Desert Snake
Veteran Member
If the deity is invisible, how do you actually know he/she/it has no form? Perhaps it just hides it's form? Is there some philosophical reason why it doesn't/wouldn't have form?
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For those who believe in an ''invisible deity''.
- Thread starter Desert Snake
- Start date
Breathe
Hostis humani generis
Couldn't you interact/find it in some observable way if it was just invisible as opposed to formless?
Doesn't invisibleness require physicality? Or am I requiring that when it's not necessary?
And if not, what would be the difference between formlessness and invisibleness?
Doesn't invisibleness require physicality? Or am I requiring that when it's not necessary?
And if not, what would be the difference between formlessness and invisibleness?
My understanding is that God/Brahman is pure consciousness and all forms are just His play.
Depends on the deity.
In some cases, it is entirely possible that an otherworldly deity has (or had) a physical form, particularly if one subscribes to the idea of otherworlds in general (for the rest of you, think multiverses I guess?).
In other cases, the deity cannot have a physical form at all because that would go against the nature of what it is. For example, the Spirit of Learning is an ideal, not a physical thing, so it does not have any sort of physical form. It has physical manifestations - books, libraries, and so forth - but the Spirit of Learning itself is not a physical thing and could be said to be "invisible."
In some cases, it is entirely possible that an otherworldly deity has (or had) a physical form, particularly if one subscribes to the idea of otherworlds in general (for the rest of you, think multiverses I guess?).
In other cases, the deity cannot have a physical form at all because that would go against the nature of what it is. For example, the Spirit of Learning is an ideal, not a physical thing, so it does not have any sort of physical form. It has physical manifestations - books, libraries, and so forth - but the Spirit of Learning itself is not a physical thing and could be said to be "invisible."
GoodbyeDave
Well-Known Member
Physical objects cannot be eternal (second law of thermodynamics). Hence, if gods were material, they would have "worn out", just as the current crop of stars evolved from the remnants of older ones. I'm not sure how Mormons deal with that one, but no doubt someone will enlighten us!
Of course, that doesn't preclude a spirit manifesting in a body -- after all, I've done that myself. Most Pagans also accept that a god may manifest in a man-made image.
Of course, that doesn't preclude a spirit manifesting in a body -- after all, I've done that myself. Most Pagans also accept that a god may manifest in a man-made image.
Guy Threepwood
Mighty Pirate
He created 'form' /matter as we know it, so he would not be bound by the limitations of his own creation.
Aside from this, it is consistent that a creator would require faith, belief, personal discovery, and for creation itself to be a puzzle which constantly test our ingenuity and curiosity to it's limits, personal discovery and learning, what better way to appreciate anything?
On the other hand, for a naturalistic mechanism to accidentally achieve the same, would have to be chalked up to yet one more bizarre fluke
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
Would you say that your deity has no form, though?
Hmm. How many invisible deities do you believe in?
Manifesting in a body is certainly 'form'.
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
I am slightly unclear as to what you are saying. Are you saying that you don't believe in an invisible deity? An invisible deity in the context of the OP means that it never commits to form, or cannot commit to form, etc. Not that one attribute is merely invisible, or formless.
oops! I noticed that you are relating this to faith. Yes, interesting.
Theweirdtophat
Well-Known Member
It may be invisible to your eyes but perhaps not from your mind or if you use your 3rd eye. One has said that through books, one seeks God, but through Meditation, one finds him.
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
I should specify, here. I mean ''form''. An invisible deity that does not manifest in form, hence invisible.
Tumah
Veteran Member
Well, for It to have form would probably require that dimension pre-exist the Deity, so that it could be defined. This would make dimension greater than the Deity.
Guy Threepwood
Mighty Pirate
I don't think he manifests directly in his own individual form, no- again that wouldn't make sense since he is creator of form itself as we know it. So invisible I suppose would apply in this sense..
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
This is interesting. For people who worship Jesus as G-d, this might make sense in the wording that Jesus is the exact image of G-d. For us, this would mean the father, of course. Though for many Xians the father is different from the 'G-d' idea, but I think we can leave that aside for now.
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Desert Snake
Veteran Member
Hmm o.k.
Tumah
Veteran Member
How would that make sense?
Also, there would be an additional problem there along the same lines:
Without dimension, how can there be said to be a god and a Jesus? Without dimension, there is no way to establish a concept of trinity. Even a conceptual three, requires the existence of a conceptual dimension.
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
Strict Trinitarians do not believe that the father is Jesus, apparently. I was taking the trinity idea out of the discussion; the father manifesting as Jesus, though, could be a manifestation of image. Hence, Jesus would be ''picture'' of the father, essentially. One of His forms.
Neither of us are Trinitarians, substitute 'x' for Jesus, if you like.
Tumah
Veteran Member
But without dimension, how could there be an image?
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
About dimension, I'm a tad unclear as to why this would limit the form manifestations of the invisible Deity. Since He is the creator, does it not make sense in some way, that He enabled a way to access the physical dimension? He did with Moses, we know that. He affected the wandering through the desert as well.
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
You'll have to explain this further, I'm not sure what you mean.
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
Ah, I think I know what you are saying. I think He could just create an image. I mean, why not?