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Can we prove Christ never married ???

BruceDLimber

BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member
FFH said:
You are the third Baha believer to post that. There might be a scripture in the New Testament which influenced that Baha scripture.
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For the record, the name is "Baha'i." If it'll help, "baha" means "glory," and the suffix forms the adjective, so that "Baha'i" literally means "of Glory."

I seriously doubt that there's any such New Testament passage. Not only have I never seen one (and yes, I've read it all), but the IOV Baha'i scriptures are direct Revelation from God not filtered through any previous scripture....

(Good to hear we all seem to know about that title, BTW. . . .)

Peace,

Bruce
 
FFH

FFH

Veteran Member
FFH said:
In the Dead Sea Scrolls there was a Nazorean sect called the Essenes.

Here is a direct quote from the Institute of Religious Research.

"Although marriage was considered a religious duty by most Jews (the Essenes were the exception), Jesus never married."

The quote is found on this page: [URL="http://www.irr.org/yamauchi.html"]http://www.irr.org/yamauchi.html[/URL]
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The Essenes
By:Allen Ross , Th.D., Ph.D.​


The Name of the Essenes​

The Greek name Essenoi or Essaioi is related to the Aramaic hasya, "pious", and this Aramaic word has been confirmed in the west in a Palmyrene inscription. Moreover, Philo in a couple of places connects the name with Greek hosiotas, "piety" or "holiness." So the name is an Aramaic plural of the Semitic word for "pious." The Hebrew equivalent would be hasidim, "the pious" or faithful. ​

Their Founding. The literature refers to a lawgiver who encouraged communal living and founded the Essenes; because no one was permitted to blaspheme him, he must have been a revered contemporary, perhaps the Teacher of Righteousness himself.​

Characteristics. The Essenes were ascetics. Their life was one of self-denial for the performance of virtuous acts. They had no money, no luxuries, no pleasures of love (with women); they sought contentment away from the world​

The Essenes held all things in common. They were indeed a brotherhood; all activity was for the common good of the community. When they joined they relinquished all their personal property. When they worked, their salaries were handed over to a common purse. If any were in need, they could simply take from the common supplies. And no one had a private house, for the dwellings were open to all travelers. ​

Full article can be found here:http://www.bible.org/page.asp?page_id=3975​
 
SoyLeche

SoyLeche

meh...
FFH said:
The Essenes
By:Allen Ross , Th.D., Ph.D.​


The Name of the Essenes​

The Greek name Essenoi or Essaioi is related to the Aramaic hasya, "pious", and this Aramaic word has been confirmed in the west in a Palmyrene inscription. Moreover, Philo in a couple of places connects the name with Greek hosiotas, "piety" or "holiness." So the name is an Aramaic plural of the Semitic word for "pious." The Hebrew equivalent would be hasidim, "the pious" or faithful. ​

Their Founding. The literature refers to a lawgiver who encouraged communal living and founded the Essenes; because no one was permitted to blaspheme him, he must have been a revered contemporary, perhaps the Teacher of Righteousness himself.​

Characteristics. The Essenes were ascetics. Their life was one of self-denial for the performance of virtuous acts. They had no money, no luxuries, no pleasures of love (with women); they sought contentment away from the world​

The Essenes held all things in common. They were indeed a brotherhood; all activity was for the common good of the community. When they joined they relinquished all their personal property. When they worked, their salaries were handed over to a common purse. If any were in need, they could simply take from the common supplies. And no one had a private house, for the dwellings were open to all travelers. ​

Full article can be found here:http://www.bible.org/page.asp?page_id=3975​
Click to expand...
Ok, now show that Christ was a part of the Essenes.
 
FFH

FFH

Veteran Member
This part of the article strongly suggests Jesus Christ as the founder.

Their Founding. "The literature refers to a lawgiver who encouraged communal living and founded the Essenes; because no one was permitted to blaspheme him, he must have been a revered contemporary, perhaps the Teacher of Righteousness himself".
 
SoyLeche

SoyLeche

meh...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essenes
The Essenes (es'-eenz) were followers of a religious way of living in Judaism that flourished from the 2nd century BC to the 1st century AD. Many scholars today argue that there were a number of separate but related groups that had in common mystic, eschatological, messianic, and ascetic beliefs that were referred to as the "Essenes". There are also contemporary movements which identify themselves as Essenes.
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According to this, the Essenes date back to 200 years before Christ was born - although I am far from being an expert in this.
 
K

kassi

Member
His mother is mentioned, his brothers are mentioned his apostles are mentioned an aunt and uncle are mentioned his step father is mentioned even the wife of one of the apostles and his mother in law is mentioned. He selected someone for his mother to remain with. Why did it not mention who his wife stayed with. The bible even speaks of moses wife and out of all the eyewitnesses their is not a single record of a earthly wife for christ. The fact that one is not mentioned in his case is the fact that there was no wife. The bible states that a son will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife but if christ Had an earthly wife there would be no need for another. Yet christ was not born of earth but of the spirit so also his bride must be born of spirit.
A spiritual house, the body of christ, his bride.
 
FFH

FFH

Veteran Member
Perhaps Jesus Christ founded the Essene religion, from the other side of the veil, prior to coming to earth; which was similar to when Jesus Christ founded the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, from the other side of the veil, prior to returning to earth.
 
