Abram

Kolibri said:

Samuel and Samson were examples of how these firstborn were to sacrificed to Jehovah. It was not done by blood-letting.
Instead, the children were "brought up in the discipline and admonition (or, "instruction; guidance." Lit., "putting mind in.") of Jehovah." (Eph 6:4)
They were set on the path of dedicated service to their God.



There was a major difference between things "devoted" and things "sanctified." Things "devoted" could not be redeemed whereas things "sanctified" could be bought back. (see Le 27:19,27,30,31)
The reason for devoting could mean either a life of service or death depending on the circumstances.

Devoted to death:
"When the Canaanite king of A'rad, who dwelled in the Neg'eb, heard that Israel had come by the way of Ath'a-rim, he attacked Israel and carried away some of them as captives. So Israel made this vow to Jehovah: 'If you give this people into my hand, I will without fail devote their cities to destruction." - Numbers 21:1,2

Devoted to a life of service - dead to a culturally normal way of life:
"Then Jeph'thah made a vow to Jehovah and said: 'If you give the Am'mon-ites into my hand, then whoever comes out of the door of my house to meet me when I return in peace from the Am'mon-ites will become Jehovah's, and I will offer that one up as a burnt sacrifice." - Judges 11:30,31

His daughter was the one then ended up 'devoted'. She did not die as one condemned, but lived on as a single woman living a life a full-time service to Jehovah. (Judges 11:38-40)

With this understanding this verses in Leviticus could be rendered this way:

"But no devoted thing that a man devotes unconditionally (or "devotes to destruction.") to Jehovah from his belongings may be sold or bought back, whether from mankind or animals or the field he possesses. Every devoted thing is something most holy to Jehovah. Furthermore, no condemned (or, "devoted.") person who is set apart for destruction may be redeemed. He should be put to death without fail." - Leviticus 27:28,29

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This is pure bull - we have totally covered this subject here. It says they cannot be redeemed - but must be killed.

EZEKIEL 20:25-26 Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good and ordinances whereby they should not live; and I polluted them in their own gifts, in that they set apart all that openeth the womb (First Born),that I might destroy them, to the end that they might know that I am the Lord.


Exodus 22: 29 –Thou shalt not delay TO OFFER the FIRST of thy ripe fruits, and of thy liquors: THE FIRSTBORN OF THY SONS SHALT THOU GIVE UNTO ME.

Leviticus 27: 28, 29 Notwithstanding NO devoted thing, that a man shall devote unto the Lord of all that he hath, BOTH OF "MAN" and beast, and of the field of his possession, shall be sold or redeemed: every devoted thing is most holy unto the Lord.29 - None devoted, which shall be devoted of men shall be redeemed; BUT SHALL SURELY BE PUT TO DEATH.

Micah vi. 7: "Shall I give my first-born for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?"

“In the week's Torah portion, G-d says about the Mishkan( Tabernacle) "V'neekdash Bichvodi", I will be made holy in my honor (loosely translated). The Talmud says to read it that "I will be made holy through my honored ones" referring to Aaron's 2 son's who were killed. Their death was part of the dedication of the Mishkan…”

Hypermail Torah-Forum Archive: Re: Human Sacrifice


"... The custom of causing one's children to pass through the fire seems to have been general in the Northern Kingdom [IV (II) Kings, xvii, 17; Ezech. xxiii, 37], and it gradually grew in the Southern, encouraged by the royal example of Achaz (IV Kings, xvi, 3) and Manasses [IV (II) Kings, xvi, 6] till it became prevalent in the time of the prophet Jeremias (Jerem. xxxii, 35), when King Josias suppressed the worship of Moloch and defiled Tophet [IV (II) Kings, xxiii, 13 (10)]. It is not improbable that this worship was revived under Joakim and continued until the Babylonian Captivity …

… In other words, the Melech to whom child-sacrifices were offered was Yahweh under another name. To uphold this view appeal is made in particular to Jer., vii, 31; xix, 5, and to Ezech., xx, 25-31".- Catholic Encyclopedia

