• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Watchtower Governing Body: Are They The Exclusive Channel For God??

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
If they have already died, like the criminal who died alongside Jesus.... they will "be with me in paradise" Luke 23:43

So please explain why we even have to acknowledge God in this life? If we die before judgment day we're cool, we will get a second chance.
 

katiemygirl

CHRISTIAN
="Pegg, post: 4319098, member: 23994"]No i didnt. I said that God has been forgiving mankind since before the time that Christ gave his life as a ransom for sins.
Pegg, in post #1652, I asked you if the blood of bulls and goats could take away sin. That was the question I asked you, and you answered, "That's right. That's what I'm saying. Please go back and look for yourself.

Here it is.

Katie said: Are you saying it was possible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sin?
Do you not see a difference between forgiveness in the OT and the NT?
See Hebrews 10
The author says sacrifices can never take away sins.

Pegg said: Thats right. Thats what i'm saying.. and it continues like this even after the sacrifice of Jesus had taken place. Paul was writing some years after Christ had died...so obviously it is not the Christian view that man becomes perfect through Christ right now. We are still sinful by nature...this will not be taken away until after God has removed the wicked and the full number of anointed ones have taken their place in the heavenly kingdom. It is during the Millennial Reign of Christ that mankind will be restored to perfection and sin will be removed. But until that time, sin is still in our blood and we are still required to seek Gods forgiveness on a daily basis.


Maybe you misunderstood my question, so I will ask it again, and let you clarify. Could the blood of bulls and goats take away sin? A simple yes or no will help me to know your position.

You just stated that it is not the christian view that man becomes perfect through Christ right now? If that is true, the why did the author of Hebrews say "For by one sacrifice HE HAS MADE PERFECT forever those who are being made holy?"

"11 Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13 and since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool. 14 For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy."
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
There is only one true God and one true religion. Its up to us to search it out and determine it for ourselves. Im sure you've come to your determination as i've come to mine. we should let it rest there.

I wish you well :)
"Religion is a snare and a racket" J.R. Rutherford (1939)
Is religion still a snare and a racket or is there new light about it?

Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Believe They Are the True Religion? | FAQ

Those who are serious about religion should think that the one they’ve chosen is acceptable to God and Jesus. Otherwise, why would they be involved in it?

Jesus Christ didn’t agree with the view that there are many religions, many roads, all leading to salvation. Rather, he said: “Narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it.” (Matthew 7:14) Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that they’ve found that road. Otherwise, they’d look for another religion.

As I understand it a person must find the gate. The way is on the other side of the gate. Why would they say they found the road and not the gate?

Very truly I tell you Pharisees, anyone who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber. John 10:1
 
Last edited:

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Did some research. It took about 45 seconds thanks to Gates or whomever. LOL

Matthew 7:14 doesn't say road. It can't be road so to make my point. It says way. How do I know this?

I compare the same word at Matthew 3:3

OK?
This is he who was spoken of through the prophet Isaiah: "A voice of one calling in the wilderness, 'Prepare the way for the Lord, make straight paths for him.'"
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Good News From God!

fg_E_md.jpg

Lesson 13

What Is the Good News About Religion?

1. Is all religion good?
There are sincere people in all religions. It is good news that God sees those people and cares about them. But sadly, religion has been used for evil ends. (2 Corinthians 4:3, 4; 11:13-15) According to news reports, some religions are even involved in terrorism, genocide, war, and child abuse. How this saddens sincere believers in God!—ReadMatthew 24:3-5, 11, 12.

Whereas true religion glorifies God, false religion displeases him. It teaches ideas that are not in the Bible, including false teachings about God and about the dead. But Jehovah wants people to know the truth about him.—Read Ezekiel 18:4; 1 Timothy 2:3-5.

