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Jesus said he would show himself to those who love him. (Christians only)

J

Johnlove

Active Member
John 14:21) “Anybody who receives my commandments and keeps them will be one who loves me; and anybody who loves me will be loved by My Father, and I shall love him and show myself to him.”


Do you love Jesus? Has he shown himself to you?


John tells us that those who sin have never seen Jesus nor do they even know Jesus.


(1 John 3: 5 - 6) “Now you know that He appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in Him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen Him or known Him.”


It must be that Apostle John believed that Jesus would actually show himself to those who love him. Because he tells us a sinner has never seen Jesus.
 
J

Johnlove

Active Member
lostwanderingsoul said:
maybe "show " should be translated "reveal". Jesus can reveal Himself in many ways, not nexessarily just by physical vision
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Yes by saying reveal then people can rationalize that Jesus has revealed himself in other ways. That is why I put what John said about one who sins has never seen Jesus.
 
Kolibri

Kolibri

Well-Known Member
As regards 1 John 3:4,5 that can be easily resolved when one compares the verb tense used in this verse "to sin" and what tense is used at 1 John 2:1.

The Greek verb at 1 John 2:1 was in the the aorist tense, indicating the committing of an isolated sin, the kind of thing all of us do from time to time because we are imperfect.

The Greek verb at 1 John 3:4 uses the present tense, indicating an ongoing, habitual course of sin that would invalidate anyone’s claim to be a Christian.

"My little children, I am writing you these things so that you may not commit a sin. And yet, if anyone does commit as sin, we have a helper (or "an advocate.") with the Father, Jesus Christ, a righteous one."
- 1 John 2:1 (New World Translation)

"Everyone who practices sin is also practicing lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. You know, too, that he was made manifest to take away our sins, and there is no sin in him. Everyone remaining in union with him does not practice sin; no one who practices sin has either seen him or come to know him. Little children, let no one mislead you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as that one is righteous. The one who practices sin originates with the Devil, because the Devil has been sinning from the beginning. (or "from when he began.") For the purpose the Son of God was made manifest, to break up (or "destroy.") the works of the Devil."
- 1 John 3:4-8 (New World Translation)

Other translations also keep to this consideration of the verb tense here.

“practices sin,” “makes a practice of sinning” (CB); “does not habitually sin,” “does not practice sin” (Ph); “does not continue to sin” (TEV)
 
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J

Johnlove

Active Member
Kolibri said:
As regards 1 John 3:4,5 that can be easily resolved when one compares the verb tense used in this verse "to sin" and what tense is used at 1 John 2:1.

The Greek verb at 1 John 2:1 was in the the aorist tense in this verse, indicating the committing of an isolated sin, the kind of thing all of us do from time to time because we are imperfect.

The Greek verb at 1 John 3:4 uses the present tense, indicating an ongoing, habitual course of sin that would invalidate anyone’s claim to be a Christian.

"My little children, I am writing you these things so that you may not commit a sin. And yet, if anyone does commit as sin, we have a helper (or "an advocate.") with the Father, Jesus Christ, a righteous one."
- 1 John 2:1 (New World Translation)

"Everyone who practices sin is also practicing lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. You know, too, that he was made manifest to take away our sins, and there is no sin in him. Everyone remaining in union with him does not practice sin; no one who practices sin has either seen him or come to know him. Little children, let no one mislead you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as that one is righteous. The one who practices sin originates with the Devil, because the Devil has been sinning from the beginning. (or "from when he began.") For the purpose the Son of God was made manifest, to break up (or "destroy.") the works of the Devil."
- 1 John 3:4-8 (New World Translation)

Other translations also keep to this consideration of the verb tense here.

“practices sin,” “makes a practice of sinning” (CB); “does not habitually sin,” “does not practice sin” (Ph); “does not continue to sin” (TEV)
Click to expand...
(1 John 2:1-6) “My children, I am writing this to prevent you from sinning; but if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ, the upright. He is the sacrifice to expiate our sins, and not only ours, but also those of the whole world. In this way we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. Whoever says, 'I know him' without keeping his commandments, is a liar, and truth has no place in him. But anyone who does keep his word, in such a one God's love truly reaches its perfection. This is the proof that we are in God. Whoever claims to remain in him must act as he acted.”


Notice John is at first writing to children. Children are infants in Christ, and not yet spiritual. (1 Corinthians 3:1-3)


Also one should notice that Jesus Christ is our advocate, and it says say he is upright/just. A just advocate will make sure that one receives what he or she deserves. If one disobeys God Jesus will make sure he or she receives the just punishment.


