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Are believers Worshiping Satan in Gods disguise?

McBell

Resident Sourpuss
[
Too often Atheism/Greed/Materialism/Socialism/Communism/Absolutism/Science has been an aphrodisiac for horror, a Benzedrine for bestiality. At its best
it has lifted spirits and raised spires.
At its worst it has turned entire civilizations into cemeteries. - raph
As has religion.
As has belief in god

Counting the hits and ignoring the misses does not help and merely reveals a desperation.

I don't call the church who did this God sent. The bible never burned people.
The Bible never does anything.
Much like the God the Bible talks about.
It is always people who do the things then blame/credit the Bible and God for their actions/beliefs/etc.
 

raph

Member
So god is not all powerful?
He is all powerful, but chose to create free will.
So another example of god not being all powerful...
Again, free will. If humans want to preach falsly, they may do it.
The best lies are the ones hidden in truth.
Are you claiming that The Satan is incapable of telling truth?
That The Satan cannot lie by telling the truth?
Humans do both all the time.
I am telling, that whenever you follow something which is good, you are following God. Even if a Satan gives you that good advice.
 

McBell

Resident Sourpuss
He is all powerful, but chose to create free will.
Yet cannot interfere with freewill thus making him not all powerful.
You cannot have it both ways.

Again, free will. If humans want to preach falsly, they may do it.
Again with the "freewill" safety net...?

I am telling, that whenever you follow something which is good, you are following God. Even if a Satan gives you that good advice.
So following The Satan when doing something good is following God?
So God is also The Satan?
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Religion has done much more harm to humanity than good. Had there been no religion life, culture and society would have progressed much better.

You can't know whether that is true. You create an imaginary world and assume any outcome you wish but it's still remains a fantasy.

Religion is definitely crippling thoughts and holding back people from making ethical judgment, for eg, prohibiting gay rights, sticking to halal butchering and so on. I don’t believe in the various stories associated with the origins of religion. If god exists and if he wishes that everyone should follow a particular religion, he could do that instantly so that we all would have an inherent religious knowledge and there won’t be any need of any external books and we would all be followers of the “true religion”.

There probably is no true religion, but people need a belief in something greater then themselves in order to come together to work on common goals. A code or doctrine of some kind. When there is agreement on goals that's fine but when there is disagreement, how are you going to decide who is right other then being able to force your will on others?

People will usually do what they want to do if they think they can get away with it. With a God at least there is some fear they will ultimately have to account for their actions. Otherwise they are only accountable if they get caught and you can force them to submit to whatever your morality happens to be.

from Moses to Jesus to Muhammad - > why did god sent a prophet, created a holy book and a religion and later sent another prophet who made another religion to follow , then sent another prophet who in turn created another religion and so on – so people would eventually start fighting over this in the name of God. This is not reasonable for me.

Perhaps unique individuals who saw the only way to control the masses and give them purpose was to provide a God for them. Why would anyone listen to these folks if they didn't believe they had the authority of God?

For this reason, what if it is the converse that is true? What if these religions are the brain child of ibilis or Satan? What if it is the Satan that needs those holy books for us to follow? What if we are actually worshiping Satan in Gods disguise? What if following these religions takes us far away from true god?

What if on the final judgment day God asks you – I never created those religion or holy books – why did you (followers) succumb to ibilis/satan?

Again fantasy so you can make the truth to be whatever you wish. Even if they were to worship Satan, at least it gives them something to be accountable to.

Certainly religious control is far from perfect but I don't know we wouldn't have some type of chaotic anarchy that wouldn't have been any better. What we really have is might makes right. Religion adds a little control on that, not much but something.
 

morphesium

Active Member
Peace be on you.
You could say, Abuse-of-religion.
The religion in its pure form just ask about morality and justice and rights.
As time passes, religion like other aspects, gets corruption by the very hands of corrupts clergies and followers.
so religion is a failure. is it not?
the problem is not just that. It is often the poor and the helpless who has to suffer the dark evils of the society and their religion (since they believe that it is God sent) resist change. and corruption and all dark evils skyrockets in the society. the corrupt authorities suppress free thought (which left free will question their acts and postion) with ever more religious principles and practices which in turn favors corruption and this is a cyclic process.

