Shedding blood in the name of God.

Jensa said:

I think a better question would be "which ones don't?"

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Surely you Taoists must have shed blood at some time ?............c'mon, give!!:biglaugh:

You are quite right, of course.

Sadly, Jeffrey, there have been many examples within Buddhist history that include bouts of violence, persecution, rape, and child abuse.




Violence perpetrated by Buddhists include violence in Sri Lanka, destroying churches in Cambodia, Christian persecution in Laos, and Mosque killings in Thailand.




There have also been numerous allegations of sexual abuse made against Buddhist monks of women and children.




We also cannot forget the recent terrorist attacks by the group Aum Shinrikyo in Tokyo.




I think it's easy to target Christianity here in the West because it's the major religious tradition in our culture, but if we were mostly centered in the Far East, we would very much hear of the crimes of those professing to be Buddhist.




*sigh*




Peace,
Mystic

Very insightful. It is my contention, that even though this bloodshed was in God's name, God had nothing to do with it. Just because it was written as so, does not make it so. Man has a thing about killing, then stating God told me to.

jeffrey said:

Very insightful. It is my contention, that even though this bloodshed was in God's name, God had nothing to do with it. Just because it was written as so, does not make it so. Man has a thing about killing, then stating God told me to.

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Yes, our species is very good at rationalizing our destruction.

jeffrey said:

Moses, commanded by God, in Numbers 7-18, wiped out an entire city, killed the male children, the women who were not virgins were also killed. The virgins were spared to be raped when they so desired... I'll ask again. If our soldiers did this, what would be thought of them?

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I don't think the Bible actually states this but I do agree, I don't think they took them home and played Yahtzee.

Killing in the name of!!!




*Starts moshing*

Now you do what they told you!

*Joins in moshing*

Adstar said:

True followers of Jesus have never engaged in mortal combat on earth since Jesus told us to love our enemies. Of course there have been many false christians and false christian organizations who have rebelled against the Words of Jesus and have taken part in combat. But that does not make Christianity a bloody religion. That just makes false Christianity a bloody religion. False christianity is Not Christianity and therefore one cannot use the action of false christians to attack Christianity.

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Albigensian_Crusade

That was instigated by the Papacy of the only Church of modern Christianity that existed at the time.

Other crusades were for land and riches. Tha Albigensian crusade's sole purpose was the destruction of the religion of the Good Men.

jeffrey said:

Show me were he said that. I believed he replied to someone that asked him that, turn the other cheek. Now, your saying God changed his mind? That in the OT it was ok to murder whole towns in the name of revenge? Look at what you're saying. Christ also said he was not there to change the laws.

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You're right...Christ did say to turn the other cheek...I messed up there and I apologize to you.Despite my mistake...If you read the OT of the Bible...God mandated that death was the punishment for certain sin...yes, cities were destroyed under the instruction of God. Obviously...God did mandate that certain laws change...through Christ...a NEW covenant was established. I'll happily quote scripture if you need to SEE where God set punishment as death.I understand that God has always acted in a way...that mankind could benefit...The Christ that I worship of the NT and God Almighty of the OT are the very same...you're dealing with two separate covenants under God.

So, you're saying God has changed his mind? That it was ok to kill children, taking joyin smashing their bodies against rocks, killing women, unless they were still virgins, in which case it was ok to take them and rape them at your own convenience?

jeffrey said:

So, you're saying God has changed his mind? That it was ok to kill children, taking joy in smashing their bodies against rocks, killing women, unless they were still virgins, in which case it was ok to take them and rape them at your own convenience?

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I meant what I stated. I'm not an author of the bible.

I'm just stating that God DID set the death as the punishment for certain sins...that's ALL I'm saying.

You don't have to accept what I've stated...but it's there...in the OT of the Bible.

I believe that Christ and the God of Abraham are one...so obviously...with the covenant established under Christ...many things DID change.

Covenants. The Jews are not under the "new" covenant. So, if you saw film of the Israeli army taking Arab babies and smashing them against rocks, doing this with glee, what would you think? If they went into a palestine village, killed everyone except the virgins, which they took hostage and raped, what would you think?

I'll state this again. Man makes excuses for killing. NEVER will I believe that God has ever condoned these actions.

jeffrey said:

I'll state this again. Man makes excuses for killing. NEVER will I believe that God has ever condoned these actions.

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To each his/her own.

dawny0826 said:

To each his/her own.

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You never answered the post before that.

No one is interested in post # 40?

Maggie

Whether people who did these things were false Christians or not is a laughable argument. They professed to be Christian. It is nice when you can try to wiggle out of the fact that terrible things have been done in the name of Christianity, but trying to say they were false Christians doesn't wash. They were Christians and they did these terrible things. Period.

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Sorry, no they where not. Christians are followers of the teachings of the Messiah Jesus. Therefore Christians never take part in mortal combat, Christians turn their cheeks and love their enemies. The point i am making is that there are very few true Christians on earth.

Additionally, I assure you that there were many men who fought in both the First and Second World Wars who were followers of Jesus and fought in mortal combat. Oh yeah, also the Korean and Vietnam wars as well. So to say that no follower of Jesus has fought in mortal combat just isn't so. Just ask the surviving relatives of those who died in those wars and I think they would agree with me on that.

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No sorry they where not Christians at all. They where believers in another jesus. A cut down version with lies added. If they where true Christians they would have read the following scripture are refused to engage in combat.


Matthew 5:38-39
38 "You have heard that it was said, "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. 39But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.


Matthew 5: 43-48
43 "You have heard that it was said, "You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' 44But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, 45that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so? 48Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.


Romans 12:17-21
17Repay no one evil for evil. Have regard for good things in the sight of all men. 18If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men. 19Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written, "Vengeance is Mine, I will repay," says the Lord. 20Therefore "If your enemy is hungry, feed him; If he is thirsty, give him a drink; For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head." 21Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.


