Living as a gay Hindu.

Fireside_Hindu · May 3, 2015

SomeRandom said:
There are even some who have an unusually high amount of testosterone.

I had to be treated for such a condition back in my late teens (I started hormone therapy and now my testosterone levels are within normal range.) I can't speak for other women who have the condition, but I can tell you it didn't seem to effect my sexual orientation. (Although I absolutely agree with you that sexuality is fluid even within one lifetime.) What it did do to me was make me very aggressive and miserable, give me bad acne and contributed to me being overweight. All things which subsided after treatment. I think a hormone's effects on the body as well as it's interaction with other hormones is a very complicated thing, because some women with too much testosterone become olympic level athletes and others end up like I did.

StarryNightshade · May 3, 2015

ratikala said:
namaskaram Malola ji

in my tradition I think it would be veiwed as something which may be permissable between Lay Hindus , but certainly not accepteble amongst Initiates , .....the general recomendation (despite the fact that many are unable to follow this) ...is that even married couples are not together to satisfy the sences in any way , but that they are together for the sole purpose of rearing a fammily and supporting each other through spiritual life , ...even the Idea of attraction whether it is to the opposite gender or to ones own is not realy how a true devotee should be thinking , ...the Ideal is that ones attraction should be for God , ....but this is a high Ideal that not all are capable of ataining , as attraction is a very natural emotion .

I will admit my ignorance of Gaudiya (I don't know much about it), but in south India, where Sri Vaishnavism is one of the predominant schools of Dharma, initiation/upanayana is considered the beginning of one's studies. As well as the beginning of the stages of life. Once one is no longer a Brahmachari, they go into the Grihastha/householder stage. The only difference is that I'll be with a man and not a woman.

And yes, God is the ultimate attraction ,but it would be nice to have someone to share this lifetime with.

the way I personaly would look at it is that we are all at different stages in attaining love of God , so it is natural that there should be a period (prehaps of many lifetimes) when one is torn between needing to follow the urge for human relationships , and the equaly natural urge to search for ones eternal relationship with the supreme , ...

if there is confusion then this is only due to the limited understanding of the ones observing the question .

I firmly believe one can have have both human relationships and a relation with the Divine. After all, isn't that what the 4 Ashrama/stages are for?

personaly I would rather see you in a commited and honest relationship where both parties vow to support and care for one another in the same way a man and woman would , if I weigh it up I would rather see two men commit in the same way after all the vows them selves are not just for the creation of a family but also for spiritual support and physical protction of each other as a couple , ....

That's what I want as well.

To commit to a single person spiritually and emotional for (hopefully) the rest of this lifetime.

StarryNightshade · May 3, 2015

Yogi1054 said:
I think you will find in any faith there are those who will not tolerate homosexuality and those who think homosexaulity is ok as long as you remain celibate. Many of the Goddess and God's themselves reflect our struggles as humans

GALVA-108: Gay & Lesbian Vaishnava Association Is a good link to follow showing the many forms that are taken by the divine, male, female male and female.

That's always confused me about some religious people. If God created people just the way they are, why would S/He want them to be lonely and miserable if they don't want to be celibate?

I've heard of GALVA and even am friends with it's founder on Facebook. It's a good organization.

StarryNightshade · May 3, 2015

Shantanu said:
First, Hinduism sees man and woman as two halves of a single human entity. That is the manner in which the species is propagated. This makes heterosexuality to be the norm. So many people think that homosexuality is wrong. This view is born out of ignorance for the following reason (pardon me for being blunt in my language). The reason that some men are have homosexual tendencies is that their genes and hormones have made them psychologically effeminate, although this biological facet has not been translated fully into them developing the full secondary sexual characteristics of the female form such as having vagina instead of a penis and having enlarged breasts: they consequently long to have sex with another man and want such romantic attachments. Such people may be described as 'semi-man' biologically. Like wise, there are some women whose genes and hormones have combined to make them psychologically masculine although it has not translated itself fully to the extent that they are endowed with a penis instead of a vagina or have lost their breasts fully. They two are to be described as 'semi-woman' who have longings for sexual relations with women instead of a man. Many such people in both these categories are bisexual in that they can have sexual relations with either a man or a woman.

This description of human reproductive features is a fact, and so a reality that Hinduism cannot override with customs that make it wrong for homosexuality to be unacceptable in society. They are entitled to form their desired unions including through marriage between people who may have the same sexual organs.