Morality, justice and rights will exist in a society even with out religion. in fact it has nothing to do with religion. it is our sense of ethics, or morality or sense of doing right that made our societies to progress and it in an ongoing process. religion eventually and actually pulls back society from making any progress overtime. it is stagnating.


.....you mean just as in religion-less soviet era? / !
ofcourse they definitely didnt have religion in their politics. it perished because of other reasons and has nothing to do with (or being without) religion.

Religion comes from the Maker. If He made hundreds of foods and prohibited few for the good of people, it is not harmful. As Ahmadiyya Muslim, one believe that issue of rising Gays is directly related to weakening of family unit and free mingling of male and females as soon as their hormones start as adolescents..... They should be dealt with very kindness and bring back to major genders.

I agree that being a Gay is a psychological issue and true that they won't produce offspring. sometime back I read somewhere that in the past in the medieval Europe, one out of four men married and raised offsprings. The three went unmarried and did not produce offspring. so both are equal in terms of producing offsprings. Now as far as overpopulation is concerned i have more reason to believe that it is a blessing. And i don't agree with "rising Gays is directly related to weakening of family unit and free mingling of male and females as soon as their hormones start as adolescents....."
Idea of God is not human-made since the earliest people [e.g. Aborigines Australia] who could not meet each other, each has faith of deity. Obviously God revealed to them.
The idea of God is human made.

In the past, as humanity progressed into tribal societies and beyond, power always had to be vested with a few for proper administration. And it was easy for them to realize that they could guarantee their strong hold the most if they could take advantage of the fact that

  1. The fear of the unknown is always much greater than fear of the known.
  2. There is always the uncertainty of the future.
  3. People had to suffer extreme hard ships for their survival and this demanded something strong to pacify them.
and nothing fits better than the God factor and hence the formation of a religion. This is something very easy to sell and makes the least oppression which they can easily suppress with some magical trickery and stories. Additionally, it has a very addictive nature and can propel itself for generations. Rituals and other holy practices were incorporated into it which not only strengthened the religious bondage, but also helped the religious heads to keep an eye on those who are stepping away from such practices. followers are easily made to believe that they get some form of divine protection.

so as different tribes formed, so were different stories and different gods. As societies merged or progressed or destroyed through war etc, so was religion.

If it was God that revealed to them, then every religion would be the same and there won't be any fight over this.

Idea of God is embedded in all of us.
NO, it was entrusted on us by the society.
Understanding of many doing good and not doing bad is in all of us.
agreed. The good thing about morale is that it is always one step ahead of us. So , listening to your morale makes you better and even better. In effect, it will keep on polishing oneself.As ones morale polishes oneself individually, collectively it is the society that eventually gets polished; so is social justice- it gets polished; so is social laws - it gets polished. That is the reason why social injustice like slavery, inhumane laws etc that were once much prevalent and legal in our societies are now illegal and abandoned.
Religion shows paths and makes things clear.
NO, it is science that shows paths and makes things clear. Religion makes things murky and illogical.

Prophet is a an able-body like a scientist, who has special aptitude for the job.
Besides, Prophets' earlier lives are clean as glass. They never lie in world why would they start lying for God?
i can't agree with these. Human nature is best studied scientifically. Moreover , various acts of these prophets are unjustifiable for my ethics.
Satan never ask to do good.
So you fear is not right.
What if it is a ploy of satan - do some good and much more harm .


-------Too often religion has been an aphrodisiac for horror, a Benzedrine for bestiality. At its best
it has lifted spirits and raised spires.
At its worst it has turned entire civilizations into cemeteries. —Phillip Adams

If you said all above, how can you reach this possible conclusion because these are Prophets / Messengers who tell about Hereafter?

why do you believe in these ( we have more to talk here).
God will ask other way round.
never. I have no reasons to believe the Bible, Quran or anyother holy books to be true.

