caste. New converts from low castes tried to go to a Church of Old time Indian Christians. They did not want those Christians around because they were of low castes. So It turned into a fight. I feel lost at trying to follow it .

The only way is for everyone to awaken, to wake up to the ego's position that makes it feel better than the other.

axlyz said:

I specifically put this thread in the General Religious Debates so everyone could participate. The caste system is a violation of human rights, and as humans, we should all work together to eradicate it. When I thought about this, I had no solution, but hopefully you guys will. Please post your thoughts and lets make this thread as productive as we can, above sectarian and religious boundaries.

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I think there are 2 things that can eradicate such a system. The first is love. If we recoginse that we are all one human family and viewed each person as our brother or sister, then caste is gone. There is no separation.
The second is respect for freewill. Nobody is born into a particular occupation or station in life. We all have the ability and right to choose our own path. So if we all respected that right and allowed each one to decide what they want to do with their life, then caste is gone. And you will find these two ideals in the bible because they are the views of our Creator.

Pegg said:

I think there are 2 things that can eradicate such a system. The first is love. If we recoginse that we are all one human family and viewed each person as our brother or sister, then caste is gone. There is no separation.
The second is respect for freewill. Nobody is born into a particular occupation or station in life. We all have the ability and right to choose our own path. So if we all respected that right and allowed each one to decide what they want to do with their life, then caste is gone. And you will find these two ideals in the bible because they are the views of our Creator.

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What about the temple priests in the Old Testament. Perfect example of caste. The high priests belonged to the Jewish priestly families that trace their paternal line back to Aaron the brother of Moses. To be King you had to be of a Royal line.

Wannabe Yogi.. said:

What about the temple priests in the Old Testament. Perfect example of caste. The high priests belonged to the Jewish priestly families that trace their paternal line back to Aaron the brother of Moses. To be King you had to be of a Royal line.

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Well they believed in anything back then, the ego was strong.

Wannabe Yogi.. said:

What about the temple priests in the Old Testament. Perfect example of caste. The high priests belonged to the Jewish priestly families that trace their paternal line back to Aaron the brother of Moses. To be King you had to be of a Royal line.

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I think its a comparison of apples with oranges.

A royal family is only one line. The isrealite kings children were the only ones to ascend to the throne as it is with the royal families around the world today. It has nothing to do with religion.

The high priest was to come from Aarons family, thats true. But all Isrealites had the same rights and all were viewed as one family regardless of which tribe the came from. Also, each Israelite was able to be whatever they wanted to be....there were no rules governing what occupation you had to be..

axlyz said:

I specifically put this thread in the General Religious Debates so everyone could participate. The caste system is a violation of human rights, and as humans, we should all work together to eradicate it. When I thought about this, I had no solution, but hopefully you guys will. Please post your thoughts and lets make this thread as productive as we can, above sectarian and religious boundaries.

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Namaste,

Great post, hopefully we get some constructive ideas instead of what usually happens which is that people just start quoting Manu Smriti to Justify Caste in Hinduism (generally done by none Hindus anyway), without any constructive ideas as how to stop/rid the birth based caste discrimination in India.

As for me i personally think that it is education but not just school type education (e.g: Maths, Science, English) but more what we would call "Dharmah Shiksha", or educating and teaching on the principals of Dharmah, as we can see in India that some well educated people may still be discriminating based on Caste. This would mean to re-evaluate the concepts of Varna (Choice of occupation/Vocation) and Jati (Community Identity) as two separate and flexible systems of societal distinctions instead of it all being reduced to "Caste", which has and is being done right now. Dharmah Shiksha would also mean to write a new Smriti for our time according to the situation and should be applicable to the Modern context, this is not the Job of the Government but the social theorist who understand Dharmah and its core principals such as Ahimsa (non harming, not causing Harm, Non violence) and Satya (Truth which is expression of reality). I also think we must support and foster the traditional Sampradayas of Hinduism who have been working to curb the discrimination based on birth for the past 300 years or so. Also the surviving texts of Dharmah (which there is more then enough) can provide us with a good and clear idea of Varna and Jati systems to ensure we don't fall into this trap again. Obviously at the ground level we need more sansthas like the Arya Samaj or divine life society and prominent people like Baba Ram dev, Shri Shri Ravi Shankar and Independent thinker like Rajiv Malhotra ect, to ensure proper dissemination of Dharmah Shiksha among the general population or academic settings.

I think this could be a start, and for those who link Caste discrimination with Hinduism, I'm a Indian Hindu born in Fiji, and live in Australia, and there is no caste among Hindus there (Fiji) or here (Australia).

Dhanyavad.

namaskaram prabhu ji's

I will follow others here who have rightly said that it is caste discrimination that we should eradicate not caste it self ,

the only way to eradicate this discrimination is for every individual to value each other for his contribution to society , ....
if we reflect upon the true Vedic system of Varnasram Dharma it provides perfectly for everyone in that there is hereditory responcibilities on those born into certain families and positions , ...if we try to abolish the caste system we remove some of those responcibilities and remove the hereditory sence of place and duty which has in the past made India great , ...what we need to abolish is the abuse of the varnasram system .
this we can do only in our own minds by respecting what each person contributes to society .

if we look at the model of society in the west it is equaly broken therefore why should Vedic peoples try to emulate it ?
we have a castless system but we still have discrimination , discrimination is born of ignorance and greed , the wealty want to hold their position of privilage and the poor lust after the good fortune which has fallen upon others , because of this greed emnity arrises , ....such emnity is born out of ignorance .

If we only realised it the true Varnasrama system is the most perfect way of ensuring that everyone is provided for , in the true Varnasrama system there are no outcastes , no untouchables this is a later corruption of Varnasrama Dharma , but true understanding of the system begins with realising that Dharma means Duty , the land owners are there to administer and provide land for the farmers and the farmers in return provide food it is a system of fair exchange and one by which every son of every farmer is gauranteed a job for life , it is only when the system is abused and someone within the system takes more than his fair share that it becomes broken , when the merchant tries to aprofitise more than he should to raise his material station in life , or the land owner exacts unfair taxes and levies , ...

so to my mind if the system is broken then we should fix it by understanding its purpose and returning it to its true nature , abbolishing it would not cure the greed and ignorance that has caused it to become broken nor would it remove the poverty which renders a poor person to be considered unclean and untouchable .

Great posts everyone! I will respond to them when I get more time, but I'm glad more people are talking about how to fix the caste system!

5% of marriages in India are now inter-caste, so there's some progress.

On the other hand, I saw that the mother of a prominent gay rights activist had put out an advert looking for a groom for her son, with 'Iyer preferable' included.

how to get rid off caste system : the caste system is built on how dark you are, so prove to brahmins most of them have between 25-75% dalit (or pure dravidian) ancestry

blackistanipaki said:

how to get rid off caste system : the caste system is built on how dark you are, so prove to brahmins most of them have between 25-75% dalit (or pure dravidian) ancestry

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I believe it is based more on social groupings than darkness of skin, although there is to some extent a correlation.

And anyway, it's not just Brahmins subjugating everybody. There's a lot of discrimination between Dalit Jatis.