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Can Shiva cheat on Shakti?

DeviChaaya

DeviChaaya

Jai Ambe Gauri
Premium Member
I've been having a conversation about this with someone who sought my advice. It follows the story of the hermits and their wives; the hermits believe that they can attain moksha through empty acts alone and ignore their wives in favour of these acts. Clearly, according to bhakti traditions this is impossible and so Shiva goes to their ashram. Their poor wives, on seeing Lord Shiva, recognise Him for who He is. Yadda yadda yadda.

The question posed; is this not cheating upon Parvati by dallying in the minds of these women?

My response; of course not. How can Shiva 'cheat' upon Shakti? The two are inseparable as evidenced by the union of Aardhanariswara. As a Shakta I worship the Mother as supreme but I also worship Shiva. I do not believe Shiva can cheat upon Shakti because Shiva is Shakti just as Shakti is Shiva.

What are your thoughts?
 
S

spiritualhitchhiker

neti, neti, neti
No, that's why it is a false myth.

How can we establish it as a real myth?

We have to use our common sense and discrimination to separate the untrue from true, like how Hamsa separates milk from water. I think there are few false myths just to test our abilities in recognizing the true nature.
 
Aupmanyav

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Shiva went to a hermitage and met the women there, and people jump to the conclusion that Shiva cheated on Shakti. That is very funny. Shiva did cheat Parvati once when he was enticed by Mohini (Lord Vishnu). He should not have done that. But that is leela. Kartikeya was the result of this enticement. But I am sure one can find other stories for birth of Kartikeya. :)
 
Chakra

Chakra

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Aupmanyav said:
Well, perhaps Ayappan in the South, but definitely Shiva in the North.
Click to expand...
I don't think you understood what I meant. The son that was born from the so called union of Shiva and Vishnu was Appayyan, nor Murugan.
 
Aupmanyav

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
In North India, there was really no union. It was just that Shiva was excited and spread semen all over the earth, which creates diamond and gold mines. Since Indra and his army of Gods wanted someone to lead them, Agni collected some of Shiva's semen or spark's from Shiva's third eye, gave it to Ganga (or put it in Saravanan lake), who too found it very hot, gave it to Parvati, thereby, engendering Kartikeya. Of course, there are scores of stories. Can't say which one is the truth (or perhaps they are all true - one never knows the ways of Gods). :D
Mohini - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Kalibhakta

Kalibhakta

Jai Maha Kali Ma!
Honestly how does that work?

How can Lord Shiva cheat on his Wife, Mother Shakti?

All men are the Lord, all women are the Mother.
 
Aupmanyav

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
spiritualhitchhiker said:
It is because Parvati cursed the Devas and their wives to not have children, as Devas came in between Shiva and Parvati and didn't allow her to get a child from Shiva. Kartikeya arose out of this interruption between Shiva and Parvati.
Click to expand...
Now that is one more story. Always welcome. Please tell us in some detail. Why would not Devas like a union between Shiva and Parvati? I do not worry too much about it. I go by Sri Ramananda Sagar's dictum, "Hari Ananta, Hari Katha Ananta" (The Lord is infinite, and so are the stories of the Lord). :)
 
DeviChaaya

DeviChaaya

Jai Ambe Gauri
Premium Member
They can still create mind born children. It is simply that they can no longer procreate with one another.

Kalibhakta said:
Honestly how does that work?

How can Lord Shiva cheat on his Wife, Mother Shakti?

All men are the Lord, all women are the Mother.
Click to expand...

This is basically where I was coming from, KB. How can one cheat upon oneself?

And @spiritualhitchhiker , the story is an allegory for householder life. If you ignore your spouse they will inevitably turn to someone else for the attention they crave. In this case they are so highly spiritually minded that they turn to Lord Shiva to fulfill their craving for love and affection. And because Shiva is 'easily pleased', He gladly gives them what they desire so fervently; union with Him. In this story the many wives are Shakti split and multiplied and calling out for Shiva.
 
ShivaFan

ShivaFan

Satyameva Jayate
Premium Member
I am not aware of Shiva ever cheating Mother Goddess. Remember, while Devi, with many forms, is our Mother, for Shiva then Devi is also sometimes (all times actually but "time" is more than what we understand) Mother but also Partner. He even begs food from Devi. So why? Because we see many forms of Devi. Some are manifestations, some emanations (note: only Vishnu has incarnations, imho, not Devi) but if Shiva has a special relation with one that does not mean he "cheated" on the other...

... every single one had Devi in that form, including any Angel then She had Devi in that form, Gandarva, et all. He never cheated.
 