Good wishes for you too.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
For this reason, what if it is the converse that is true? What if these religions are the brain child of ibilis or Satan? What if it is the Satan that needs those holy books for us to follow? What if we are actually worshiping Satan in Gods disguise? What if following these religions takes us far away from true god?

What if on the final judgment day God asks you – I never created those religion or holy books – why did you (followers) succumb to ibilis/satan?
IMO, this is an especially big problem for the monotheists: if you believe there's only one god and any number of demons/deceiving spirits/etc., then just by sheer probability, odds are that the entity you've chosen to follow is a demon and not God.
 

JRMcC

Active Member
Religion has done much more harm to humanity than good. Had there been no religion life, culture and society would have progressed much better.

Try going on the Hinduism DIR and telling them that Hinduism has been bad for Indian culture.

Religion is definitely crippling thoughts and holding back people from making ethical judgment, for eg, prohibiting gay rights, sticking to halal butchering and so on.

Take the example of homosexuality in Abrahamic faiths. I think both you and I agree that these religions are not truths revealed by God. They are man made. The religions that condemn homosexuality are man made. Therefore dislike of homosexuality preceded these religions, the ones you say are the cause of prejudices like these.

Also, the 20th and 21st centuries are proof that lack of religion does not make us more moral. So I don't know why we blast "religion" as the root of all evil. I put "religion" in quotation marks because I think you're actually only referring to a small number of faiths in one are of the world.

For this reason, what if it is the converse that is true? What if these religions are the brain child of ibilis or Satan? What if it is the Satan that needs those holy books for us to follow? What if we are actually worshiping Satan in Gods disguise? What if following these religions takes us far away from true god?

I know what you mean. Religion can be turned on its head quickly. Score one for science.

What if on the final judgment day God asks you – I never created those religion or holy books – why did you (followers) succumb to ibilis/satan?

I suppose that kind of God would be able to tell apart those who were racist and/or immoral from those who were brainwashed or fooled into following a certain religion or denomination.
 

jeager106

Learning more about Jehovah.
Premium Member
Another option is that a God-approved form of worship is like a diamond. The world is a bucket, with the diamond in it. The Devil filled the bucket with ice. All the pretty gemstones look much the same till you apply heat.


That sums it up pretty well.
Christianity has become polluted with pagan symbols and beliefs.
Satan got to work quickly to destroy true Christianity and cleverly replace the truth
with symbols that bring worship to him and most people are blind to these
things.
 

Sabour

Well-Known Member
ly books – why did you (followers) succumb to ibilis/satan?




That can't be the case because it is through these holy books in which we know who Iblis/Satan is. For example, Quraan tells us that when we want to recite Quraan, we should seek refuge in Allah from satan the accursed.
 

thau

Well-Known Member
all i know about satan is it is the oppostie of God (God X Satan):grinning:. And i do agree i know nothing about God:shrug: .
thanks for the reply

Well if you admit you know nothing about God, then surely nothing about religion will make sense to you either.

I also think it quite unfair to group all religions together and discredit one because of the actions of another. One could say "men are pigs" because one knows of at least 10 men who are pigs.

So why would you not start with a more basic question like "prove to me there is a God?" And then, "prove to me which God?" Until then, I do not expect you to find any religion making much sense.
 
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morphesium

Active Member
That can't be the case because it is through these holy books in which we know who Iblis/Satan is. For example, Quraan tells us that when we want to recite Quraan, we should seek refuge in Allah from satan the accursed.



The problem is we come to know all about these from this (these) book(s) alone - and there is no proof, no experiments to prove it right. So what if it was a ploy of satan? what if he is making use of human psychology so that there would be much fighting and blood shed over this issue sooner or later? one prophet come with some methodologies, then comes another with quite some different approch and then another prophet etc. Moreover religions grow and split and they start to fight with one another. So who is the winner here eventually? – Satan.