"The motive for these sacrifices is not far to seek. It is given in Micah vi. 7: "Shall I give my first-born for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?" In the midst of the disasters which were befalling the nation men felt that if the favor of Yhwh could be regained it was worth any price they could pay. Their Semitic kindred worshiped their gods with offerings of their children, and in their desperation the Israelites did the same. For some reason, perhaps because not all the priestly and prophetic circles approved of the movement, they made the offerings, not in the Temple, but at an altar or pyre called "Tapheth" (LXX.), erected in the valley of Hinnom (comp. W. R. Smith, "Rel. of Sem." 2d ed., p. 372). "Tapheth," also, was later pointed "Topheth," after the analogy of "bosheth." In connection with these extraordinary offerings the worshipers continued the regular Temple sacrifices to Yhwh (Ezek. xxiii. 39)."http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jspartid=718&letter=M#ixzz1RUY3XCSI


2Ki 17:17 And they caused their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire, and used divination and enchantments, and sold themselves to do evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger.


Eze 23:37 That they have committed adultery, and blood is in their hands, and with their idols have they committed adultery, and have also caused their sons, whom they bare unto me, to pass for them through the fire, to devour them.

2Ki 16:3 But he walked in the way of the kings of Israel, yea, and made his son to pass through the fire, according to the abominations of the heathen, whom the LORD cast out from before the children of Israel.



Jewish Ritual Murder, a Historical Investigation, written in 1941 by Hellmut Schramm, Ph.D


THE DEATH AND RESURRECTION OF THE BELOVED SON The Transformation of Child Sacrifice in Judaism and Christianity Jon D. Levenson


"Tracing from Canaanite to Christian thought the humiliations, deaths, and exaltations of sons and heirs, Levenson intrigues, astounds, and undermines many dearly held theological beliefs. This tour de force offers fascinating discussions of such matters as child sacrifice and the deity's right to the first-born; the paschal sacrifice and other Israelite rituals as symbolic substitutes for the son and heir."--A. J. Levine, Choice

I have pages of this Hebrew Child Sacrifice material.

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Kolibri said:

Biblically, without a resurrection of some kind, there is no after-life.

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But, to be resurrected as a spirit means none of the body's properties come with you. And your body IS where your memories are - locked in a ridiculously complicated web of brain fibers. Subtract the body and you subtract everything that makes you YOU. That is my whole point.

A Vestigial Mote said:

But, to be resurrected as a spirit means none of the body's properties come with you. And your body IS where your memories are - locked in a ridiculously complicated web of brain fibers. Subtract the body and you subtract everything that makes you YOU. That is my whole point.

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Even to be resurrected as a human, if the body has long been decayed, everything needs to be re-created. The body (with it's ridiculously complicated web of brain fibers) would need to be built from scratch. Whether that body is built out of dust or spirit is immaterial. But, except for those humans that have a heavenly hope that die during the last days, everyone has to wait for a resurrection. It is not something that happens automatically.

"Jesus said to them: 'Truly I say to you, in the re-creation, when the Son of man sits down on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will sit on 12 thrones, judging the 12 tribes of Israel." - Matthew 19:28

"For this is what we tell you by Jehovah's word, that we the living who survive to the presence of the Lord will in no way precede those who have fallen asleep in death; because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel's voice and with God's trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first. Afterward we the living who are surviving will, together with them, be caught away in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we will always be with the Lord." - 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17

Really is it too much for the One that can remember the name of all the stars and knows where they all are in relation to each other to recreate a person from scratch with all his identity in place?

Lift up your eyes to heaven and see.
Who has created these things?
It is the One who brings out their army by number;
He calls them all by name.
Because of his vast dynamic energy and his awe-inspiring power,
Not one of them is missing.
- Isaiah 40:26

Ingledsva said:

I have pages of this Hebrew Child Sacrifice material.

Click to expand...

I am sure you do. Historically the Israelites prior to being conquered and deported by Babylon had adopted the practice of child sacrifice from the nations they failed to exterminate or push out when they settled the Promised Land.
But this was never a feature of Jehovah's pure worship. I am certain there are pages of history regarding what the Israelites did when they apostatized. It makes perfect sense to me that the Devil would put a spin on it that would ruin Jehovah's reputation if believed.