Shantanu said:
I asked God whether he agreed with me but he did not. I do not think He wants gays to bother worshipping Him. This means that Hinduism does not accept homosexuality and other deviant sexualities. God did not make a perfect world. He wants us to make it perfect through dharma.

You confuse me so much. In one post you give an inaccurate, but still relatively non-condemning, description of homosexuality (but, like @SomeRandom said, that's more accurate to transgenderism than anything; and even then it would still be inaccurate). Yet, in your next post, you claim that God told you directly that he doesn't want gay people to worship him? Is he really that petty or is it you merely projecting?

Chakra · May 3, 2015

I think that the common view of many Shri Vaishnavas that I have met is that homosexuality is natural and that you can live/marry with another male. Kama is discouraged nonetheless, whether it be a heterosexual or a homosexual relationship. Sex with a man and sex with a woman is still sex.

EDIT: Also, note the word "discouraged". Not criminalized or sinful.

StarryNightshade · May 3, 2015

axlyz said:
I think that the common view of many Shri Vaishnavas that I have met is that homosexuality is natural and that you can live/marry with another male. Kama is discouraged nonetheless, whether it be a heterosexual or a homosexual relationship. Sex with a man and sex with a woman is still sex.

What I've been taught is that sex can either be kama or done in love. If you do it strictly for sexual gratification, then it is kama. If you do it for spiritual union between two souls, then it is done in love.

Shantanu · May 3, 2015

StarryNightshade said:
You confuse me so much. In one post you give an inaccurate, but still relatively non-condemning, description of homosexuality (but, like @SomeRandom said, that's more accurate to transgenderism than anything; and even then it would still be inaccurate). Yet, in your next post, you claim that God told you directly that he doesn't want gay people to worship him? Is he really that petty or is it you merely projecting?

I do not worship God because He has made a funny old world in which humans have to make up their own laws and norms of behaviour. I do not share His views on this matter as you will note from my first post. But I had to know what He makes of it. So I asked me in my usual way of taking the question to him. This was the reply I got. It seems to me from that answer that He wants people to have self control if they wish to worship him or come close to Him. He clearly sees that for you to have sex with another man disgusts Him.

StarryNightshade · May 3, 2015

Shantanu said:
I do not worship God because He has made a funny old world in which humans have to make up their own laws and norms of behaviour. I do not share His views on this matter as you will note from my first post. But I had to know what He makes of it. So I asked me in my usual way of taking the question to him. This was the reply I got. It seems to me from that answer that He wants people to have self control if they wish to worship him or come close to Him. He clearly sees that for you to have sex with another man disgusts Him.

If you say so, all mighty prophet.

Like I've said, I'm not some sex crazed maniac doing everything on two legs. However, I do plan on settling down with a man for this lifetime. Which, yes, means some sex. I somehow doubt God is that obsessed with that people do with their genitalia. Especially when there are much worse things people do in the world.

SomeRandom · May 3, 2015

Fireside_Hindu said:
I had to be treated for such a condition back in my late teens (I started hormone therapy and now my testosterone levels are within normal range.) I can't speak for other women who have the condition, but I can tell you it didn't seem to effect my sexual orientation. (Although I absolutely agree with you that sexuality is fluid even within one lifetime.) What it did do to me was make me very aggressive and miserable, give me bad acne and contributed to me being overweight. All things which subsided after treatment. I think a hormone's effects on the body as well as it's interaction with other hormones is a very complicated thing, because some women with too much testosterone become olympic level athletes and others end up like I did.

Well yeah, hormones don't affect sexual orientation as far as I know. But it is rather complicated.

Chakra · May 3, 2015

I don't know what spiritual union between two souls is, but just listen to what your guru says. Sex is rarely talked about by Shri Vaishnava acharyas, and it's not like sex is some major sin. If it was like meat-eating or something serious like that then I would protest.

SomeRandom · May 3, 2015

Shantanu said:
I asked God whether he agreed with me but he did not. I do not think He wants gays to bother worshipping Him. This means that Hinduism does not accept homosexuality and other deviant sexualities. God did not make a perfect world. He wants us to make it perfect through dharma.

God communicates with you directly? Are you a prophet? A saint? An incarnation of the Godhead?

Anyone can claim such a thing, doesn't mean I have to accept it. Hinduism is fluid and complex. Claiming that Hinduism accepts or does not accept anything is stretching it, let alone claiming God told you He/She does not accept something.