All human beings have some morale and are capable of rational thinking (these qualities are very innate to us). The good thing about morale is that it is always one step ahead of us. So , listening to your morale makes you better and even better. In effect, it will keep on polishing oneself. Hence, morale can guide one. As ones morale polishes oneself individually, collectively it is the society that eventually gets polished; so is social justice- it gets polished; so is social laws - it gets polished. That is the reason why social injustice like slavery, inhumane laws etc that were once much prevalent and legal in our societies are now illegal and abandoned.

The problem with religion is that it resists change – not only because it is habitualized, but also out of fear; fear of the religious heads; fear of the God itself. This is where the problem is. Even if their morale is asking for a change, they won’t out of fear, out of the feeling that their holy books can never go wrong – after all it is god sent, how can it be wrong and they reasons and opt not to change.

(For this I am taking the example of the case with halal meat. Modern science has methods to kill an animal in the most humane way- killing the brain or making the animal unconscious with a shock and then butchering it (if it is the intentions of Prophet Mohammed that is to be valued, then this is Halal meat now). What about the animal that has to undergo halal butchering – it has to suffer much more pain. Back in those old days, it was the best possible method; drain as much blood as possible which ensures that the animal has been killed before it is butchered. But how can one accept it is the best method available now.) Similar is the case with slavery, child marriages.

So who wins in the long run here? – Satan.


Religion is very addictive and blindfolding in nature so that it can prevent them from seeing what they ought to, prevent them from listening to their morale which they ought to. Why do you think the ISIS people are so morale-less? The cruelties of the Christian church towards people who stood for science? Why is that people like Raif Badawi are punished when his suggestions were actually intended to (re)glorify Islam? – so who is the winner here? – Satan.
 

rusra02

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I partly agree with you. False religion has done tremendous harm to mankind and continues to do so. In fact, Jesus told religious leaders of his day; "You are from your father the Devil, and you wish to do the desires of your father." (John 8:44) Satan, "the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers" and is "misleading rhe entire inhabited earth" according to the Bible at 2 Corinthians 4:4 and Revelation 12:9. On the other hand, I do not believe our Creator would leave us to grope like blind men in the spiritual fog Satan has manufactured. I am confident the Bible is God's letter to all mankind, revealing the truth about himself and the solution to all the false religions whose ultimate source is Satan the Devil. Therein, he describes the end to all false religion. (Revelation 18:21-24) I believe the hour is near when all will be compelled to know who the true God is. Sadly for many, it will be too late.(Revelation 6:15-17)
 

Iti oj

Global warming is real and we need to act
Premium Member
That can't be the case because it is through these holy books in which we know who Iblis/Satan is. For example, Quraan tells us that when we want to recite Quraan, we should seek refuge in Allah from satan the accursed.
Theres a saying "the devil is never any more evil then when he appears to be the angle of light."
 

morphesium

Active Member
Well if you admit you know nothing about God, then surely nothing about religion will make sense to you either.
I also think it quite unfair to group all religions together and discredit one because of the actions of another. One could say "men are pigs" because one knows of at least 10 men who are pigs. So why would you not start with a more basic question like "prove to me there is a God?" And then, "prove to me which God?" Until then, I do not expect you to find any religion making much sense.

Ofcourse I admit i know nothing about God, but then it is the case exactly with you and everyone else. Why do you accept X as god just because everyone around you said "X is God"?. Why do you accept X as god just because a book has claimed to be so? You just pretend to believe these to be true and in turn you are letting satan/ibilis to win over yourself.

God doesn't need the help of books or prophets to talk to us. if it is god who created you (us), that you are one of the gods glorious creations, then god has given his message to each one of us and we were born with it - it is inherent to us. Our sense of morality, our subconscious feeling to be/do good is our true god sent message. No other religion can claim this- for they all came to us externally after we were born to books or through other sources. This is the best way for god to give us freewill without interfering with us, The best way god can talk to us without showing himself. This is the biggest proof that your (our) religion is not god sent. One is closer to god without religion than with religion provided he listen to his moral.