"You must not allow any of your offspring to be offered (or "devoted; sacrificed.") to Mo'lech. You must not profane the name of your God in that way. I am Jehovah."
- Leviticus 18:21

"Shear off your uncut (or "dedicated.") hair and throw it away, and on the bare hills raise a dirge, (or "song of mourning.") for Jehovah has rejected and will abandon this generation that has infuriated him. 'For the people of Judah have done what is bad in my eyes,' declares Jehovah. 'They have set up their disgusting idols in the house that bears my name, in order to defile it. They have built the high places of To'pheth, which is in the Valley of the Son of Hin'nom, in order to burn their sons and daughters in the fire, something that I had not commanded and that had never even come into my heart.' (or "had never entered my thoughts.")"
- Jeremiah 7:29-31

"I [Jehovah] am about to bring a calamity on this place, and the ears of anyone who hears about it will tingle. It is because they abandoned me and made this place unrecognizable. In it they are sacrificing to other gods, whom they and their forefathers and the kings of Judah had not known, and they have filled this place with the blood of innocent ones. They built the high places of Ba'al in order to burn their sons in the fire as whole burnt offerings to Ba'al, something that I had not commanded or spoken of and that had never even come into my heart. (or "had never entered my thoughts.")"
- Jeremiah 19:3b-5

Kolibri said:

Even to be resurrected as a human, if the body has long been decayed, everything needs to be re-created. The body (with it's ridiculously complicated web of brain fibers) would need to be built from scratch. Whether that body is built out of dust or spirit is immaterial. But, except for those humans that have a heavenly hope that die during the last days, everyone has to wait for a resurrection. It is not something that happens automatically.

"Jesus said to them: 'Truly I say to you, in the re-creation, when the Son of man sits down on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will sit on 12 thrones, judging the 12 tribes of Israel." - Matthew 19:28

"For this is what we tell you by Jehovah's word, that we the living who survive to the presence of the Lord will in no way precede those who have fallen asleep in death; because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel's voice and with God's trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first. Afterward we the living who are surviving will, together with them, be caught away in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we will always be with the Lord." - 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17

Really is it too much for the One that can remember the name of all the stars and knows where they all are in relation to each other to recreate a person from scratch with all his identity in place?

Lift up your eyes to heaven and see.
Who has created these things?
It is the One who brings out their army by number;
He calls them all by name.
Because of his vast dynamic energy and his awe-inspiring power,
Not one of them is missing.
- Isaiah 40:26

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All of this only shows you further missing the ideas behind my questions and statements thus far. You're absolutely right about a decayed body - or even a body that has been gone for more than 5 minutes. And yes, if God is all powerful, then He surely should be able to put you all back together magically and have you awaken to a refreshed body and consciousness staring out from your freshly tuned-up eyeballs. But again - how do you, as you are now, know that this particular being will be YOU? That it will be your self, truly? You can't. Past an event during which your body is lifeless, who is to say that what is resurrected is the true you at all? Even if God remade "you"? Honestly, I don't believe that it would be. It would have conscious awareness of being a human with your name, memories, attributes, etc., and it would react as you would react - to all your family it would, functionally be "you" but what's missing is the uninterrupted processing of your unique consciousness.

In the end, the idea may be a moot point. Perhaps it is "good enough" that a being (corporeal or not) be possessed with your consciousness - whether or not there is a uniquely identifying, indestructible "you" in there somewhere. And also, "you" wouldn't know any better even if there weren't.

A Vestigial Mote said:

All of this only shows you further missing the ideas behind my questions and statements thus far. You're absolutely right about a decayed body - or even a body that has been gone for more than 5 minutes. And yes, if God is all powerful, then He surely should be able to put you all back together magically and have you awaken to a refreshed body and consciousness staring out from your freshly tuned-up eyeballs. But again - how do you, as you are now, know that this particular being will be YOU? That it will be your self, truly? You can't. Past an event during which your body is lifeless, who is to say that what is resurrected is the true you at all? Even if God remade "you"? Honestly, I don't believe that it would be. It would have conscious awareness of being a human with your name, memories, attributes, etc., and it would react as you would react - to all your family it would, functionally be "you" but what's missing is the uninterrupted processing of your unique consciousness.

In the end, the idea may be a moot point. Perhaps it is "good enough" that a being (corporeal or not) be possessed with your consciousness - whether or not there is a uniquely identifying, indestructible "you" in there somewhere. And also, "you" wouldn't know any better even if there weren't.

