• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Why does God allow Trials??

Quagmire

Imaginary talking monkey
Staff member
Premium Member
Because the message is coming from people they respect?

I find it unlikely that anyone who's decided to devote their lives to trying to prevent disease, car crashes, etc. is going to suddenly decide it isn't worth it just because someone suggested these things might be God's will. In fact, considering the time, money, and energy churches and religious people contribute to helping the victims of these and other tragedies, the idea that "This is God's will" doesn't seem to be any impediment to true concern or a willingness to help out.

Because these people have painful things they need to cope with, too?

Uh huh, and if "This is God's will" helps them cope with their personal crises, where's the problem?

If it effects their professional decisions, yeah I could see how that would be a problem, but like I said, I see that as unlikely, unless they're a bit touched.
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
I think to understand the answer to the 'Problem of Evil' we need to start thinking in more eastern ways.

1) That we live for eons in a soul developing process; not one body's duration. In that perspective any suffering in one life is short and temporary in this grander view. And even an unfortunate life and death has lessons for that soul and for those seeing and interacting with the unfortunate life.

2) That such things are not as random as they appear. There is chain of cause and effect through time we can not see.

3) That those currently living an unfortunate life will have victory 'enlightenment' at the end of the challenges.

4) That it is God at the core of everything and it is He who experiences the temporary good and bad fortunes. It is ultimately not Him imposing it on other separate beings. It is His play/drama where He separates Himself from Himself and returns Himself to Himself but this one ends with a happy ending for all. In any great play/drama there is always drama/suffering in the middle.


So, before someone shows me a picture of a suffering, dying child; let me say all we can do is show compassion and do the best we can at the physical level. And we can also view this and comfort others with the understanding that there are better places than this world (if their belief system is compatible with that idea; if not we can only do what little we can).
 
Last edited:

Flat Earth Kyle

Well-Known Member
I am. I am looking at it from the perspective of those who suffer tremendous loss and then are fed this condescending drivel. How dare you presume to tell these people that they are on trial?
I dare tell them that they have something great to look forward to, there is more to life than just this life. I dare say, even Christ came here to suffer and because of him our suffering can end.
Like it was with Job, every affliction they will have endured will be made worth it.
 

Quagmire

Imaginary talking monkey
Staff member
Premium Member
Imagine if we were talking about the Westboro Baptist Church.

Not sure what your point is.

Edit: and why would we substitute the Westboro Baptist Church for these people:

9-10ths_Penguin said:
. . .the people trying to prevent car crashes (or cure diseases, or whatever). . .
 
Last edited:

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
I would, if...
1) I knew it was a really valuable lesson that they needed to learn and knew how they would react to that lesson.
And 2) If I had the power to kiss their boo boos and make them all better.

There is an immense amount of suffering in this world that God allows to take place, but never once has God said that it would be permanent.
In the eternal perspective, this life is but a moment.
"It's okay to hurt people for the promise of invisible rewards because earthly life has negligible value."

This right here is a good example of the worst of religion.

... and I don't say that lightly.
 

dust1n

Zindīq
Not sure what your point is.

Edit: and why would we substitute the Westboro Baptist Church for these people:

The point was the argument by itself does not resolve criticism. Anyone could claim any action they do they believe to be God's will and that such action helps them to cope, with, whatever. There may or may not be a problem for numerous reasons regardless. That's all.
 

dust1n

Zindīq
I dare tell them that they have something great to look forward to, there is more to life than just this life. I dare say, even Christ came here to suffer and because of him our suffering can end.
Like it was with Job, every affliction they will have endured will be made worth it.

And if they aren't Christian?
 

Flat Earth Kyle

Well-Known Member
"It's okay to hurt people for the promise of invisible rewards because earthly life has negligible value."

This right here is a good example of the worst of religion.

... and I don't say that lightly.