What could be the reason (according to your belief) why God didn't impart the knowledge/words in "your holy book" in each and everyone of us so that we would have born with it? Instead why did (God) made a book for people to follow?
 

thau

Well-Known Member
Ofcourse I admit i know nothing about God, but then it is the case exactly with you and everyone else. Why do you accept X as god just because everyone around you said "X is God"?. Why do you accept X as god just because a book has claimed to be so? You just pretend to believe these to be true and in turn you are letting satan/ibilis to win over yourself.

God doesn't need the help of books or prophets to talk to us. if it is god who created you (us), that you are one of the gods glorious creations, then god has given his message to each one of us and we were born with it - it is inherent to us. Our sense of morality, our subconscious feeling to be/do good is our true god sent message. No other religion can claim this- for they all came to us externally after we were born to books or through other sources. This is the best way for god to give us freewill without interfering with us, The best way god can talk to us without showing himself. This is the biggest proof that your (our) religion is not god sent. One is closer to god without religion than with religion provided he listen to his moral.

What could be the reason (according to your belief) why God didn't impart the knowledge/words in "your holy book" in each and everyone of us so that we would have born with it? Instead why did (God) made a book for people to follow?
You are preaching deism (imo) and to me that is the easy way out, i.e. God created us and gave us free will to do as we please and left us alone. And then by extension, since according to deism we have no messages coming from above it won’t matter to Him what we do or don’t do.

To me that makes no sense. If God did not care what we do then what is the purpose for even having an earth with trials and suffering? Why not just create us all in heaven and bypass the drama?

I submit Jesus Christ is thee divine manifestation and thee answer to what’s it all about. Prior to that the Word says it is written on the hearts of all man that there is a God who gave them life and they have an innate desire or knowledge to acknowledge their Creator. They will be judged according to their own “well formed” consciences. In other words, man knows stealing and violence and murder, et al. is wrong. To go against that will have its ramifications in the eternal. But once Jesus and His miracles and the miracles that followed validating the words of His prophets came on the scene, now man has been shown so much more. To those who have been given those signs and wonders, they have more to embrace and not so easily turn their backs on without good cause.
 

Etritonakin

Well-Known Member
Actually, many are. It is good to believe in God, but it is better to know God and do what he says.

2Co 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
2Co 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
2Co 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness
; whose end shall be according to their works.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Mat 15:7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
Mat 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
Mat 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

2 Tim 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

That is not to say that those who are deceived are eternally doomed -as God is not calling all in this time -only firstfruits..


James 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
 
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Popcorn

What is it?
Religion has done much more harm to humanity than good. Had there been no religion life, culture and society would have progressed much better. Religion is definitely crippling thoughts and holding back people from making ethical judgment, for eg, prohibiting gay rights, sticking to halal butchering and so on. I don’t believe in the various stories associated with the origins of religion. If god exists and if he wishes that everyone should follow a particular religion, he could do that instantly so that we all would have an inherent religious knowledge and there won’t be any need of any external books and we would all be followers of the “true religion”.

from Moses to Jesus to Muhammad - > why did god sent a prophet, created a holy book and a religion and later sent another prophet who made another religion to follow , then sent another prophet who in turn created another religion and so on – so people would eventually start fighting over this in the name of God. This is not reasonable for me.

For this reason, what if it is the converse that is true? What if these religions are the brain child of ibilis or Satan? What if it is the Satan that needs those holy books for us to follow? What if we are actually worshiping Satan in Gods disguise? What if following these religions takes us far away from true god?

What if on the final judgment day God asks you – I never created those religion or holy books – why did you (followers) succumb to ibilis/satan?



I think you have to ask what are the benefits of religion? Literacy, the alphabet. Clocks and calendars. The ability to navigate the globe. Mathematics and geometry. Lots of things like that you take for granted come from religious people all throughout history. The printing press. Somebody invented that so that they could publish Bibles. Computers and the Bible... You ever read Genesis, the first chapter, the evening and the morning, cycles of day and night, God says it, and then God sees it, it's a very input/output algorithm.

Why would Satan, the adversary of humanity, want people to have such things at all?
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
Are believers Worshiping Satan in Gods disguise?

Sorry, I'm going with 'No". The teachings of religion I find are basically good.
 
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