2. What is the good news about religion?
Happily, God is not deceived by religions that claim to love him but are really in love with Satan’s world. (James 4:4) God’s Word refers to all false religion as “Babylon the Great.” Babylon was the ancient city where false religion began after the Flood of Noah’s day. Soon, God will bring a sudden end to religion that deceives and oppresses mankind.—Read Revelation 17:1, 2, 5, 16, 17; 18:8.

There is more good news. Jehovah has not forgotten the sincere people who are scattered among false religions worldwide. He is uniting such people by teaching them the truth.—Read Micah 4:2, 5.

3. What should sincere people do?
True religion is uniting people

Jehovah cares about people who love what is true and good. He urges them to leave false religion behind. People who love God are willing to make changes to please him.—Read Revelation 18:4.

In the first century, when sincere people heard the good news from the apostles, they responded with joy. They learned a new way of life from Jehovah, a happier way of life with a purpose and a hope. They are a good example for us today because they responded to the good news by putting Jehovah first in their lives.—Read 1 Thessalonians 1:8, 9;2:13.

Jehovah welcomes into his family of worshippers those who turn away from false religion. If you accept Jehovah’s warm invitation, you will receive his friendship, a new and loving family of fellow worshippers of Jehovah, and everlasting life.—Read Mark 10:29, 30; 2 Corinthians 6:17, 18.

4. How will God bring joy to every land?
The coming judgment of false religion is good news. It will bring worldwide relief from oppression. Never again will false religion mislead and divide mankind. Everyone living will be united in the worship of the only true God.—Read Revelation 18:20, 21; 21:3, 4.
 

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
"The Watchtower vs. Jesus and the Bible"


Mat 16:24 (ESVST) 24 Then Jesus told his disciples, "If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.

*** w08 1/15 p. 26 par. 6 Counted Worthy to Be Guided to Fountains of Waters of Life ***

Behind you they will walk.’” (Isa. 45:14) In a symbolic way, Christians with an earthly hope today walk behind the anointed slave class and its Governing Body, following their leadership.



John 14:25-26 (ESVST) . 26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.

*** w81 2/15 p. 19 Do We Need Help to Understand the Bible? ***

Rather, the record that the “faithful and discreet slave” organization has made for the past more than 100 years forces us to the conclusion that Peter expressed when Jesus asked if his apostles also wanted to leave him, namely, “Whom shall we go away to?” (John 6:66-69) No question about it. We all need help to understand the Bible, and we cannot find the Scriptural guidance we need outside the “faithful and discreet slave” organization. (I believe this statement with it's reference to be blasphemy!!)



John 16:23-24 (ESVST) . Truly, truly, I say to you, whatever you ask of the Father in my name, he will give it to you. 24 Until now you have asked nothing in my name. Ask, and you will receive, that your joy may be full.

*** w93 9/15 p. 22 They Compassionately Shepherd the Little Sheep ***

But if we were to draw away from Jehovah’s organization, there would be no place else to go for salvation and true joy. (Compare John 6:66-69.) !!BLASPHEMY!!





Jn 14:5-6 (ESVST) ?" 6 Jesus said to him, " I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

*** w13 7/15 p. 20 par. 2 “Who Really Is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?” ***

That faithful slave is the channel through which Jesus is feeding his true followers in this time of the end. It is vital that we recognize the faithful slave. Our spiritual health and our relationship with God depend on this channel.—Matt. 4:4; John 17:3.





Luk 11:12-13 (ESVST) ? 13 If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will the heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!"

*** w73 7/1 p. 402 par. 4 Praise Jehovah with His People ***

4 Consider, too, the fact that Jehovah’s organization alone, in all the earth, is directed by God’s holy spirit or active force.





1Ti 2:4-6 (ESVST) . 5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all.

*** ws chap. 1 p. 10 par. 16 The Desire for Peace and Security Worldwide ***

Jesus Christ, is not the Mediator between Jehovah God and all mankind. He is the Mediator between his heavenly Father, Jehovah God, and the nation of spiritual Israel, which is limited to only 144,000 members.





Act 4:11-12 (ESVST) 12 And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."

