Can Satan Be forgiven?

rusra02 · May 15, 2015

Monk Of Reason said:
What caused him to desire this?

Each of us can see the possibilities in a certain situation. If we have access, for example, to a large sum of money, we realize the potential to take that money for ourselves. Some in that position allow desire to grow for the money, and steal or embezzle it, while others reject that course because it is wrong to steal. I believe Satan came to think too highly of himself. He saw the potential to grab power and authority over God's human creation. Instead of rejecting that treachery, he allowed the desire to be equal to God grow and fester until it moved him to act. The Bible warns against giving authority over others in the faith to "a newly converted man, for fear that he might get puffed up with pride and fall into the judgment passed on the Devil."(1 Timothy 3:6) in Satan's case, pride moved him to commit evil, and I believe continues to do so.

Monk Of Reason · May 15, 2015

rusra02 said:
Each of us can see the possibilities in a certain situation. If we have access, for example, to a large sum of money, we realize the potential to take that money for ourselves. Some in that position allow desire to grow for the money, and steal or embezzle it, while others reject that course because it is wrong to steal. I believe Satan came to think too highly of himself. He saw the potential to grab power and authority over God's human creation. Instead of rejecting that treachery, he allowed the desire to be equal to God grow and fester until it moved him to act. The Bible warns against giving authority over others in the faith to "a newly converted man, for fear that he might get puffed up with pride and fall into the judgment passed on the Devil."(1 Timothy 3:6) in Satan's case, pride moved him to commit evil, and I believe continues to do so.

But where did that desire come from? What made him "choose" this?

rusra02 · May 15, 2015

Monk Of Reason said:
But where did that desire come from? What made him "choose" this?

What makes someone choose to become a thief? Or a rapist? They desire to do or have something they are not entitled to. Desires, good or bad, begin in what a person thinks about. For example, it is not wrong to think about the possibility of stealing. But nurturing that thought rather than rejecting it can lead a formerly honest person to become a thief. Desire grows like a poisonous plant until it moves one to bad actions. (James 1:14,15) On the other hand, controlling our thinking can move us to proper actions. I think Philippians 2:5,6 illustrates this; "Keep this mental attitude in you that was also in Christ Jesus, who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God." Unlike Satan, Jesus did not allow wrong thinking lead to wrong desire. He simply rejected, gave no consideration, to such an arrogant act of challenging Jehovah's authority.

Monk Of Reason · May 15, 2015

rusra02 said:
What makes someone choose to become a thief? Or a rapist? They desire to do or have something they are not entitled to. Desires, good or bad, begin in what a person thinks about. For example, it is not wrong to think about the possibility of stealing. But nurturing that thought rather than rejecting it can lead a formerly honest person to become a thief. Desire grows like a poisonous plant until it moves one to bad actions. (James 1:14,15) On the other hand, controlling our thinking can move us to proper actions. I think Philippians 2:5,6 illustrates this; "Keep this mental attitude in you that was also in Christ Jesus, who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God." Unlike Satan, Jesus did not allow wrong thinking lead to wrong desire. He simply rejected, gave no consideration, to such an arrogant act of challenging Jehovah's authority.

There are always reasons. People don't simply do things without reasons. Unless this whole thing was random. Was it innate? Was it random? Or was there a reason?

Ponder This · May 15, 2015

I seem to recall that people were in a state of of unforgiveable sin before Christ showed up. Entire cultures were irredeemable and had to be wiped from the face of the Earth.
It was so bad that that the short story is: Satan had won; there was no way to redeem the people of the Earth unless God had a son, sent him to Earth, and had him pay for everything so that people could enter Heaven again.

rusra02 · May 16, 2015

Monk Of Reason said:
There are always reasons. People don't simply do things without reasons. Unless this whole thing was random. Was it innate? Was it random? Or was there a reason?

The reason was pride, arrogance, and thinking to highly of himself. Common failings among men also.

Monk Of Reason · May 16, 2015

rusra02 said:
The reason was pride, arrogance, and thinking to highly of himself. Common failings among men also.

Why did he have those? Where did it come from? Was he programmed with those traits? Or did he spontaneously obtain them/

Sabour · May 16, 2015

Mycroft said:
If you can't forgive your worst enemy, then the sum of all subsequent forgiveness is empty.

You are putting Satan in the wrong status. Satan is the worst enemy for us.

God would accept any true repentance from anyone.

Repentance involves the following

1. Leaving the sin;
2. Remorse over having committed the sin;
3. Resolve never to return to the sin;
(If it relates to the rights of another person, then to) Return the rights or property one wrongly took

As we know, Satan will do non of these.

rusra02 · May 16, 2015

Monk Of Reason said:
Why did he have those? Where did it come from? Was he programmed with those traits? Or did he spontaneously obtain them/

He had free will, the gift of moral choice. He allowed these bad traits to develop within himself, again, by what he chose to think upon and desire. He could have rejected such things, but chose not to. So bad deeds begin with bad motives, and bad motives begin with allowing a desire for what is bad to develop within oneself. Like Jesus did, Satan could have rejected the thought of challenging his Creator, but instead allowed that thinking to give rise to wrong desires, that in turn, led to wrong and willful conduct. Thus, I believe a perfect creature can sin. Satan was perfect, morally flawless, and could have kept integrity, but did not. Same with Adam and Eve.

