High stakes as Supreme Court considers same-sex marriage case

Cephus · May 14, 2015

Akivah said:
So as I stated, homosexuals can already get any rights that married people get automatically, they just have to file extra paperwork.

If a hospital did that, then that should be fixed by law.

And has been explained to you already, that's simply not true. The hospital issue is very real, so are a lot of other things that simply cannot be provided for by filling out paperwork. And we are fixing it by law, we're giving them the right to marry and thus fixing all of those issues.

JoStories · May 14, 2015

Marisa said:
I didn't mean to imply that racism is over, only that overt, burning crosses in people's yards racism is mostly over. It now hides behind things like birtherism, and #whitelivesmatter.

Well that's true enough but I have seen some more serious racism acts as well. In Hawaii, I was assigned to the ICU and there was a transgender female. The other nurses, all Hawaiian, flat out refused to care for her. And she had been beaten so badly she was in a coma. Several gangs in Oakland, when I worked at county (highland) were all about the Asians V the blacks or whatever race, knifings, gunshots, even an ice pick to the liver. It's not as dead or covert ad you think, sadly.

Marisa · May 14, 2015

JoStories said:
Well that's true enough but I have seen some more serious racism acts as well. In Hawaii, I was assigned to the ICU and there was a transgender female. The other nurses, all Hawaiian, flat out refused to care for her. And she had been beaten so badly she was in a coma. Several gangs in Oakland, when I worked at county (highland) were all about the Asians V the blacks or whatever race, knifings, gunshots, even an ice pick to the liver. It's not as dead or covert ad you think, sadly.

Holy crap, that's horrible!

JoStories · May 15, 2015

Marisa said:
Holy crap, that's horrible!

It is Marisa. And why I said racism is truly alive and well.

Akivah · May 15, 2015

Marisa said:
NO, they can't.

ETA: Here, since I know you love learning something you didn't know before, following is a list of benefits marriage provides that same sex couples don't have equal access to:

Overview of Federal Benefits Granted to Married Couples

There are 1,138 benefits, rights and protections provided on the basis of marital status in Federal law. In June 2013, the Supreme Court’s decision inU.S. v. Windsor struck down part of the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA), which excluded same-sex married couples from recognition for all federal benefits and programs [1]. Because of this ruling, same-sex married couples across the country have been recognized for federal purposes for the first time.

I agree that the state patchwork of differing laws is unworkable. IMO, the best solution is for the Supreme Court to correctly reverse itself and revive DOMA in its entirety. However, the only time the Supreme Court overrides itself is when its' composed of different members. So we're stuck with their error for at least a generation.

Marisa · May 15, 2015

Akivah said:
I agree that the state patchwork of differing laws is unworkable. IMO, the best solution is for the Supreme Court to correctly reverse itself and revive DOMA in its entirety. However, the only time the Supreme Court overrides itself is when its' composed of different members. So we're stuck with their error for at least a generation.

SCOTUS has made many errors, IMO. Extending freedoms to carbon based life forms hasn't been one of them.

Cephus · May 15, 2015

JoStories said:
It is Marisa. And why I said racism is truly alive and well.

Oh, it is, but it tends to be coming from the left, not the right. It isn't whites vs. someone, as the left wants people to believe, it's minorities fighting amongst themselves, which the left doesn't want to talk about.

MoonWater · May 15, 2015

Here's hoping the supreme court continues in the direction of progress. Does anyone know when they estimate they'll have a decision by?

Marisa · May 15, 2015

MoonWater said:
Here's hoping the supreme court continues in the direction of progress. Does anyone know when they estimate they'll have a decision by?

June is what I heard.

MoonWater · May 15, 2015

Marisa said:
June is what I heard.

oh, so not too far off. I'll be keeping my fingers crossed

Awkward Fingers · May 15, 2015

Akivah said:
I agree that the state patchwork of differing laws is unworkable. IMO, the best solution is for the Supreme Court to correctly reverse itself and revive DOMA in its entirety. However, the only time the Supreme Court overrides itself is when its' composed of different members. So we're stuck with their error for at least a generation.

The problem is, you've still not shown once WHY it would be the better idea to restore DOMA.
What argument do you have against same sex marriage other than just "tradition" or religious belief?

JoStories · May 16, 2015

Akivah said:
I agree that the state patchwork of differing laws is unworkable. IMO, the best solution is for the Supreme Court to correctly reverse itself and revive DOMA in its entirety. However, the only time the Supreme Court overrides itself is when its' composed of different members. So we're stuck with their error for at least a generation.

The question is why revive DOMA? What harm does it do to you for me to have been able to marry my love? Where is the harm at all? When you can explain that, I might be interested in speaking with you but as long as your opinions are knee jerk reactions to what you perceive as 'icky' or as the downfall of modern society, you opinion is moot. And please spare me the 'children are harmed by exposure to the gay lifestyle' argument, my cousin and his husband adopted 2 children no one wanted and raised them. Both, btw, are totally heterosexual.

viole · May 16, 2015

Akivah said:
So as I stated, homosexuals can already get any rights that married people get automatically, they just have to file extra paperwork.

If a hospital did that, then that should be fixed by law.

Maybe they want the right to feel equal and not having to file extra paperwork. Would you like to have to file extra paperwork so that you can acquire the same rights as non Jews?

Ciao

- viole

Marisa · May 16, 2015

JoStories said:
The question is why revive DOMA? What harm does it do to you for me to have been able to marry my love? Where is the harm at all? When you can explain that, I might be interested in speaking with you but as long as your opinions are knee jerk reactions to what you perceive as 'icky' or as the downfall of modern society, you opinion is moot. And please spare me the 'children are harmed by exposure to the gay lifestyle' argument, my cousin and his husband adopted 2 children no one wanted and raised them. Both, btw, are totally heterosexual.

