Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
Just leave it to the metaphysicians, mystics, occultists, theologians, theosophists, spiritualists, parapsychologists, CIA, etc.....
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The Bible and aliens
- Thread starter robocop (actually)
- Start date
It's not if God is aliens, it's if aliens are not Gods!
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
I'm not sure I understand you... There is a celestial hierarchy from demons through to the highest deity God absolute. That some humans use a different name.for celestial entities is to be expected based on their knowledge or lack thereof. The concept of alien is a broad term which just means....not a local, For example, atheists who have a form of contact with ET may consider them aliens...but theists who have the same form of contact with the same ET may consider them angels. Others again may consider them demons....
I'm not sure you'll ever understand me.
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
Ever is a long time....
Well ben d, ever is infinity.
I might not have read more than the first two letters of the Mahabarata, but I know a lot about Infinity/God proper from my two degrees in math. I hope that this post will finally help you because it is my best crack at your belief and I will be as honest as I possibly can.
We can do all of math with one axiom:
That when you have a sequence of sums or a sum you can add 1 to one number and subtract 1 from another and it is the same number. This allows for the associatiave and communitive properties.
Then we simply define each number as 1 plus the last number we defined.
1+1=2.
1+2=3.
1+3=4.
Like this we can define each number. Then we can add and subtract 1 to find that 2+1=3 and 2+2=4. If we have 2+2+2=6, 1+3+2=2+1+3=3+1+2=6. 1+1+1=2+1=1+2 from the definitions also. We can make extensions to accomodate all numbers and operations.
This works for any number, no matter how big. In fact however big a number is there is always a bigger number. This allows for the complexity of space; it is as we say immense; as big as we want to imagine.
All of mathematics can be extensions of this definition and this axiom!
Now what about infinity (and superinfinity)? If you wanted to define infinity in our way, you would have to use 1+infinity=infinity, a circular reference. That doesn’t mean infinity doesn’t exist; it just exists independently. You can have infiinity in time, space, size, power, knowledge, and intimacy but you have to remember that there’s no way of defining them. They just exist or don’t and that’s all we know!
I might not have read more than the first two letters of the Mahabarata, but I know a lot about Infinity/God proper from my two degrees in math. I hope that this post will finally help you because it is my best crack at your belief and I will be as honest as I possibly can.
We can do all of math with one axiom:
That when you have a sequence of sums or a sum you can add 1 to one number and subtract 1 from another and it is the same number. This allows for the associatiave and communitive properties.
Then we simply define each number as 1 plus the last number we defined.
1+1=2.
1+2=3.
1+3=4.
Like this we can define each number. Then we can add and subtract 1 to find that 2+1=3 and 2+2=4. If we have 2+2+2=6, 1+3+2=2+1+3=3+1+2=6. 1+1+1=2+1=1+2 from the definitions also. We can make extensions to accomodate all numbers and operations.
This works for any number, no matter how big. In fact however big a number is there is always a bigger number. This allows for the complexity of space; it is as we say immense; as big as we want to imagine.
All of mathematics can be extensions of this definition and this axiom!
Now what about infinity (and superinfinity)? If you wanted to define infinity in our way, you would have to use 1+infinity=infinity, a circular reference. That doesn’t mean infinity doesn’t exist; it just exists independently. You can have infiinity in time, space, size, power, knowledge, and intimacy but you have to remember that there’s no way of defining them. They just exist or don’t and that’s all we know!
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Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
There's a difference between belief about something as truth and knowing it to be absolutely...
Mathematics is symbolism, just like language, they are conceptualizations to represent reality, but are not actually that reality for which they stand... In my religious practice, one does not use the thinking mind to interpret reality mathematically or verbally indirectly, or dualistically if you like, but directly where the intellectual separation between disciple and absolute reality dissolves, and non-duality is present directly....no mathematical interpretation involved...
Now please understand that my use of verbal language here to explain this is as an expedient only, for in fact what is being said to you is that words or maths will never ever bring you true understanding of the reality for which these are meant to represent.... You must dispense with concepts that are normally used to interpret reality in the world, and face reality without interpretation to know it directly...
Sorry but you have to use numbers, signs, gestures or words to describe anything.
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
That's what I explained....you want to describe what you think is truth, I merely become one with it....
Dear ben d,
I tried my hardest to help you and I give up. Will you please try your hardest to help me, and I promise to be as open-minded and understanding as I can? Just explain your philosophy and I'll see what I can do.
I tried my hardest to help you and I give up. Will you please try your hardest to help me, and I promise to be as open-minded and understanding as I can? Just explain your philosophy and I'll see what I can do.
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
Sorry robocop....but if you do not understand what I am saying...it is because the prerequisite understanding needed may not be present to facilitate it. Advaita/non-duality religious practice is not one that employs the thinking mind,,,the contrary....the practice is about the cessation of thought...for only then will reality be present directly rather than indirectly through conceptual understanding. Mind you...I am using conceptual language to explain this to you, but only as an expedient to say that conceptual understanding will never lead to true understanding of the transcendent, but non-conceptual understanding is the way.
The bible will only reveal its mysteries to those whom have a well developed intuitive faculty of mind that responds to the transcendent spheres of cosmic being, rather than the normal mind that deals in mathematics and language... If the intuitive faculty is not yet sufficiently developed to know this...never mind...a;; paths eventually lead to true understanding...
Oh so I don't know mysteries of the Bible? You agreed when I called out dark matter and the firmament and said it was insightful. You are the one who wouldn't lift a finger of support for fighting ISIS in Iraq even with peaceful means. Are you aware (and if you are one why wouldn't you be) that we live in more terrorism than ever before?
I think whiterain is right. Could it be that you misrepresented God? Leave this cold!
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Then again, shuttlecraft wanted to starve Africans, so don't feel too bad.
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
robocop...you read into things stuff that is not there....I didn't say you were incapable of intuitive insights...and I did not indicate any context wrt the geopolitical war in the middle east and terrorism...Oh so I don't know mysteries of the Bible? You agreed when I called out dark matter and the firmament and said it was insightful. You are the one who wouldn't lift a finger of support for fighting ISIS in Iraq even with peaceful means. Are you aware (and if you are one why wouldn't you be) that we live in more terrorism than ever before?
I think whiterain is right. Could it be that you misrepresented God? Leave this cold!
As to your suggestion that I misrepresent God...let God be the judge...
About the only thing you did not comment on was my explanation about non-conceptual understanding and conceptual understanding..
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
I have no idea what you are referring to....and what is the context?
An interesting thing about the Book of Mormon. In the first ten verses it describes "stars in the firmament." The Bible teaches that the firmament is between the ocean and clouds. Obviously they could tell the stars weren't in the firmament because clouds would block them. However, perhaps it means that Lehi saw stars with those stars own firmaments, or in other words alien life! Could Joseph Smith have made that up? Yes! But it shows how cool he was.
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
I have read that the tribe of Nephi were actually the hybrid offspring from the sons of gods (benelohim) and earthly women know in the bible as the Nephilim. Also there that the so called angels who visited Joesph Smith were the fallen benelohim. More about the fallen angles in the Book of Enoch...
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
In both the Bible and the Book of Mormon, the word "firmament" is used as a very general term meaning "sky." There is nothing in the Book of Mormon that supports alien life on stars. Sorry to disappoint.
I am confused because Genesis 1:7 seems to contradict the current and 1828 webster's definitions of firmament as well as the Bible Dictionary. I also have found what I think are a whole lot of E.T. references in the Book of Mormon.
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Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Seriously? I mean what, exactly, are you thinking when you say an "E.T. reference"?