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Why does God allow Trials??

Skwim

Veteran Member
I understand your grief.
Then you don't understand anything. I have no grief, only disdain for people who need to white-wash their god with claims of his justness in order to pass him off to others. Lie to yourself all you want, but don't be surprised if it's a hard sell elsewhere.
 
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Unification

Well-Known Member
Tell that to


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(with my appreciation to Jayhawker Soule)​

Would you trade your life for their's?
 

Quagmire

Imaginary talking monkey
Staff member
Premium Member
The point was the argument by itself does not resolve criticism. Anyone could claim any action they do they believe to be God's will and that such action helps them to cope, with, whatever. There may or may not be a problem for numerous reasons regardless. That's all.

What?
 

dust1n

Zindīq
I believe you have already accounted for your pre-mortal life. You wouldn't be here if you hadn't.

Well, that doesn't really feel fair to me at all. I mean, if I had all of this knowledge, and chose to give it a way even the memory of my decision, the I don't really feel like that pre-me has anything to do with me at all. I am the being who bears the name dust1n and exists in corporeal form. I refuse to take responsibility for actions that which I have no recollection of, by some form of me who isn't me. My past me made a bad decision. Do I get to take that up with him at some point?
 

Flat Earth Kyle

Well-Known Member
Would you trade your life for their's?
As I mentioned I believe we each understood the types of trials we would be given before we were born into this life. I chose my trials and they chose theirs. They were the fast trackers, that does not mean however that I believe in letting them suffer. I honor them for what they chose to endure and believe in giving whatever support I can.
 

Unification

Well-Known Member
If I actually knew of some way to, say, be crucified for three days, and reanimate, descend in to heaven, and save their soles for entirety, I think I'd probably do it.

Well good, since you are Jesus Christ (a living being) as is every other human, you can easily crucify your ego at the place of the skull(mind) and reanimate with a renewed mind of oneness and wholeness with the rest of life with no partiality to those suffering. Then one of those young children will become you in your next life and you will become one of those children. Flip-flop. Divine/cosmic balance and equality.
 

Flat Earth Kyle

Well-Known Member
Well, that doesn't really feel fair to me at all. I mean, if I had all of this knowledge, and chose to give it a way even the memory of my decision, the I don't really feel like that pre-me has anything to do with me at all. I am the being who bears the name dust1n and exists in corporeal form. I refuse to take responsibility for actions that which I have no recollection of, by some form of me who isn't me. My past me made a bad decision. Do I get to take that up with him at some point?
I have 2 very young daughters with 2 very different personalities. I don't believe those personalities are pure genetics, but rather they are who they are even though they don't recall the choices they made in getting here. Their personalities shine through the veil.

The purpose of the veil is another topic very much worth researching. It is a really great topic.
 

dust1n

Zindīq
Well good, since you are Jesus Christ (a living being) as is every other human, you can easily crucify your ego at the place of the skull(mind) and reanimate with a renewed mind of oneness and wholeness with the rest of life with no partiality to those suffering. Then one of those young children will become you in your next life and you will become one of those children. Flip-flop. Divine/cosmic balance and equality.

I'd take it now. Why wait?
 

dust1n

Zindīq
I have 2 very young daughters with 2 very different personalities. I don't believe those personalities are pure genetics, but rather they are who they are even though they don't recall the choices they made in getting here. Their personalities shine through the veil.

The purpose of the veil is another topic very much worth researching. It is a really great topic.

I'm sure your daughter's personalities are lovely, and probably less brash than mine. But I don't see why... they would have existed before they did? And that's not the say it's genetics. It's genetics mixed with... you knowing being around parents and human beings in general.
 
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dust1n

Zindīq
Because you are experiencing life right now and life is worth-ship to you, seeing your concern for others also. Being thankful for life is no different than worshipping "God/life."

Hmm, well it certainly feels different. I'm fine with the fact that all life is worship is some form. I still don't see where God fits in to that.
 

Unification

Well-Known Member
Hmm, well it certainly feels different. I'm fine with the fact that all life is worship is some form. I still don't see where God fits in to that.

We don't sustain our own lives. Loving life is the same as loving "God" minus all the trillion images and mental concepts of sky daddy's and god's out there from most religions.

Not created to love and cherish. We were created so that WE CAN love and cherish. Experience life. Emphasis is on US. We create either joy or suffering.
 

Flat Earth Kyle

Well-Known Member
I'm sure your daughter's personalities are lovely, and probably less brash than mine. But I don't see why... they would have existed before they did? And that's not the say it's genetics. It's genetics mixed with... you knowing being around parents and human beings in general.
My kids both had very different personalities both in the womb and the moment they were born. I can't say very much of that came from their time with my wife and I. It is amazing how everyone is so different.
 

Flat Earth Kyle

Well-Known Member
Not created to love and cherish. We were created so that WE CAN love and cherish. Experience life. Emphasis is on US. We create either joy or suffering.

I really like what you said here. I agree full heartedly.

The way you speak of God though I can't help but feel you believe in the philosophy of moral relativism. I don't know if this is the case or not, concerning your beliefs in absolute truths, but concerning which I keep thinking about his quote.