Matthew 5:9
Blessed are the peacemakers, For they shall be called sons of God.


II Corinthians 10:3,4
"For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh. For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds."


Ephesians 6:12
"For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places."


Ephesians 6:4
"And you, fathers, do not provoke your children to wrath, but bring them up in the training and admonition of the Lord."


Zechariah 4:6
"Not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit, says the Lord of Hosts."


1 John 5:19
"The whole world lieth in the evil one."

Revelation 13:10
He who leads into captivity shall go into captivity; he who kills with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

Tell me hounestly can a person call themselves a follower of Jesus and still be concidered a Christian by taking part in war after reading the above Christian scripture?

Millions have been killed by false Christians but true christians have never taken up arms.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

The Truth said:

This is what the jewish said to their prophet Moses when he commanded them to enter to the holy land which God gave to them. So, they disobied God out of fear of fighting.

God can make anyone dead anytime he please but this life is a test for us, human beings, whether we believe in him or disbelieve.

[20] Remember Musa said to his people: "O my People! call in remembrance the favour of Allah unto you, when He produced prophets among you, made you kings, and gave you what He had not given to any other among the peoples.


[21] "O my people! enter the holy land which Allah hath assigned unto you, and turn not back Ignominiously, for then will ye be overthrown, to your own ruin."


[22] They said: "O Musa! in this land are a people of exceeding strength: never shall we enter it until they leave it: if (once) they leave, then shall we enter."

[23] (But) among (their) God-fearing men were two on whom Allah had bestowed His grace: they said: "Assault them at the (proper) Gate: when once ye are in, victory will be yours; But on Allah put your trust if ye have faith."


[24] They said: "O Musa! while they remain there, never shall we be able to enter, to the end of time. Go thou, and thy Lord, and fight ye two, while we sit here (and watch)."


[25] He said: "O my Lord! I have power only over myself and my brother: so separate us from this rebellious people!"

[26] Allah said: "Therefore will the land be out of their reach for forty years: in distraction will they wander through the land: but sorrow thou not over these rebellious people. (Quran Surah 5)


Actually, i'm surprised in how many christians deny the OT while they hold it under thier arm when they preach.

How can a christian who believe in the whole bible as the word of God say no no, oh, that was the OT God not the NT one !!!

If they are one person (the father and the son), is that mean Jesus was part of that thing (because the trinity say Jesus is part of God, so he was there !!!)

I have been confused about this since a while :bonk:

Any thoughts?

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I am a Christian and i do not deny the story of Moses and what happened when they first came to the promised land. God gave them a direct order to go in and invade the land to posses it and they refused a direct order from God. So they where doomed to wander the desert for 40 years until the generation that had refused to enter the promised and had died. It was their Children 40 years later that went in and took over the land.

If you ever read the Torah you will notice that they where only successful in combat when they followed the order of God to take part in combat. and also they where only successful when they took part in combat in the way that God had commanded them to. Whenever they took it upon themselves to start a war on their own initiative their efforts ended in disaster.

Jesus is the Word of God He is with God and He is God. And he told us not to kill others or take part in war. That order has not been changed. It was the last order given on the matter by God to us and we will obey it. When Jesus returns He will destroy our enemies and take vengeance for all the persecution we have suffered. God has used war and will use war again in the future. But His Orders to us are His orders to us and that is not to take part in war and to give the message of Gods forgiveness to sinners through belief in The Messiah Jesus.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Whether one wants to argue who is and is not a "true Christian" is moot. People can do that back and forth all day long. Since one can interpret different passages of the bible in so many different ways, using it doesn't help matters. The biggest clue as to how an organized formed religion is represented as a whole is by the things carried out in its' name. One hand you have charities and the Christian Children's Fund and so on in the present. You also though, have the brutalizations of the past. One must look at all to see any growth of the religion. Christianity did have a very bloody youth...and while still young in the grand scheme of things, they are getting better.

One cannot argue the things that the main Christian and Catholic churches have done all simply due to bible interpretation and "what they thought was right according to the bible". All these people read, translated, and so believed in literal interpretations of the bible that they were willing to go to extremes just to prove their faith. Just because they interpreted what they did and others interpret differently doens't make them any less Christian. It's all the same bible it's based off of.

Just look at the Malleus Malificarum. That was written by two priests that were instructed to do so by Pope Innocent IIX. This was charged by the church to be necessary in its' quest for godly actions and people.

http://www.malleusmaleficarum.org/

I'm not saying this is all on Christianity. As has been mentioned, many religions are guilty of bloodshed in the name of their deity. I just don't like that some think that there are two different Christianities. The "true" one and the "false" one. It really isn't upon anyone to decide who is and is not a "true" Chrsitian just because they don't see their own religion a certain way. You take the good with the bad and learn to accept both. It should show a growth of religion. If so many religions are guilty of it then it is not hard to believe that Christianity is guilty as well. It is no better than others. However, how the religion is being represented today in comparison to the past should show growth and that is something at least, that one could be proud of.

Halcyon said:

Albigensian_Crusade

That was instigated by the Papacy of the only Church of modern Christianity that existed at the time.

Other crusades were for land and riches. Tha Albigensian crusade's sole purpose was the destruction of the religion of the Good Men.

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Correction, that was the official religion of state at the time. We are in this world but we are not play the harlot with the powers of this world. They where descendants of the ones who abandoned the true faith and got into bed with Constantine and made spiritual whores of themselves with the kings of this world. There has always been true Christians in this world in spite of the churches not because of the churches. Before those times Christians died in the coliseums like true Christians after that the only thing that changed change was that true Christians where burnt as heretics at the stake by false christians of the official religion of state.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days