e.r.m.
Church of Christ
They're both a big deal. I'm scheduled to get married on May 30th.YOUR saying baptism isn't a big deal?... sorry, I just couldn't resist.
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Wondering About Faith (Ephesians 2)
- Thread starter Spockrates
- Start date
e.r.m.
Church of Christ
I do. The first century got along without the final version. The books you mentioned were not critical to salvation.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
No, I didn't respond to it, but if you'll notice, I did "like" it (as soon as I read it, actually).
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
I'm sorry, but that is nothing more to your opinion. Regardless of whether it was the 1st century, the 6th, the 15th or the 21st, people get along with the version of the Bible they have. We could remove any book from the Bible we use today and it wouldn't really impact anybody's salvation. It would have some effect on their knowledge of the truth, and that would be unfortunate, but it almost sounds as if you are saying that it's the Bible itself that saves. I know you're not, but that's how you're coming across. We have no absolute guarantees that 300 years from now, the Bible won't have been changed again.
katiemygirl
CHRISTIAN
Yes I saw that, but that was not the post I was referring to. It was the post after the one you liked. Thank you for that, by the way.
Here is my second post to you:
You asked many questions in your post. They are good questions. It would take me a lot of time and research to answer each.
For me, it's a matter of faith. I believe we have all God wanted us to have in those 66 books. I've no reason to go outside. I made the decision to believe in Scripture alone the same way I made the decision to believe Jesus is the Son of God. My decisions were based on a multitude of Scriptures, which gave me faith in both Jesus and God's word.
I'm curious if you think there's something I MUST know, which is found outside of the Bible, that will effect my salvation or direct my christian walk. IOW, what detrimental thing isit that you think I'm missing?
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katiemygirl
CHRISTIAN
We already see many groups writing their own Bibles, changing words, phrases, sentences, etc. But we do have a guarantee that His word will remain forever.
Jesus said, “Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away” (Matthew 24:35; Mark 13:31; Luke 21:33). .
“The grass withers and the flowers fall, but the word of our God stands forever” (Isaiah 40:8).
Peter quoted the same passage and referred to it as “the word that was preached to you” (1 Peter 1:24-25).
See also Psalm 12.
e.r.m.
Church of Christ
Correct, I'm not saying that. Furthest thing from my mind. Thank you for letting me know how it sounded though. Just that the Bible has the knowledge thereof. Plenty of people read the Bible and are not saved.
For most of the last 300 years, the Bible translations have grown more accurate, but there are some disturbing trends like the NIV adding "brothers and sisters" where the greek only says brothers. I think there's too much knowledge out there these days for the International Bible Society and other groups to pull the wool over our eyes in major ways. I believe God will protect his Word. Still we must remain vigilant.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Congrats!They're both a big deal. I'm scheduled to get married on May 30th.
e.r.m.
Church of Christ
Thank you.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Just as a minor point of clarification, are you advocating rejecting everything in the Bible except the direct quotes from Jesus in the Gospels (and perhaps the Book of Revelation)?
e.r.m.
Church of Christ
I don't think that's where he was coming from. I think paarsurrey meant it as the overall picture that neither Jesus nor anybody else in the Bible said it. I could be wrong.
Mountain_Climber
Active Member
The first thing anyone should be able to agree upon is that it is the faith like that of Abraham which the grace of God is able to save us through. Do any of you disagree with that?
Romans 4:12 "And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised."
Romans 4:16 "Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all."
Galatians 3:7 "Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham."
Galatians 3:8-9 "And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham."
How then is it: Hebrews 12:2 "Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God."?
How then is Jesus the author of our faith?
katiemygirl
CHRISTIAN
You're barking up the wrong tree! I am not the one who said it. Nor do I believe it. You are correct. Jesus never said,
"we are saved from hell by grace alone through faith alone"
No one did!
I believe that was a quote from Spockrates post.
katiemygirl
CHRISTIAN
That is a good point atp. Many reject anything Jesus did not personally say. They do not acknowledge what His spokespersons, the apostles, said, particularly Paul.
katiemygirl
CHRISTIAN
I totally agree!
The term OUR is not found in the Greek. There is no personal pronoun. The text does not say “our faith.” It should read, "the author and finisher of "the" faith."
In the original text, faith is preceded by a definite article. It should read, “the faith."
What is "the faith?" The term is used throughout the NT and becomes the equivalent of “the gospel system” in many passages.
Luke records that a great company of priests became obedient to “the faith." (Acts 6:7)
Paul once referred to “the faith” that he preached (Gal. 1:23).
Christians are to contend for “the faith” (Jude 3).
Imho, Jesus is the originator or founder of the faith. He is the author. He is the finisher, meaning He ran the race of faith to its triumphant finish.
Another verse I find very interesting is Ephesians 2:8. Did you know that the Majority text has the definite article before the word faith? "By grace you are saved through the faith."
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Mountain_Climber
Active Member
Fascinating indeed!
You have explained that very well, saving me the struggle. I can see that what you have said is right.
It would appear that the Majority text having the definite article before the word faith would support that these references are specifically to the one faith as established in the congregation or church of God.
That is indeed necessary to know when we read.
Mountain_Climber
Active Member
katiemygirl, you may find posts 176 and 179 interesting in that same regard, here:
first-born of all creation | Page 9 | ReligiousForums.com
first-born of all creation | Page 9 | ReligiousForums.com
katiemygirl
CHRISTIAN
I read your posts. Well said! Thank you.
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