There are even specific deities within Hinduism for the specific purpose of providing protection to the "Third Sex" as it were, never mind that many believe Mata Kali offers extra protection to those downtrodden in society, especially targeted people like gay people.

Chakra · May 3, 2015

I have absolutely no idea what some members are talking about.

Anyway, @SomeRandom , I haven't seen you post in the Hindu DIR for a while, so welcome back!

SomeRandom · May 3, 2015

axlyz said:
I have absolutely no idea what some members are talking about.

Anyway, @SomeRandom , I haven't seen you post in the Hindu DIR for a while, so welcome back!

Thanks!

Deidre · May 3, 2015

StarryNightshade said:
So, this is a topic that I've been wanting to discuss for quite a while. Primarily for 2 reasons:

1.) There seems to be a great misconception about homosexuality among Hindus (especially among Indians in general). While I have not seen anything negative said about LGBT from Hindus in this DIR, I have seen a handful of comments over the years which don't exactly paint gay people in the best light.

2.) The general confusion as to how, and why, a gay man would ever be religious.

When comes to the topic of my faith and my sexual orientation, most people express the following thoughts or concerns.

How can you be gay and Hindu?

Simple: I'm a man with romantic, emotional, and (yes) sexual attractions to men. I also happen to be a western adoptee of Hinduism. I follow my faith to the best of my abilities (although I still do slip up and am no where near perfect in practice) and my attraction to men is such an intrinsic part of my being. I briefly toyed with the idea of being with a woman, but I couldn't go with it. There is nothing sinful, horrible, or "evil" about my attraction to men. As I have said, it's such an ingrained part of my overall being and I don't think I could change it even if I wanted to. Which brings me to the next point:

What about your Brahmacharya?

Why is it that many people (Indian, western, or otherwise) think that being gay is only about physical intimacy? As a new initiate, I'm keeping to my stage as a Brahmacharya. I'm not having sex, I'm not in a relationship, and I'm dedicated to my religious studies. Even before I adopted Hinduism, I was living what could be considered a Brahmachari lifestyle. I only had physical intimacy with 2 people; one of whom was in the context of a 3.5 year relationship, while the other was with someone whom I thought a relationship would arise. As long as I could remember, the idea of sexual gradification for the sole purpose of doing so (such as one night stands) never appealed to me.

With that being said, while I'm currently living as a Brahmachari, and while I don't have sex outside of relationships (or possible relationships), I don't plan on staying celibate for the rest of my life. I do plan on finding a husband to settle down with later on down the road. At the ripe old age of 24, I eagerly await committing myself to a single person for, hopefully, the rest of my life. until then, I'll continue my dedication as a Brahmachari.

Scriptures say...

This one makes me a little sad. As diverse and non-centralized as Hinduism is, so many Hindus have tried to use scriptures as means of suppressing those considered undesirable. As far as I can tell, Śruti say little to nothing on sexual orientation. From what people have tried to extrapolate from them, it seems that revealed texts are, at best, neutral to homosexuality. Neither condemning or condoning.

Smriti, on the other hand, is what people primarily try to use to say that homosexuality is an abomination within Hinduism (at least in my experience). Particularly Smriti regarding conduct and ritual. While I'm not an anthropologist and can't comment on the dates and authenticity of some Smriti, I will say that if it is true that homosexuality is prohibited as per learned scripture, then it is my karma to bear and what I will ultimately answer to. However, as a personal rule, I will go by what has been revealed by the Divine any day.

Vedic marriage is not for you

Fair enough to this point. Marriage in Vedic times was, generally, very pro-family and between a man and woman. However, that's one of the joys of living in a secular country: having a civil marriage or secular arrangement.

I'm sorry if this was too drawn out or too long. It's just something that has been on my mind for a little while. With this past week not having been one of the better ones in my life, I just needed to get it off my chest. I understand that homosexuality is still a hot button issue, and may or may not ever be fully accepted by Indian society or Hindus at large, but that won't stop me from following my dharma and living out this life as I'm guided by the grace of God. We all have our lives to live and karmic debts to pay, and perhaps this just happens to be mine.

I wish I could give you 1000 likes.