Having an advocate does not mean that Jesus will just forget that one disobeyed him.


Then John goes on to say if one says they know God and don’t keep his commandments, they are liars.

John say one has to walk as Jesus walked to remain in Jesus.

Do you think that Jesus just did not make a practice of sin?

All a sinner can do if they believe the bible is the written Word of God, is rewrite it so they can feel righteous even though they still sin.



Notice what John tells us about those who hear the Word and don’t live that Word.


(John 12:47-48) “If anyone hears my words and does not keep them faithfully, it is not I who shall condemn him, since I have come not to condemn the world, but to save the world: he who rejects me and refuses my words has his judge already; the word itself that I have spoken will be his judge on the last day.”
 
Kolibri

Kolibri

Well-Known Member
Johnlove said:
Notice John is at first writing to children. Children are infants in Christ, and not yet spiritual. (1 Corinthians 3:1-3)
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He was very likely not referencing 1 Corinthians but Jesus words at Matthew 18:4; Mark 10:15 and Luke 18:17

"Truly I say to you, whoever does not receive the Kingdom of God like a young child will by no means enter into it."
- Mark 10:15; Luke 18:17

The "my" part very well could be a reference to Matthew 19:29 and Mark 10:39. John was by now an old man pushing 100 years of age.
Most certainly this was a term of endearment to Christians of all ages, most of whom were currently younger than he was.
 
Kolibri

Kolibri

Well-Known Member
Johnlove said:
Do you think that Jesus just did not make a practice of sin?

All a sinner can do if they believe the bible is the written Word of God, is rewrite it so they can feel righteous even though they still sin.
Click to expand...


If Jesus committed just one sin, he would not have been perfect. He had to be totally clean to be able to ransom mankind. You, I and every other human living today has committed at least one sin or is doomed to from the time they are born.
It was part of what made Jesus so rare.

None of them can ever redeem a brother
Or give to God a ransom for him,
(The ransom (or "redemption.") price for their life (or "soul.") is so precious
That it is always beyond their reach.);
That he should live forever and not see the pit. (or "grave.")
- Psalm 49:7-9
 
J

Johnlove

Active Member
When people who admit to me that they still sin, it says to me that they are being led by the devil.


Apostle John tells us those who sin are of the devil. The devil will try to deny all scripture that tells people that a Christian does not sin.


(1 John 3:8) “Whoever lives sinfully belongs to the devil, since the devil has been a sinner from the beginning. This was the purpose of the appearing of the Son of God, to undo the work of the devil.”


The devil will have people retranslate the bible to say John did not say one can’t sin, and he will show those who are of him how to disregard what Paul said about sin also.


(Romans 6:10-11) “For by dying, he is dead to sin once and for all, and now the life that he lives is life with God. In the same way, you must see yourselves as being dead to sin but alive for God in Christ Jesus.”


(Romans 6: 1-2) “What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?”



(Romans 8: 4) “He did this in order that the law’s just demands might be satisfied in us, who behave not as our unspiritual nature but as the Spirit dictates.”


Notice in the following scripture that John says a Child of God can’t sin. It in no way says that one can’t practice sin.
 
Kolibri

Kolibri

Well-Known Member
Johnlove said:
All a sinner can do if they believe the bible is the written Word of God, is rewrite it so they can feel righteous even though they still sin.
Click to expand...

Translating is not rewriting. Some translation efforts are more accurate than others. Purposely hiding the meaning would be rewriting. Not all inaccurate translations were done purposely.
 
Kolibri

Kolibri

Well-Known Member
We do not stop sinning altogether when we become Christians. We desist from sinning willfully. There is a difference. But what we are debating is whether John's writing are in harmony with the rest of the scripture. As regards all of us James wrote:

"Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, knowing that we will receive a heavier (or "stricter.") judgement. For we all stumble (or "make mistakes.") many times. If anyone does not stumble in word, he is a perfect man, able to bridle also his whole body." - James 3:1,2

Can you bridle your tongue if provoked? I certainly know I've had to pray for forgiveness many times. It is as Jesus taught us to pray:

"And forgive us our sins, for we ourselves also forgive everyone who is in debt to us."
- Luke 11:4a

We truthful stop making a practice of sin. We still make mistakes every day. Though, hopefully avoiding altogether gross sin requiring an application and encouragement found at James 5:13-20
 
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J

Johnlove

Active Member
Kolibri said:
He was very likely not referencing 1 Corinthians but Jesus words at Matthew 18:4; Mark 10:15 and Luke 18:17

"Truly I say to you, whoever does not receive the Kingdom of God like a young child will by no means enter into it."
- Mark 10:15; Luke 18:17

The "my" part very well could be a reference to Matthew 19:29 and Mark 10:39. John was by now an old man pushing 100 years of age.
Most certainly this was a term of endearment to Christians of all ages, most of whom were currently younger than he was.
Click to expand...
Or John could very well have been referring to what Paul said in the following scripture.