Monk Of Reason · May 16, 2015

rusra02 said:
He had free will, the gift of moral choice. He allowed these bad traits to develop within himself, again, by what he chose to think upon and desire. He could have rejected such things, but chose not to. So bad deeds begin with bad motives, and bad motives begin with allowing a desire for what is bad to develop within oneself. Like Jesus did, Satan could have rejected the thought of challenging his Creator, but instead allowed that thinking to give rise to wrong desires, that in turn, led to wrong and willful conduct. Thus, I believe a perfect creature can sin. Satan was perfect, morally flawless, and could have kept integrity, but did not. Same with Adam and Eve.

So it was a choice? What made him choose it? Was it random that he chose it or was it innate within him to want to choose it? If he was made morally flawless what caused him to fault?

averageJOE · May 16, 2015

0ne-answer said:
You are putting Satan in the wrong status. Satan is the worst enemy for us.

God would accept any true repentance from anyone.

Repentance involves the following

1. Leaving the sin;
2. Remorse over having committed the sin;
3. Resolve never to return to the sin;
(If it relates to the rights of another person, then to) Return the rights or property one wrongly took

As we know, Satan will do non of these.

Interesting.
You are speaking for both god AND Satan?

rusra02 · May 19, 2015

Monk Of Reason said:
So it was a choice? What made him choose it? Was it random that he chose it or was it innate within him to want to choose it? If he was made morally flawless what caused him to fault?

I think I answered that question already. Please re-read carefully previous posts.

Monk Of Reason · May 19, 2015

rusra02 said:
I think I answered that question already. Please re-read carefully previous posts.

I did read it. You never answered where his faults came from. He did it because of arrogance but where did that arrogance come from? What was the first cause of his fall? If he was made perfect where did it come from?

rusra02 · May 19, 2015

Monk Of Reason said:
I did read it. You never answered where his faults came from. He did it because of arrogance but where did that arrogance come from? What was the first cause of his fall? If he was made perfect where did it come from?

What he chose to think upon and allow himself to desire, despite knowing it was contrary to God's will. (James 1:14,15) I already explained this.

Monk Of Reason · May 19, 2015

rusra02 said:
What he chose to think upon and allow himself to desire, despite knowing it was contrary to God's will. (James 1:14,15) I already explained this.

What made him choose to think this? What was the cause of that? Was it random or was it innate?

Jayhawker Soule · May 19, 2015

Levite said:
The satan has nothing for which to repent. Whichever angel holds the title of satan at a given time is irrelevant: angels have no free will, therefore cannot transgress, therefore can have nothing for which to repent, or for which to be forgiven.

Speculating with authority about Satan as a cosmic source of evil - a late addition to Judaism and an apparent fixation for many Christians - is more than a little problematic. So, for example, we speak of Satan lacking free will yet frequently share the midrash wherein God challenges ...

My creations are drowning and you are singing before me?

... clearly suggesting the contrary.

Perhaps we can revisit HaSatan when we read Parashat Balak on the 4th of July ...

Levite · May 19, 2015

Jayhawker Soule said:
Speculating with authority about Satan as a cosmic source of evil - a late addition to Judaism and an apparent fixation for many Christians - is more than a little problematic. So, for example, we speak of Satan lacking free will yet frequently share the midrash wherein God challenges ...

My creations are drowning and you are singing before me?

... clearly suggesting the contrary.

Perhaps we can revisit HaSatan when we read Parashat Balak on the 4th of July ...

Actually I was apparently being too subtle in alluding to the idea that for us, the satan is not a cosmic source of evil at all. That the original Jewish conception of the satan does not include him being a "fallen angel," since angels cannot rebel and "fall." And that even if one accepts the Rabbinic notion of the satan as the sar (patron angel) of the yetzer ha-ra (chaotic impulse), that still does not make him a cosmic source of evil or contrary to God's will, but only another angel serving the function God sets in a universe that requires chaos and base impulses to exist.

Unification · May 19, 2015

Monk Of Reason said:
If Satan repented could he be saved?

If the ego died to itself, of course it changes its mind and becomes a United, whole, renewed mind.

Unification · May 19, 2015

Monk Of Reason said:
I did read it. You never answered where his faults came from. He did it because of arrogance but where did that arrogance come from? What was the first cause of his fall? If he was made perfect where did it come from?

The ego arises when it falls from a higher state of consciousness (heaven) and the mind becomes separated and no longer whole.
The cause is dabbling consciousness with emotions and the affairs of the mind and other minds. A lot has to do with conditioning from the minds of family, friends, religion, governments, etc.

Unification · May 19, 2015

0ne-answer said:
You are putting Satan in the wrong status. Satan is the worst enemy for us.

God would accept any true repentance from anyone.

Repentance involves the following

1. Leaving the sin;
2. Remorse over having committed the sin;
3. Resolve never to return to the sin;
(If it relates to the rights of another person, then to) Return the rights or property one wrongly took

As we know, Satan will do non of these.

Our ego's of self are our own worst enemies. Clouded and decieved minds. Too close for most of us to realize, yet right in our temple (brain/mind). In the business of blaming others and mythical creatures.

Know thyself.

Can Satan Be forgiven?

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