ShivaFan

ShivaFan

Satyameva Jayate
Premium Member
No, it doesn't make sense to those who do not understand our relationship to Devi as Mother, and Shiva's relationship to Devi as both Partner and Mother. But it makes perfect sense to Saivas and Shaktas who know what I am saying. Every single relationship of Shiva with different forms of Devi is never cheating on one form over another. They are all Devi.

"Sense" is larger than you imagine.
 
DeviChaaya

DeviChaaya

Jai Ambe Gauri
Premium Member
I give up. You're unwilling to look at this from the perspectives of other devotees. It is like speaking to a brick wall. Not a word we say is having any impact.
 
Chakra

Chakra

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
@Aupmanyav, I still don't think you understand what I'm saying. You said this...

Aupmanyav said:
Shiva went to a hermitage and met the women there, and people jump to the conclusion that Shiva cheated on Shakti. That is very funny. Shiva did cheat Parvati once when he was enticed by Mohini (Lord Vishnu). He should not have done that. But that is leela. Kartikeya was the result of this enticement. But I am sure one can find other stories for birth of Kartikeya. :)
Click to expand...

So what you are saying is that the union between Shiva and Vishnu is what caused the birth of Kartikeya. Now to you, it's just one of many stories, but this is not what happened. This is the description of the birth of Appayya, not Murugan. There is absolutely NO stories regarding Murugan's birth that have Mohini.


Aupmanyav said:
In North India, there was really no union. It was just that Shiva was excited and spread semen all over the earth, which creates diamond and gold mines. Since Indra and his army of Gods wanted someone to lead them, Agni collected some of Shiva's semen or spark's from Shiva's third eye, gave it to Ganga (or put it in Saravanan lake), who too found it very hot, gave it to Parvati, thereby, engendering Kartikeya. Of course, there are scores of stories. Can't say which one is the truth (or perhaps they are all true - one never knows the ways of Gods). :D
Mohini - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...

No need to look for which one is the truth, but one can't lump every single bogus story and claim they are all authoritative and use "Hari Ananta. Hari Katha Ananta" to justify that. Of course, I understand your intention, which is simply to tell readers about the other stories about the birth of the Gods. Vishnu's interactions with other Gods is already very misinterpreted so I won't go there.

So to summarize everything,

1) Appayyan was the result of the union between Vishnu and Shiva (that's what our texts say at least). There really aren't more stories about him.
2) Murugan has several stories regarding his birth. The Mahabharata story differs from the Ramayana story.
 
ShivaFan

ShivaFan

Satyameva Jayate
Premium Member
Human women are not forms of Devi, same as Human men are not forms of Shiva. It doesn't make sense because your grammar is bad.
Click to expand...

But you are wrong. There are human women who are Devi. A young human girl came to Trailinga Swami of Varanasi (Kashi) and this saint immediately saw her as Kali. And she was, both Kali and a young human girl.

In regards to grammar, you do not understand the grammar of Hinduism. That grammar, the message within it, is larger than your limited English grammar which changes decade to decade and is impermanent. But what Trailinga speaks of and understood is not impermanent. As far as English grammar, ... "are not forms of Devi, same as Human men are not" ... your syntax is incorrect, in that case "Human" would not use a capital "H" in the sentence. Also, "same as" is incorrect grammar, there cannot be an aspect of "same" (as) in this context because nothing is exact in that context, the correct grammar would be "just as" or if the sentence were constructed better, "like".

You have to understand many forms of grammar, many colors, a broader vision, to understand Hinduism.
 
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Aupmanyav

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
axlyz said:
1) Appayyan was the result of the union between Vishnu and Shiva (that's what our texts say at least). There really aren't more stories about him.
Click to expand...
Just a small note about spelling. It is Ayyappan. I realize that non-Indians or even North-Indians will make mistakes about South-Indian names. Lord Ayyappan. Only Vinayaka will get it right but he is angry. I miss him. :sad:

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spiritualhitchhiker said:
Human women are not forms of Devi, same as Human men are not forms of Shiva. It doesn't make sense because your grammar is bad.
Click to expand...
Depends on one's belief. For a Shakta, all women are Devis, and for a Shaiva Siddhantist, every one is Shiva only.
 
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DeviChaaya

DeviChaaya

Jai Ambe Gauri
Premium Member
spiritualhitchhiker said:
So you accept every myth as truth? Can you at least tell me in which scripture does this myth occur?
Click to expand...

You must use your own discrimination. Of course I do not accept every myth, nor do I take the puranas for actual events that happened on this planet. But I do not believe it is possible for Shiva to cheat upon Shakti and ask you again, how can one cheat upon oneself? Shiva and Shakti are one - the mind is nothing without the body and the body is useless without the mind. Then again, as a shakta, I believe that it is She who takes form to marry every god so then it can asked, from the perspective you seem to have, that Shakti is cheating upon Shiva!
 
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