If two people are fortunate to find true love, it's a beautiful thing, and to me it's our highest calling as humans. (I say this as someone afraid of love, but coming around lol)

Yogi1054 · May 3, 2015

StarryNightshade said:
That's always confused me about some religious people. If God created people just the way they are, why would S/He want them to be lonely and miserable if they don't want to be celibate?

I've heard of GALVA and even am friends with it's founder on Facebook. It's a good organization.

Exactly, as a white gay male Hindu I agree - Hindu appeals because when I turn to Mataji she accepts me for who I am. The term 'brahmacharya' has so many different meanings all depending on the contexts.

spiritualhitchhiker · May 3, 2015

StarryNightshade said:
What I've been taught is that sex can either be kama or done in love. If you do it strictly for sexual gratification, then it is kama. If you do it for spiritual union between two souls, then it is done in love.

Kama also means love. Kamadev is the one who makes people fall in love, remember?

Sorry if this question causes you pain, can you tell me, have you never found a woman sexually attractive? Do you automatically find good looking men sexually attractive?

Kalibhakta · May 4, 2015

Shantanu said:
I asked God whether he agreed with me but he did not. I do not think He wants gays to bother worshipping Him. This means that Hinduism does not accept homosexuality and other deviant sexualities. God did not make a perfect world. He wants us to make it perfect through dharma.

So are you denying Mother Bahuchara's Divinity? If God really frowned on homosexuality, why would there be a goddess for Third Gender Men?

Shantanu · May 4, 2015

Kalibhakta said:
So are you denying Mother Bahuchara's Divinity? If God really frowned on homosexuality, why would there be a goddess for Third Gender Men?

The source of gods is the guna-consciousness Trimurti, a Triad construction of Consciousness that generates thoughts and beliefs in individuals. God (Sri Krishna) created this consciousness. Sri Krishna accepts homage through Devi (Durga) as divine but since He hates homosexuals because they prevent human evolution from generating a flourishing humanity, Mother Bahuchara is not part of the divinity of Devi and has nothing to do with Sri Krishna.

Aupmanyav · May 4, 2015

Or Yellamma "Karuneyathoru Yellamma". I think it translates into "The kind Yellamma". Or Aravanan.

SomeRandom · May 4, 2015

Shantanu said:
The source of gods is the guna-consciousness Trimurti, a Triad construction of Consciousness that generates thoughts and beliefs in individuals. God (Sri Krishna) created this consciousness. Sri Krishna accepts homage through Devi (Durga) as divine but since He hates homosexuals because they prevent human evolution from generating a flourishing humanity, Mother Bahuchara is not part of the divinity of Devi and has nothing to do with Sri Krishna.

Homosexuality doesn't prevent evolution or even constrict the population. It's effects on the reproduction habits of humanity at large are at best negligible and at worst indifferent. In other words, there's so few of them (this at a constant percentage each and every generation) that humanity wouldn't even feel it if none of them ever procreated, (and some actually do, homosexuality doesn't equate to infertility or lack of parental instinct) because there's enough heterosexual/bisexual/pansexual people to keep us going strong for a million years and then some.

Not every organism has to or does procreate in nature. We know this for a fact due to observations made of Sexual and Natural Selection "Laws" prevalent in nature to begin with.
Also, there's a hypothesis which suggests that homosexuality or rather having a portion of the tribe which does not procreate at all might have been a highly beneficial survival strategy. Like having a supply of back up parents for the tribe to lean on if the parents had short lives, shall we say. Which was a high probability back when we were hunter gatherers. Hell there are tribes today which use that very strategy.

Why would God be so ignorant of basic natural and selection pressures in Evolution? Why would God be so short sighted when it comes to survivability of the species as it is understood in Evolution? Why would God want overpopulation and require every single human to procreate? Does God also hate infertile people? They're even worse than gay people, because they could be 100% heterosexual and still not procreate. At least gay people could use surrogates to push forward the species, if that concerns God oh so much!
Are you sure you didn't mishear God, or are you just projecting?

Living as a gay Hindu.

Jai Lakshmi Maa

Spiritually confused Jew

Spiritually confused Jew

Spiritually confused Jew

Well-Known Member

Spiritually confused Jew

Well-Known Member

Spiritually confused Jew

Still learning to be wise

Well-Known Member

Still learning to be wise

Well-Known Member

Still learning to be wise

Well-Known Member

Shakti

neti, neti, neti

Jai Maha Kali Ma!

Well-Known Member

Be your own guru

Still learning to be wise