"Relativism means each person is his or her own highest authority. Of course, it is not just those who deny God that subscribe to this philosophy. Some who believe in God still believe that they themselves, individually, decide what is right and wrong. One young adult expressed it this way: “I don’t think I could say that Hinduism is wrong or Catholicism is wrong or being Episcopalian is wrong—I think it just depends on what you believe. … I don’t think that there’s a right and wrong.”21 Another, asked about the basis for his religious beliefs, replied, “Myself—it really comes down to that. I mean, how could there be authority to what you believe?”22

To those who believe anything or everything could be true, the declaration of objective, fixed, and universal truth feels like coercion—“I shouldn’t be forced to believe something is true that I don’t like.” But that does not change reality. Resenting the law of gravity won’t keep a person from falling if he steps off a cliff. The same is true for eternal law and justice. Freedom comes not from resisting it but from applying it. That is fundamental to God’s own power. If it were not for the reality of fixed and immutable truths, the gift of agency would be meaningless since we would never be able to foresee and intend the consequences of our actions. As Lehi expressed it: “If ye shall say there is no law, ye shall also say there is no sin. If ye shall say there is no sin, ye shall also say there is no righteousness. And if there be no righteousness there be no happiness. And if there be no righteousness nor happiness there be no punishment nor misery."

I don't know what that means to you, but I really wanted to share it with you.
 
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dust1n

Zindīq
We don't sustain our own lives. Loving life is the same as loving "God" minus all the trillion images and mental concepts of sky daddy's and god's out there from most religions

I still, honestly, don't know what that means.

Not created to love and cherish. We were created so that WE CAN love and cherish. Experience life. Emphasis is on US. We create either joy or suffering.

I don't think we were created, and I don't see any emphasis on us, except, the emphasis we place.
 

Antics34

Member
A friend of mine came to me and said, "God saved me from a car crash today, but later allowed me to injure my leg at work. Why would he save me from one thing, but not another?"
This is what I sent him in a message and had to share it with you too. :)

Here is my personal testimony, take it as you will...
I know and believe that life is a blessing from God. I believe we are all his children. I believe we are all sent here to be tested and to learn to follow him and grow from a baby to an adult with all the life lessons we can to be the greatest we can one day. I also believe that as his children he allows us (like all good parents) to make mistakes, to fall down, to hurt our leg, to experience trials. Because it is from pain and heartache, and working out that we grow muscles or grow our spirit and become wiser and more like God would have us be. He gives us agency. And because of this agency he does not force us to do anything. He loves us and lets us govern ourselves. As a parent myself I know this. And this has been a recent discovery for myself that I can relate to.
So when you ask God, "Why would you save me from one harm, but not from another?" Well he is the most greatest, most all knowing God. He knows the trials that you need to grow and become wiser. It seems funny that he may use a leg issue to help your spirit grow. We cannot comprehend the way trials work. But as humans have children. We the parents knows what is best for them. We know that our children must be left a lone when it comes to learning to walk. If we hold there hand the entire time, every time they will not learn to do it on their own. But we let them go, we let them fall, we let them bruise their knee. Because its all apart of life. We must experience pain, to know the greater joy. And we will never understand why we go through even greater challenges in life.... like a huge one... cancer.... Our lives do not end here. They do go on is my testimony. Many trials are beyond us and are so "unfair" but they humble our hearts, if we let them. God will never give us trials we can not handle. I have been taught this in my faith. And I know it. He loves us. But he also loves us enough to let us fall so we can grow and experience all forms of happiness from being stronger and wiser as He wishes for us.

Clearly you are not homosexual. Clearly you are normal and attractive. As God wrote: "He replied, 'I tell you that to everyone who has, more will be given, but as for the one who has nothing, even what they have will be taken away." Many will decry what you write here but they struggle with homosexuality and are not normal. I'm establishing that in another thread, they too will see the light once they recognize they were not created by God. My only goal for them is that they recognize they are absurd and the rest are children of God. Peace be with you.
 

Unification

Well-Known Member
I still, honestly, don't know what that means.



I don't think we were created, and I don't see any emphasis on us, except, the emphasis we place.

You were created by and from many things. From consciousness, to the very first atom to a living conscious being. You are still being formed and created. You always will be. If one loves life and is truly fulfilled, knowledge "of" anything doesn't matter. It's the experience/knowing. If one loves biology and the study of life, one is loving and studying "God" and does not even have a need to know of it. If one is studying and in awe by the cosmos, they are studying and in awe of "God's" brain and mind and does not even have a need to know of it. If one loves and studies nature, one is loving and studying "God" and doesn't even need to know of it. Life. Experience. Knowledge "of" something is just head knowledge. The actual experience is everything. A man or woman of science can believe in evolution and phylogenesis and have all the knowledge "of" these, while evolution and phylogenesis means that all are connected and ONE, but if the individual doesn't experience the connectedness to all life as ONE and the same, then that knowledge "of" really has no meaning and purpose. It would become hypocritical.

If I'm expressing an act of love to another fellow human being, I am expressing an act of love to "God."

If I'm expressing an act of hate to another fellow human being, I am expressing an act of hate to "God."

The emphasis WE place is US, as we both see it.

The mistake is thinking we will not reap what we sow to others. If I murdered twenty people, and was never caught, and die with a big smile on my face... With the haha I got away mentality, I will be contemplating why my life sucked so bad, as I suffer, and have the "this isn't fair" mentality, and asking "why me?" in my next life, and maybe many other lives until I became aware that I am my own worst enemy and it's my fault and blame and responsibility, no one else's and certainly not "God's." I'm going to suffer until I've paid every last penny for my free-willed actions. Having the "who cares, it won't be me mentality" in another life doesn't work either. We are no different than any other human being, and have the "spirit" of infinite potential to expeience all forms of feelings no matter what body we are in or what nationality, color, or part of the world.
 
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