*** w81 11/15 p. 21 par. 18 ‘Stay Awake and Keep Your Senses’ ***

And while now the witness yet includes the invitation to come to Jehovah’s organization for salvation.



I could go on and on. Maybe another time. I did give reference to the WT articles so anyone can look them up to see they were not taken out of context.
 
Last edited:

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
"The Watchtower vs. Jesus and the Bible"


Act 4:11-12 (ESVST) 12 And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."

*** w93 9/15 p. 22 They Compassionately Shepherd the Little Sheep ***

But if we were to draw away from Jehovah’s organization, there would be no place else to go for salvation and true joy.





Jer 17:5 (ESVST) 5 Thus says the Lord: " Cursed is the man who trusts in man and makes flesh his strength.

*** w09 2/15 p. 27 par. 12 They “Keep Following the Lamb” ***

The slave thus deserves our complete trust.





Eph 4:13-14 (ESVST) , 14 so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes.

*** km 5/74 p. 3 How Are You Using Your Life? ***

Reports are heard of brothers selling their homes and property and planning to finish out the rest of their days in this old system in the pioneer service. Certainly this is a fine way to spend the short time remaining before the wicked world’s end.





2Th 2:10-12 (ESVST) . 11 Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, 12 in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

*** w09 2/15 p. 24 par. 3 They “Keep Following the Lamb” ***

There are many reasons why the slave class deserves our trust. Two outstanding reasons are: (1) Jehovah trusts the slave class. (2) Jesus also trusts the slave. Let us examine the evidence that both Jehovah God and Jesus Christ have complete confidence in the faithful and discreet slave.



Prophecy of the WTBTS?

2Ti 4:2-4 (ESVST) . 3 For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, 4 and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
JWs teach that Jesus had to suffer to prove his faithfulness to God while under trial. True, or false.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
2Th 2:10-12 (ESVST) . 11 Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, 12 in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

*** w09 2/15 p. 24 par. 3 They “Keep Following the Lamb” ***

There are many reasons why the slave class deserves our trust. Two outstanding reasons are: (1) Jehovah trusts the slave class. (2) Jesus also trusts the slave. Let us examine the evidence that both Jehovah God and Jesus Christ have complete confidence in the faithful and discreet slave.

I didn't believe that anyone in their right mind could say Jehovah trusts us and Jesus also does so I had to see it for myself. That's what they say.

They “Keep Following the Lamb” — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

3 Jesus has appointed the faithful and discreet slave “over his domestics,” that is, the individual members of the slave class, “to give them their food at the proper time.” He has also appointed the slave “over all his belongings.” (Matt. 24:45-47) These “belongings” include the growing “great crowd” of “other sheep.” (Rev. 7:9; John 10:16) Should not individual members of the anointed and the “other sheep” trust the slave appointed over them? There are many reasons why the slave class deserves our trust. Two outstanding reasons are: (1) Jehovah trusts the slave class. (2) Jesus also trusts the slave. Let us examine the evidence that both Jehovah God and Jesus Christ have complete confidence in the faithful and discreet slave......
.....11 Since Jehovah God and Jesus Christ completely trust the faithful and discreet slave, should we not do the same?

It seems that Jehovah did not trust his son so he put him to death and left him alone but trusts those men better than he trusts his own son. I don't believe it.
 
Last edited:

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
How can Jehovah trust "completely" anyone and also these be true?

Revelation 2:10
10 Do not be afraid of the things you are about to suffer. Look! The Devil will keep on throwing some of you into prison so that you may be fully put to the test, and you will have tribulation for ten days. Prove yourself faithful even to death, and I will give you the crown of life.

Luke 21:19
19 By your endurance you will preserve your lives.

Matthew 24:13
13 But the one who has endured to the end will be saved.

Matthew 10:22
22 And you will be hated by all people on account of my name, but the one who has endured to the end will be saved.
 

JayJayDee

Avid JW Bible Student
Jam 1:26-27 (ESVST) 27 Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.