I understand you are probably thinking of such atrocities as the Jim Jones incident. Though there are many of such instances where atrocities have been done presumably in the name of religion, I contend and claim that despite these tragedies the world is still far better off with religion than without it.

I would love to hear your response to this paper I wrote for my final in English 2010.
 

Attachments

  • A World Without Religion.pdf
    188.2 KB · Views: 54

Flat Earth Kyle

Well-Known Member
And if they aren't Christian?
I dare tell them they will still be given a chance to stand before a just God who can more than compensate for every trial that they went through, making it all more than worth it. But he won't force compensation upon them, they can deny it if they choose to, however I believe each and every person knew what they were getting themselves into when they chose to be born into this life.
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
In a this life is all we have type of mentality, the cruelty and suffering that goes on in life is unfathomable. However, there is more to life than just our mortal probation. Though those kids have it difficult, I can guarantee they are learning something that will be a great benefit for them in the life to come. Though their trials may be severe, God is just and will always make them worth it.
Do you have any idea how ignorant and pathetic you sound. This is no more than spoon-fed pablum that lets the more fortunate turn their backs on the less fortunate. "Oh, they'll be alright. God is looking after them during this learning process of theirs."

pais+educacao+educar+filhos+relacao+amor+zanga+zangar+amuado+pobreza+fome+amor.jpg

Yeah sure.

268x180_thumb_photo_55586_0599212ac.jpg

Wake up and see the light. Your god doesn't give a **** about these people. They were born suffering, lived suffering, and died suffering. Want to trade places so that you too can experience sorrow and suffering that's an essential part of our Heavenly Father's plan for our happiness? . . . . . . . . . yeah, I thought not. Your asinine, self-serving "guarantee" is as meaningful as their lives.
 
Last edited:

dust1n

Zindīq
I dare tell them they will still be given a chance to stand before a just God who can more than compensate for every trial that they went through, making it all more than worth it. But he won't force compensation upon them, they can deny it if they choose to, however I believe each and every person knew what they were getting themselves into when they chose to be born into this life.

Ugh, I have to account for this life and the life before this? Bummer.
 

Flat Earth Kyle

Well-Known Member
Thankfully, there exist examples of a less pathetic and more compassionate Christianity.
More compassionate? sure why not the more compassion the better. I am far from perfect, however I would say that out of compassion -- not to mention I would also be one of the numerous Mormon religious aid workers bringing food and supplies for those in need.

I love the words of holocaust survivor Rabbi Hugo Gryn, who once recounted a childhood memory from when he and his father were in Auschwitz.. During the season of Hanukkah, his father took a precious margarine ration and used it to light the Hanukkah candle. Young Hugo protested, saying this was food, but his father told him, “Listen, my child, we have learned that you can go three weeks without eating. You can go three days without drinking, but you cannot go three minutes without hope”
~Gryn, Hugo, and Naomi Gryn. Three Minutes of Hope: Hugo Gryn on the God Slot. London: Continuum, 2010. Print.

You say you are Jewish, do you not agree with me in the belief that all men will someday stand before a just God?
 

Flat Earth Kyle

Well-Known Member
Do you have any idea how ignorant and pathetic you sound. This is no more than spoon-fed pablum that lets the more fortunate turn their backs on the less fortunate. "Oh, they'll be alright. God is looking after them during this learning process of theirs."

pais+educacao+educar+filhos+relacao+amor+zanga+zangar+amuado+pobreza+fome+amor.jpg

Yeah sure.

268x180_thumb_photo_55586_0599212ac.jpg

Wake up and see the light. Your god doesn't give a **** about these people. They were born suffering, lived suffering, and died suffering. Want to trade places so that you too can experience sorrow and suffering that's an essential part of our Heavenly Father's plan for our happiness? . . . . . . . . . yeah, I thought not. Your asinine, self-serving "guarantee" is as meaningful as their lives.

I understand your grief.
I believe very strongly that we need to do everything we can to help these people. I don't know what part of the Mormon picture you see that says otherwise.
 
Top