There have been many studies done which indicate that no psychological damage is done to children who have 2 moms or 2 dads. There was one study, the Regnarus study out of UT, which disagrees but there are some things of note about this "study". Though thoroughly discredited, this study is still touted by anti gay proponents.

The Regnerus Fallout

Mark Regnerus Admits His 'Family Structures' Study Wasn't About Gay Parenting | ThinkProgress

JoStories · May 16, 2015

Marisa said:
There have been many studies done which indicate that no psychological damage is done to children who have 2 moms or 2 dads. There was one study, the Regnarus study out of UT, which disagrees but there are some things of note about this "study". Though thoroughly discredited, this study is still touted by anti gay proponents.

The Regnerus Fallout

Mark Regnerus Admits His 'Family Structures' Study Wasn't About Gay Parenting | ThinkProgress

I was not familiar with the Regnerus study but after reading it, I am disgusted by the man and his alleged research. His bias is overt and the backing and funding should have been prohibited on its face.

Shadow Wolf · May 16, 2015

Cephus said:
Oh, it is, but it tends to be coming from the left, not the right. It isn't whites vs. someone, as the left wants people to believe, it's minorities fighting amongst themselves, which the left doesn't want to talk about.

As a transwoman, I can say that, yes, the transcommunity does fight and quarrel amongst itself. It's sad and embarrassing.
But we do face a ton against the non-transcommunity, especially from the right-wing who wants to make it so we can't legally identify as our identified gender, make it harder to change our legal gender marker, and even prevent us from using any public restrooms. Stories of hospitals refusing to treat trans-patients are not uncommon. If I can remember the name of it, there is even a documentary that featured a FtM who developed cervical cancer, but because he was a male, he could not get treatment for his remaining female parts, which ultimately killed him.
In terms of race? That one is still very much alive and well. While many people have gotten over it, there are still many whites who hate blacks and blacks who hate whites. And, if you notice the right-wing voter-ID laws, they are notorious for having detrimental effects on demographs that tend to vote Democrat, such as black people and college students.

Cephus · May 16, 2015

Shadow Wolf said:
As a transwoman, I can say that, yes, the transcommunity does fight and quarrel amongst itself. It's sad and embarrassing.
But we do face a ton against the non-transcommunity, especially from the right-wing who wants to make it so we can't legally identify as our identified gender, make it harder to change our legal gender marker, and even prevent us from using any public restrooms. Stories of hospitals refusing to treat trans-patients are not uncommon. If I can remember the name of it, there is even a documentary that featured a FtM who developed cervical cancer, but because he was a male, he could not get treatment for his remaining female parts, which ultimately killed him.
In terms of race? That one is still very much alive and well. While many people have gotten over it, there are still many whites who hate blacks and blacks who hate whites. And, if you notice the right-wing voter-ID laws, they are notorious for having detrimental effects on demographs that tend to vote Democrat, such as black people and college students.

But the left wing refuses to talk about black racism, even though it is more prevalent than white racism. Blacks are allowed to get away with it with impunity whereas whites aren't allowed to even give the impression of racism. Whites have to give special attention to the feelings of minorities but minorities are not expected to give any attention to the feelings of whites, in fact, they get to be openly racist and the left will make excuses for why this is a good thing.

And besides, how are "people who tend to vote Democrat" or "college students" a distinct racial group?

Shadow Wolf · May 16, 2015

Cephus said:
But the left wing refuses to talk about black racism, even though it is more prevalent than white racism. Blacks are allowed to get away with it with impunity whereas whites aren't allowed to even give the impression of racism. Whites have to give special attention to the feelings of minorities but minorities are not expected to give any attention to the feelings of whites, in fact, they get to be openly racist and the left will make excuses for why this is a good thing.

You are over generalizing. Sure, some do make these excuses, but they are of a slim minority. The "crazy SJW" type of stereotype does exist, but you can't lump the entire left as this sort. But, the reality is, there are those on both the left and right who are racist and who fuel racism. But to say "the left" on such a general term is just as accurate to say everyone in Texas is racist.

Cephus said:
And besides, how are "people who tend to vote Democrat" or "college students" a distinct racial group?

It was an example of discriminatory right-wing practices.

Cephus · May 16, 2015

Shadow Wolf said:
You are over generalizing. Sure, some do make these excuses, but they are of a slim minority. The "crazy SJW" type of stereotype does exist, but you can't lump the entire left as this sort. But, the reality is, there are those on both the left and right who are racist and who fuel racism. But to say "the left" on such a general term is just as accurate to say everyone in Texas is racist.

No, if it doesn't apply to you, don't take it personally. It stops people from having to spell out boundaries every time they open their mouths. I don't get upset when people criticize the right wing "conservatives" because I am not part of that group.

[quote[It was an example of discriminatory right-wing practices.[/QUOTE]

There's nothing discriminatory about it. Or is this just another example of left-wing victim politics?

Akivah · May 18, 2015

Awkward Fingers said:
What argument do you have against same sex marriage other than just "tradition" or religious belief?

What wrong with those arguments?

High stakes as Supreme Court considers same-sex marriage case

Relentlessly Rational

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Relentlessly Rational

Warrior Bard

Well-Known Member

Warrior Bard

Omphaloskeptic

Well-Known Member

Ontological Naturalist

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Certified People sTabber

Relentlessly Rational

Certified People sTabber

Relentlessly Rational

Well-Known Member