I like the way the CEB translates this verse....

James 1:26-27...."If those who claim devotion to God don’t control what they say, they mislead themselves. Their devotion is worthless. True devotion, the kind that is pure and faultless before God the Father, is this: to care for orphans and widows in their difficulties and to keep the world from contaminating us." (CEB)

"If any man thinks he is a worshipper of God but does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he is deceiving his own heart, and his worship is futile. The form of worship that is clean and undefiled from the standpoint of our God and Father is this: to look after orphans and widows in their tribulation, and to keep oneself without spot from the world." (NWT)

The NWT also leaves "religion" and "religious" out of that verse because of what it has come to mean in Christendom.
Strong's confirms that this word is 'Godly devotion' or 'the worship of God'...not adherence to the performance or ritual required by the church but not found in scripture. Early Christianity was not ritualistic at all. Devotion to God was demonstrated by a willingness to follow the commands of the Christ...to follow in his footsteps as a preacher and teacher. I do not see Christendom doing that....in fact when I was in the church, I saw the exact opposite. I saw some assistance for the poor, but it was merely handouts without much in the way of preaching or spiritual assistance. Jesus never advocated hand to mouth charity. In Israel the poor still had to earn their living by gleaning in the fields in the outer perimeter of a crop left for them by law. The dignity of work is a Christian ethic. No lazy ones were to receive anything. (2 Thess 3:10)

Keeping oneself 'uncontaminated' from the world meant what Jesus said...being "NO part of the world" means not becoming involved with its political conflicts or sharing in its bloodguilt. It means being like Jesus and having nothing to do with politics. He was completely neutral and always advocated compliance to the laws of the government. The only time a Christian is free to go against the laws of the land is when they are asked to break the laws of God.
Christendom is up to her neck in politics. How does a Christian 'love their enemy' with a gun or a bomb or a rocket launcher?
How does a Christian vote for governments who slaughter their enemies for purely political reasons, without sharing in their bloodguilt?


I would like to ask JW's a question. You claim you preach the good new that Jesus taught to preach. You are continuing the preaching that His disciples preached. I know the first thing every JW that has come to my house has said to get me to listen. My question is this, what is the good news of the Kingdom Jesus was referring to?

JW's know exactly what the kingdom is and what it will accomplish for mankind.....so before I answer that question officially, what do you believe the kingdom is? If Jesus prayed for it to "come" and for God's "will to be done on earth as it is in heaven"....how do you understand what he said?

Let's compare notes on this. If "the good news of the kingdom" is what we are supposed to preach, then we better know what we are talking about. And we'd better be out doing it. Jesus said he would be backing it.

So what is the good news of the kingdom according to your understanding? Scripture please.
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
I agree.

Jam 1:26-27 (ESVST) 27 Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.


I would like to ask JW's a question. You claim you preach the good new that Jesus taught to preach. You are continuing the preaching that His disciples preached. I know the first thing every JW that has come to my house has said to get me to listen. My question is this, what is the good news of the Kingdom Jesus was referring to?

The Good News is coming to know Gods power for the salvation of everyone putting faith in Christ. Its about the future, its about the past...its about how God will restore mankind from sin and death to life and perfection.
 
Last edited:

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
So what is the good news of the kingdom according to your understanding? Scripture please.

So we're on the same page I'd like to ask one more question. Do JW's believe that Jesus taught the disciples what they should preach, and that the JW's are supposed follow their lead?
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
You are trained well! If you can't successfully refute a question or comment, ask a question or change the subject. You're not required to give the truth to someone who is not entitled to it.

well, i've studied well enough to know what Jehovah wants us to do. I also know that the evidence of holy spirit is seen by what christians will be 'doing'

Acts 1:“You will receive power when the holy spirit arrives upon you,” he said, “and you will be witnesses of me both in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria and to the most distant part of the earth.”