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Functional "you" verses/the same as Literal "you." I have thought about that personally myself when I was growing up.

I guess what convinced me that they were the same was that God's only direct creation, his son, was dead for parts of 3 days.
If the re-created Jesus was not the literal Jesus, would the arbitrator of ultimate objectivity allowed his death?
Would Jehovah been satisfied with a "copy"?

Kolibri said:

Functional "you" verses/the same as Literal "you." I have thought about that personally myself when I was growing up.

I guess what convinced me that they were the same was that God's only direct creation, his son, was dead for parts of 3 days.
If the re-created Jesus was not the literal Jesus, would the arbitrator of ultimate objectivity allowed his death?
Would Jehovah been satisfied with a "copy"?

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He could be satisfied with whatever he chose. He is God.

A Vestigial Mote said:

He could be satisfied with whatever he chose. He is God.

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I think the scriptures describe a close emotional bond between the two, a shared history.

Of all the resurrections Jesus' would have been the most extensive by far. Not just the 33 1/2 years of human life-experience, but the billions of years prior as the first of all creation.

Kolibri said:

I am sure you do. Historically the Israelites prior to being conquered and deported by Babylon had adopted the practice of child sacrifice from the nations they failed to exterminate or push out when they settled the Promised Land.
But this was never a feature of Jehovah's pure worship. I am certain there are pages of history regarding what the Israelites did when they apostatized. It makes perfect sense to me that the Devil would put a spin on it that would ruin Jehovah's reputation if believed.

"You must not allow any of your offspring to be offered (or "devoted; sacrificed.") to Mo'lech. You must not profane the name of your God in that way. I am Jehovah."
- Leviticus 18:21

"Shear off your uncut (or "dedicated.") hair and throw it away, and on the bare hills raise a dirge, (or "song of mourning.") for Jehovah has rejected and will abandon this generation that has infuriated him. 'For the people of Judah have done what is bad in my eyes,' declares Jehovah. 'They have set up their disgusting idols in the house that bears my name, in order to defile it. They have built the high places of To'pheth, which is in the Valley of the Son of Hin'nom, in order to burn their sons and daughters in the fire, something that I had not commanded and that had never even come into my heart.' (or "had never entered my thoughts.")"
- Jeremiah 7:29-31

"I [Jehovah] am about to bring a calamity on this place, and the ears of anyone who hears about it will tingle. It is because they abandoned me and made this place unrecognizable. In it they are sacrificing to other gods, whom they and their forefathers and the kings of Judah had not known, and they have filled this place with the blood of innocent ones. They built the high places of Ba'al in order to burn their sons in the fire as whole burnt offerings to Ba'al, something that I had not commanded or spoken of and that had never even come into my heart. (or "had never entered my thoughts.")"
- Jeremiah 19:3b-5

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The facts are that they practiced these things before the change to ONE God, and most continued to practice them after ONE God, and the Laws.

Hence we have all those genocide stories.

It is pure bull to say they did them only after pagan contact. That is why I included the two books for you folks to read.

Plus you just skip the verse where YHVH says -

Eze 20:18 But I said unto their children in the wilderness, Walk ye not in the statutes of your fathers, neither observe their judgments, nor defile yourselves with their idols:

EZE 20:25-26 Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good and ordinances whereby they should not live; and I polluted them in their own gifts, in that they set apart all that openeth the womb (First Born),that I might destroy them, to the end that they might know that I am the Lord.

I think that says it all.

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Ingledsva said:

EZE 20:25-26 Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good and ordinances whereby they should not live; and I polluted them in their own gifts, in that they set apart all that openeth the womb (First Born),that I might destroy them, to the end that they might know that I am the Lord.

I think that says it all.

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That does not take into account that "allowing" is often written as "causing". As the common reader today does not make that connection, the wording needs adjusted.

So I let them follow their stubborn hearts;
They did what they thought was right, (Lit., "they walked in their own counsels.")
If only my people would listen to me,
If only Israel would walk in my ways!
- Psalm 81:12,13

"Also, I swore to them in the wilderness that I would scatter them among the nations and disperse them among the lands, because they did not carry out my judicial decisions and they rejected my statutes, they profaned my sabbaths, and they followed after (Lit., "their eyes were after.") the disgusting idols of their forefathers. I also allowed them to follow regulations that were not good and judicial decisions by which they could not have life. I let them become defiled by their own sacrifices - when they made every firstborn child pass through the fire - in order to make them desolate, so that they would know that I am Jehovah." - Ezekiel 20:23-26

Kolibri said:

...