SoyLeche

SoyLeche

meh...
FFH said:
Perhaps Jesus Christ founded the Essene religion, from the other side of the veil, prior to coming to earth; which was similar to Jesus Christ founding the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, from the other side of the veil, prior to returning to earth.
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"Perhaps" does not a proof make.
 
FFH

FFH

Veteran Member
--200BC-----100-------0-------100
--Essene----------Christ Born
--Founded

--1800AD---1900----2000----2100
----LDS----------Christ's Return
--Founded

I think this is an Interesting parallel.
 
Booko

Booko

Deviled Hen
Well, I know FFH requested a Biblical passage, but since several of us have mentioned what Baha'i writings have to say about it, and since you did put this in "general religious debates" I figured I'd just send up the actual quote to look at:


"The One who did not marry (Christ), verily He could not find an abode wherein to stay, nor could He find a place whereon to lay His head, on account of that which the treacherous had wrought."

(Compilations, Baha'i Scriptures, p. 107)
 
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FFH

FFH

Veteran Member
Booko said:
"The One who did not marry (Christ), verily He could not find an abode wherein to stay, nor could He find a place whereon to lay His head, on account of that which the treacherous had wrought."

(Compilations, Baha'i Scriptures, p. 107)
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Thank you Booko, very much, for posting this Baha'i scripture.

I think this Baha'i scripture points us to a scripture, in the Bible, which strongly suggests Jesus Christ never married.

Matthew 8: 20

And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.

Luke 9: 58

And Jesus said unto him, Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.
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Booko

Booko

Deviled Hen
FFH said:
Thank you Booko, very much, for posting this Baha'i scripture.

I think this Baha'i scripture points us to a scripture, in the Bible, which strongly suggests Jesus Christ never married.

Matthew 8: 20

And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.

Luke 9: 58

And Jesus said unto him, Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.
spacer.gif
Click to expand...

Thanks very much, FFH. I had never thought to make this connection before. One wonders if the reference in Baha'i writings is pointing to the Gospels?
 
Bishka

Bishka

Veteran Member
FFH said:
Thank you Booko, very much, for posting this Baha'i scripture.

I think this Baha'i scripture points us to a scripture, in the Bible, which strongly suggests Jesus Christ never married.

Matthew 8: 20

And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.

Luke 9: 58

And Jesus said unto him, Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.
spacer.gif
Click to expand...

I don't believe this has anything to do with being married, or would you like to try to explain this one. You cannot prove by the LDS scriptures today that He was or was not married.

Edit: This is also the strangest twisting of scripture to fit ones purpose I've ever heard...Not to be rude, but how on earth does this work?
 
FFH

FFH

Veteran Member
I realize there were exceptions, in which Essenes did marry, and even if I could prove Christ was a member, or the founder, of this faith, it would never definitely prove Christ never married, but would point us strongly in that direction.
 
SoyLeche

SoyLeche

meh...
FFH said:
I realize there were exceptions, in which Essenes did marry, and even if I could prove Christ was a member, or the founder, of this faith, it would never definitely prove Christ never married, but would point us strongly in that direction.
Click to expand...
Since you've already made up your mind, though, why are you so adamant about finding proof - especially since you have said that it shouldn't affect anyone's faith.
 
FFH

FFH

Veteran Member
Booko said:
Thanks very much, FFH. I had never thought to make this connection before. One wonders if the reference in Baha'i writings is pointing to the Gospels?
Click to expand...
Yes, there is definitely a strong connection there.
 
Bishka

Bishka

Veteran Member
FFH said:
I realize there were exceptions, in which Essenes did marry, and even if I could prove Christ was a member, or the founder, of this faith, it would never definitely prove Christ never married, but would point us strongly in that direction.
Click to expand...

Yes, that may be true, but I don't think there is any definte evidence that Christ was a Essene.
 
FFH

FFH

Veteran Member
SoyLeche said:
Since you've already made up your mind, though, why are you so adamant about finding proof - especially since you have said that it shouldn't affect anyone's faith.
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I have made up my mind that there is no definite proof in Christ being a member of the Nazarean Essenes, and some members did marry, which would leave a loophole in proving Christ never married.

It seems only the scriptures will prove that Christ never married, such as the one I posted earlier, which suggests Christ never had a permanent home, other than that of his father and mother's, and it is suggested that Christ took care of his mother, or at least stayed close to his mother, until he was crucified, at which time he handed over the care of his mother to his disciple. It is suggested that this disciple is John.

John 19: 26

When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!
 
Bishka

Bishka

Veteran Member
FFH said:
I have made up my mind that there is no definite proof in Christ being a member of the Nazarean Essenes, because some members did marry, which would leave a loophole in proving Christ never married.

It seems only the scriptures will prove that Christ never married, such as the one I posted earlier, which suggests Christ never had a permanent home, other than that of his father and mother's, and it is suggested that Christ took care of his mother, or at least stayed close to his mother, until he was crucified, at which time he handed over the care of his mother to his disciple. It is suggested that this disciple is John.

John 19: 26

When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!
Click to expand...

Not having a permanent home doesn't mean He was not married. His wife could have travled with Him. That's how elderly couples do it know a days, and how the apostles do it (usually). Their wives come with them.
 
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