(1 Corinthians 3:1-3) “Brothers, I myself was unable to speak to you as people of the Spirit; I treated you as sensual men, still infants in Christ. What I fed you with was milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it; and indeed, you are still not ready for it since you are still unspiritual. Isn’t that obvious from all the jealousy and wrangling that there is among you, from the way that you go on behaving like ordinary people.”


By the way have you seen Jesus?
 
Kolibri

Kolibri

Well-Known Member
Johnlove said:
By the way have you seen Jesus?
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"For where there are two or three gathered together in my name, there I am in their midst."
- Matthew 18:20

Without seeing him with my physical eyes, I've seen the evidence that this scripture is accurate.
 
J

Johnlove

Active Member
Kolibri said:
We do not stop sinning altogether when we become Christians. We desist from sinning willfully. There is a difference. But what we are debating is whether John's writing are in harmony with the rest of the scripture. As regards all of us James wrote:

"Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, knowing that we will receive a heavier (or "stricter.") judgement. For we all stumble (or "make mistakes.") many times. If anyone does not stumble in word, he is a perfect man, able to bridle also his whole body." - James 3:1,2

Can you bridle your tongue if provoked? I certainly know I've had to pray for forgiveness many times. It is as Jesus taught us to pray:

"And forgive us our sins, for we ourselves also forgive everyone who is in debt to us."
- Luke 11:4a

We truthful stop making a practice of sin. We still make mistakes every day. Though, hopefully avoiding altogether gross sin requiring an application and encouragement from James 5:13-20
Click to expand...
No I can’t obey all of God’s Commandments, but with the grace that God gives me then I am able to obey God at all times. It is God in me that makes it so I can walk as Jesus walked.


By the way have you seen Jesus?
 
J

Johnlove

Active Member
Kolibri said:
"For where there are two or three gathered together in my name, there I am in their midst."
- Matthew 18:20

Without seeing him with my physical eyes, I've seen the evidence that this scripture is accurate.
Click to expand...
That is not what your accurate scripture says.


(John 14:21) “Anybody who receives my commandments and keeps them will be one who loves me; and anybody who loves me will be loved by My Father, and I shall love him and show myself to him.”


Not only that but Jesus said he would call his own out by name, and they would only follow him.


(John 10:1-5) “'In all truth I tell you, anyone who does not enter the sheepfold through the gate, but climbs in some other way, is a thief and a bandit. He who enters through the gate is the shepherd of the flock; the gatekeeper lets him in, the sheep hear his voice, one by one he calls his own sheep and leads them out. When he has brought out all those that are his, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow because they know his voice. They will never follow a stranger, but will run away from him because they do not recognize the voice of strangers.'”


(John 10:14-16) “I am the good shepherd; I know my own and my own know me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for my sheep. And there are other sheep I have that are not of this fold, and these I have to lead as well. They too will listen to my voice, and there will be only one flock, and one shepherd.


By the way when did Jehovah's Witnesses become Christians?
 
Kolibri

Kolibri

Well-Known Member
Thinking about it, John himself claimed to be a sinner even while he wrote that we should not practice sin (remembering the verb tense).

"If we make the statement, 'We have no sin,' we are misleading ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous so as to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we make the statement, 'We have not sinned,' we are making him a liar, and his word is not in us."
- 1 John 1:8-10
 
J

Johnlove

Active Member
Kolibri said:
Translating is not rewriting. Some translation efforts are more accurate than others. Purposely hiding the meaning would be rewriting. Not all inaccurate translations were done purposely.
Click to expand...
Yes and who told you that your translation is right. Was it someone who still sinned?


If that is true then it is the devils translation.


(1 John 3:8) “Whoever lives sinfully belongs to the devil, since the devil has been a sinner from the beginning. This was the purpose of the appearing of the Son of God, to undo the work of the devil.”
 
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