"You must not allow any of your offspring to be offered (or "devoted; sacrificed.") to Mo'lech. You must not profane the name of your God in that way. I am Jehovah."
- Leviticus 18:21

...

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By the way Leviticus 18:21 is the lead in for no Sacred Sex to Moloch, - and actually says -


Lev 18:21 And your semen don't give in copulation to MOLECH, and don't desecrate/prostitute yourself; honor Elohiym, I am YHVH

Lev 18:22 And with/for males, don't lie down in the beds/for intercourse woman, idolatry is this.

Note the strange wording, and NO "as with a" in 22.

Lev 18:23 And also with any beasts don't lay carnally, thus defiling yourself. And thus also woman shall not be employed to serve beasts in copulation. Bestiality it is!

Lev 18:30 Therefore shall ye keep mine ordinance, that ye commit not any one of these abominable customs, which were committed before you, and that ye defile not yourselves therein: I am the LORD your God.


That word translated "customs" is chuqqah - STATUTES/LAWS/RITES

Homosexuality is not a LAW-STATUTE-RITE, etc, that they PRACTICED BEFORE!!!!!


However, Sacred Sex with the Qedeshah and Qadesh WAS!!!


Lev 20:2 Again, thou shalt say to the children of Israel, Whosoever he be of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn in Israel, that giveth any of his seed unto Molech; he shall surely be put to death: the people of the land shall stone him with stones.


Lev 20:3 And I will set my face against that man, and will cut him off from among his people; because he hath given of his seed unto Molech, to defile my sanctuary, and to profane my holy name.


Lev 20:4 And if the people of the land do any ways hide their eyes from the man, when he giveth of his seed unto Molech, and kill him not:


Lev 20:5 Then I will set my face against that man, and against his family, and will cut him off, and all that go a whoring after him, to commit whoredom with Molech, from among their people.

For instance Eli’s sons with the Temple Prostitutes at Shiloh.

1 Sa 2:22 Now Eli was very old, and heard all that his sons did unto Israel; and how they had sex with the women that waited at the entrance of the Tabernacle of the congregation.

If you have read your Bible – then you know these Qadesh, the Sacred Prostitutes, were in the Hebrew Temple.


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Kolibri said:

That does not take into account that "allowing" is often written as "causing."

So I let them follow their stubborn hearts;
They did what they thought was right, (Lit., "they walked in their own counsels.")
If only my people would listen to me,
If only Israel would walk in my ways!
- Psalm 81:12,13

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Again you ignore what is said -

Walk ye not in the statutes of your fathers,

So it TELLS US these were done before by their Fathers.

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Ingledsva said:

Again you ignore what is said -

Walk ye not in the statutes of your fathers,

So it TELLS US these were done before by their Fathers.

*

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Ignoring. No.

Establishing that it was not sanctioned. They knew what their fathers did was not pleasing Jehovah, but they did it anyway.

Kolibri said:

Ignoring. No.

Establishing that it was not sanctioned. They knew what their fathers did was not pleasing Jehovah, but they did it anyway.

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You ignore the fact that they did these before the covenant with YHVH, THEN got laws saying not to do them.

They did them before, and continued to do them after the laws were put in place, and the NEW ONE GOD Hebrew then committed Genocide OVER-and-OVER-and-OVER, against those holding their old Goddess, and their old rites, etc., according to the Bible.

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Ingledsva said:

They did them before, and continued to do them after the laws were put in place

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Fable.

Ingledsva said:

Lev 18:21 And your semen don't give in copulation to MOLECH, and don't desecrate/prostitute yourself; honor Elohiym, I am YHVH

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I am not sure why you make these words bold and red. To my personal senses it seems crass. But whatever...

The Hebrew word here used is ze'ra' and it literally means "seed."

It is not always used physiologically in the scriptures. It can also be used agriculturally, as in botanical seeds, and figuratively to denote offspring.