According to Jesus words, holy spirit will empower his true disciples to preach to the most distant part of the earth. That is the work holy spirit will move Jesus disciples to do. If you are a disciple of Jesus and are receiving holy spirit, you will be a preacher.

 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
So please explain why we even have to acknowledge God in this life? If we die before judgment day we're cool, we will get a second chance.

because its the right thing to do regardless. We are creations of Jehovah, we are obligated to him.... and if we are just going to use our life for our own selfish purposes now, then we are missing out on coming to know him and developing a relationship with him.

However, if you know that what you are doing is wrong, then be assured that Jehovah also knows it. He is not one to be mocked. If you are not willing to submit to God now, whats to say you will be willing when you are resurrected? Perhaps you will be one of those who will receive a resurrection of 'judgment' whereby you will be judged by what you do upon your resurrection....if you are not willing to come to know Jehovah now and make some sort of effort to live by his laws, then perhaps you wont put forth any effort in the world to come either.....second death is awaiting such ones.
 

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
Acts 1:“You will receive power when the holy spirit arrives upon you,” he said, “and you will be witnesses of me both in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria and to the most distant part of the earth.”

Why are you called Jehovah's witnesses?
 

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
However, if you know that what you are doing is wrong, then be assured that Jehovah also knows it. He is not one to be mocked. If you are not willing to submit to God now, whats to say you will be willing when you are resurrected? Perhaps you will be one of those who will receive a resurrection of 'judgment' whereby you will be judged by what you do upon your resurrection....if you are not willing to come to know Jehovah now and make some sort of effort to live by his laws, then perhaps you wont put forth any effort in the world to come either.....second death is awaiting such ones.

Satan will be bound for a 1000 years. There will be know evil to tempt anyone, how can anyone do anything bad? What I do "UPON" my resurrection?
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
Pegg, in post #1652, I asked you if the blood of bulls and goats could take away sin. That was the question I asked you, and you answered, "That's right. That's what I'm saying. Please go back and look for yourself.

Here it is.

Katie said: Are you saying it was possible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sin?
Do you not see a difference between forgiveness in the OT and the NT?
See Hebrews 10
The author says sacrifices can never take away sins.

Pegg said: Thats right. Thats what i'm saying.. and it continues like this even after the sacrifice of Jesus had taken place.


Please note what you say above;
Katie:
Are you saying it was possible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sin?
Do you not see a difference between forgiveness in the OT and the NT?
See Hebrews 10
The author says sacrifices can never take away sins.


Pegg: Thats right...thats what i'm saying


I'm, agreeing that the fact that the temple sacrifices can never take away sins. The Israelites continued to be sinners even thought God granted them forgiveness.

Being forgiven by God does not 'remove' sin and death from mankind. Something more was needed.



You just stated that it is not the christian view that man becomes perfect through Christ right now? If that is true, the why did the author of Hebrews say "For by one sacrifice HE HAS MADE PERFECT forever those who are being made holy?"

Who are being made 'holy' ?

It is referring to the 'holy ones' who will become a 'kingdom of priests' who are presented as the 'firstfruits' to God in heaven. They will be made perfect upon their resurrection to heavenly life. Nowhere in the christian scriptures will you read that the christians were now perfect and sinless. Sin is still a prominent topic in the scriptures and Paul even calls himself a sinful man even after Christ had been sacrificed:.
Romans 7:21 I find, then, this law in my case: When I wish to do what is right, what is bad is present with me.+ 22 I really delight in the law of God according to the man I am within,+ 23 but I see in my body* another law warring against the law of my mind+ and leading me captive to sin’s law+ that is in my body.*24 Miserable man that I am! Who will rescue me from the body undergoing this death? 25 Thanks to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So, then, with my mind I myself am a slave to God’s law, but with my flesh to sin’s law.

So obviously, Sin had not yet been removed....it was still prevalent and it continues to be prevalent today. Mankind is still dying and that wont change until we are living in the millenial reign of Christ
 
Last edited:
Top