We see other examples of seed being used to mean "offspring" at such places as Genesis 7:3; 9:9; 16:10; and 17:7-11.

Genesis 16:10 would be rather awkward sounding if we translated "seed" as "semen" in that verse.

"Then Jehovah said [to Ha'gar]: 'I will greatly multiply your offspring (Lit., "seed."), so that they will be too numerous to count."
- Genesis 16:10

Likewise Genesis 17:7-11 would be rather difficult to explain if it was translated "semen."

"This is my covenant between me and you, that you and your offspring (Lit., "seed.") after you will keep: Every male among you must get circumcised."
- Genesis 17:10

The translation you are using is rigidly translating "seed" as "semen" at Le 18:21. It does not necessarily fit. But then your posts seem to show an axe to grind when it comes to Jehovah.
"Sex slaves" seems to come up a lot in your objections. I do not know what to do about it but to defend the text from different angles every once in a while.

Kolibri said:

Fable.



I am not sure why you make these words bold and red. To my personal senses it seems crass. But whatever...

The Hebrew word here used is ze'ra' and it literally means "seed."

It is not always used physiologically in the scriptures. It can also be used agriculturally, as in botanical seeds, and figuratively to denote offspring.

We see other examples of seed being used to mean "offspring" at such places as Genesis 7:3; 9:9; 16:10; and 17:7-11.

Genesis 16:10 would be rather rather awkward sounding if we translated "seed" as "semen" in that verse.

"Then Jehovah said [to Ha'gar]: 'I will greatly multiply your offspring (Lit., "seed."), so that they will be too numerous to count."
- Genesis 16:10

Likewise Genesis 17:7-11 would be rather difficult to explain if it was translated "semen."

"This is my covenant between me and you, that you and your offspring (Lit., "seed.") after you will keep: Every male among you must get circumcised."
- Genesis 17:10

The translation you are using is rigidly translating "seed" as "semen" at Le 18:21. It does not necessarily fit. But then your posts seem to show an axe to grind when it comes to Jehovah.
"Sex slaves" seems to come up a lot in your objections. I do not know what to do about it but to defend the text from different angles every once in a while.

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My, My, My, this gets old.

Have you looked at the verse in the Hebrew?

There is no - through the fire - there.

Ze'ra H2232 also means semen, or sperm if you prefer.

Abar - means specifically to COVER - in copulation.

Chalal - also means profane, prostitute.

How interesting that we have three words connected to sex and a known God worshiped with SACRED SEX - in the same verse, - which the Bible tells us in several places - the Hebrew partook in! AND the next several verses continue KNOWN Molech Sacred Sex Practices, and says these are RITES.

Lev 18:21 And your ze'ra/semen don't give in abar/copulation to MOLECH, and don't chalal/desecrate/prostitute yourself; honor Elohiym, I am YHVH

Lev 18:22 And with/for males, don't lie down in the beds/for intercourse woman, idolatry is this.

Note the strange wording, and NO "as with a" in 22.

Lev 18:23 And also with any beasts don't lay carnally, thus defiling yourself. And thus also woman shall not be employed to serve beasts in copulation. Bestiality it is!

Lev 18:30 Therefore shall ye keep mine ordinance, that ye commit not any one of these abominable customs, which were committed before you, and that ye defile not yourselves therein: I am the LORD your God.


That word translated "customs" is chuqqah - STATUTES/LAWS/RITES

Homosexuality is not a LAW-STATUTE-RITE, etc, that they PRACTICED BEFORE!!!!!


However, Sacred Sex with the Qedeshah and Qadesh WAS!!!

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Ingledsva said:

There is no - through the fire - there.

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That I can agree with. The KJV has "through the fire" but it is not there in the Hebrew text. It is an understood part of the text that is added when some translations render this verse "allow the passing". 'Passing' through what? 2 Kings 16:3 with 2 Chronicles 28:3 makes it clear that it was child sacrifice by means of fire. That some translations have added "through the fire", while unnecessary, is not all that out of line.


Leviticus 18:21 Interlinear: And of thy seed thou dost not give to pass over to the Molech; nor dost thou pollute the name of thy God; I am Jehovah.
Leviticus 18:21 - Interlinear Bible - StudyLight.org

cover
Strong's Number 5674 Hebrew Dictionary of the Old Testament Online Bible with Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, Brown Driver Briggs Lexicon, Etymology, Translations Definitions Meanings & Key Word Studies - Lexiconcordance.com

profane
Strong's Number 2490 Hebrew Dictionary of the Old Testament Online Bible with Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, Brown Driver Briggs Lexicon, Etymology, Translations Definitions Meanings & Key Word Studies - Lexiconcordance.com

In both "cover" and "profane" neither of the definitions you are applying are the primary ones listed.

While it is true that this verse is hedged in among a list of all unlawful sexual relations, (Le 18:1-30) one thing to consider is that Jehovah considered all acts of worship to other gods on the part of the Israelites as prostitution.
He was their husband/master. (Ex 20:5; Isa 42:8)

"Shout joyfully, you barren woman who has not given birth!
Become cheerful and cry out for joy, you who never had birth pains,
For sons of the desolate one are more numerous
Than the sons of the woman with a husband," (or "master.") says, Jehovah.
....
For your Grand Maker is as your husband, (or "master.")
Jehovah of armies is his name,
And the Holy One of Israel is your Repurchaser.
He will be called the God of the whole earth.
- Isaiah 54:1,5

You are correct that Le 18:21 is about unlawful sex, but it is not discussing temple prostitutes. Giving their "seed" to Mo'lech would be an act of spiritual, not literal sex. It would be an act of disloyalty to the One they vowed to be loyal to.

Kolibri said:

That I can agree with. The KJV has "through the fire" but it is not there in the Hebrew text. It is an understood part of the text that is added when some translations render this verse "allow the passing". 'Passing' through what? 2 Kings 16:3 with 2 Chronicles 28:3 makes it clear that it was child sacrifice by means of fire. That some translations have added "through the fire", while unnecessary, is not all that out of line.


Leviticus 18:21 Interlinear: And of thy seed thou dost not give to pass over to the Molech; nor dost thou pollute the name of thy God; I am Jehovah.
Leviticus 18:21 - Interlinear Bible - StudyLight.org

cover
Strong's Number 5674 Hebrew Dictionary of the Old Testament Online Bible with Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, Brown Driver Briggs Lexicon, Etymology, Translations Definitions Meanings & Key Word Studies - Lexiconcordance.com

profane
Strong's Number 2490 Hebrew Dictionary of the Old Testament Online Bible with Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, Brown Driver Briggs Lexicon, Etymology, Translations Definitions Meanings & Key Word Studies - Lexiconcordance.com

In both "cover" and "profane" neither of the definitions you are applying are the primary ones listed.

While it is true that this verse is hedged in among a list of all unlawful sexual relations, (Le 18:1-30) one thing to consider is that Jehovah considered all acts of worship to other gods on the part of the Israelites as prostitution.
He was their husband/master. (Ex 20:5; Isa 42:8)

"Shout joyfully, you barren woman who has not given birth!
Become cheerful and cry out for joy, you who never had birth pains,
For sons of the desolate one are more numerous
Than the sons of the woman with a husband," (or "master.") says, Jehovah.
....
For your Grand Maker is as your husband, (or "master.")
Jehovah of armies is his name,
And the Holy One of Israel is your Repurchaser.
He will be called the God of the whole earth.
- Isaiah 54:1,5

You are correct that Le 18:21 is about unlawful sex, but it is not discussing temple prostitutes. Giving their "seed" to Mo'lech would be an act of spiritual, not literal sex. It would be an act of disloyalty to the One they vowed to be loyal to.

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Baloney! Anyone that goes to the Hebrew and translates out the text can see that it is as I said - about Sacred Sex - seed/sperm copulation/sex to moloch.

H5674 abar - which they are translating - through - says - specifically to cover (in copulation,) - thus sex again. (and it actually uses the word SPECIFICALLY!)

The major words have sex connections because it is talking about Sacred Sex.

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Ingledsva said:

Sacred Sex

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What is a sacred sex?
Regards

paarsurrey said:

What is a sacred sex?
Regards

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They had Sacred People that acted out the idea of Creation from God and Goddess coming together sexually.

They did this in the Temples as worship to Molech, as well as other Gods.

The Hebrew also brought this Sacred Sex into the Temple, which made it IDOLATRY, and according to Leviticus, - worthy of death.

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