Jesus is not the Savior

Muffled · Apr 30, 2015

Psyhoslice said "Well good on him, the thing is even if this man Jesus never came here, there would be nothing different, so called sinning will still be going on, and at the end of life we are accountable for our sins, so what did Jesus really die for, nothing is what I believe,"

To believe that I believe you must not believe Jesus when He says He will draw all men to Him.

1Ti 1:15 Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief:

John 12:27 ¶ Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour. But for this cause came I unto this hour.

I believe He died to save men from their sins.

Thief · Apr 30, 2015

Muffled said:
I believe I have no other Savior than Jesus.

I beleive I would counter that my inspiration is not in agreement with yours. That means one of us is not inspired by God.

Most people of faith claim....Jesus IS God.

He said of Himself...'brother and fellow servant'.

As Teacher, His parables hold therein, the saving grace I lean to.

Conceivia · May 1, 2015

Thief said:
Most people of faith claim....Jesus IS God.

He said of Himself...'brother and fellow servant'.

As Teacher, His parables hold therein, the saving grace I lean to.

Speaking of Jesus being God, I saw an interesting verse in another thread:

Starjade said:
Deuteronomy Chapter 18 verse 18:
I will raise them up a prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee; and I will put My words in his mouth, And he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

From among their brethren can mean any human being. It very definitely does mean a HUMAN. It does not mean God. So Jesus could only be that prophet, if he was entirely human.

Tony

psychoslice · May 1, 2015

Muffled said:
Psyhoslice said "Well good on him, the thing is even if this man Jesus never came here, there would be nothing different, so called sinning will still be going on, and at the end of life we are accountable for our sins, so what did Jesus really die for, nothing is what I believe,"

To believe that I believe you must not believe Jesus when He says He will draw all men to Him.

1Ti 1:15 Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief:

John 12:27 ¶ Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour. But for this cause came I unto this hour.

I believe He died to save men from their sins.

well said and so true.

Thief · May 1, 2015

Conceivia said:
Speaking of Jesus being God, I saw an interesting verse in another thread:

From among their brethren can mean any human being. It very definitely does mean a HUMAN. It does not mean God. So Jesus could only be that prophet, if he was entirely human.

Tony

and if He be only human.....His example is hope for all.
if He failed to enter heaven, because He was human.....then we have no hope at all.

Conceivia · May 1, 2015

atpollard said:
As someone recently pointed out ... 54% of the people say otherwise.
Perhaps you need to reexamine the evidence, because a LOT of people must see something that you don't.

Jesus tells us over and over again, that the majority of the people are wrong. Jesus also tells us that the people don't understand Jesus, that someone would come and explain it to them.

Tony

atpollard · May 1, 2015

Conceivia said:
Jesus tells us over and over again, that the majority of the people are wrong. Jesus also tells us that the people don't understand Jesus, that someone would come and explain it to them.

Tony

Oh, the irony. :LOL:

Starjade · May 2, 2015

Starjade says; Well hello there Conceivia. You are so very right. I am not a descendant of Abraham. So an argument began with the descendants of Abraham who were saying that I could not be the long awaited Deuteronomy Prophet. I pointed out that the "Living God" does not say anywhere in the Old Testament that the Prophet he would raise up would be a descendant of Abraham. That was a presumption on behalf of the descendants of Abraham.

Deuteronomy Chapter 18 verse 18: I will raise them up a prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee; and I will put My words in his mouth, And he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

I was first born in the Blackpool of Lancashire. I grew up in the midst of the descendants of Abraham who are of the brethren of all other descendants of Abraham living or dead. I also plan an Exodus of the descendants of Abraham only this Time it is out from the four corners of the globe. That’s a bit like Moses isn’t it? So the descendants of Abraham do not have anything really worth arguing about. It took them a while to grasp that point. Clearly you saw it right away.

Who are these Souls saying Jesus said this or that. The New Testament character Jesus did not speak to them. It was an obscure writer saying those words, a writer who was not a witness to such events that he describes. Next they will say they will go get Sherlock Holmes on the case. Whatever happened to a thing called reality eh? Must have got sucked into the twilight zone.

Conceivia · May 2, 2015

Starjade said:
Starjade says; Well hello there Conceivia. You are so very right. I am not a descendant of Abraham. So an argument began with the descendants of Abraham who were saying that I could not be the long awaited Deuteronomy Prophet. I pointed out that the "Living God" does not say anywhere in the Old Testament that the Prophet he would raise up would be a descendant of Abraham. That was a presumption on behalf of the descendants of Abraham.

Deuteronomy Chapter 18 verse 18: I will raise them up a prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee; and I will put My words in his mouth, And he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

I was first born in the Blackpool of Lancashire. I grew up in the midst of the descendants of Abraham who are of the brethren of all other descendants of Abraham living or dead. I also plan an Exodus of the descendants of Abraham only this Time it is out from the four corners of the globe. That’s a bit like Moses isn’t it? So the descendants of Abraham do not have anything really worth arguing about. It took them a while to grasp that point. Clearly you saw it right away.

Who are these Souls saying Jesus said this or that. The New Testament character Jesus did not speak to them. It was an obscure writer saying those words, a writer who was not a witness to such events that he describes. Next they will say they will go get Sherlock Holmes on the case. Whatever happened to a thing called reality eh? Must have got sucked into the twilight zone.

For me, I don't believe in Jesus because he was predicted to come. I believe in him (as a person) because of the extremely high intelligence I've found in his words. The Christians don't follow the words of Christ, they follow the words of Paul, who was a very bad person. Although Paul stopped killing and imprisoning people, a leopard can not change his spots. The bad things Paul did before required him to make justifications in his mind, and those justifications did not simply disappear. They are strongly evident in his writings. So when one reads the words of Paul, one comes across all these justifications for his past actions, and it really distorts reality and can even make a person into a very bad person.

So what's this "Exodus" your planning? Could you give us the basic idea of how it works, and stuff?

Tony

Starjade · May 3, 2015

Tony- might I point out that you do believe the New Testament claims about Jesus as your post shows openly. Yet if you took a step back and think about it you might come to realise that nobody called Jesus made any statements in the New Testament. It was all statements made by unknown obscure writers relating a tale that you and others now believe. Yet when you speak it is as if some personal statement from Jesus was being made.

There is no historical evidence that Jesus and his disciples ever lived. No evidence of a birth no evidence of any miracles no evidence of any death. It is all simply stories writ by unknown obscure writers who were simply fabricating tales they stole from the Old Testament to create their storylines. I have given chapter and verse of where they stole those stories from. It does not take much for an imaginative writer to expand a plot.

I used to like reading Grimm’s fairy tales however; I was not a fool to believe them to be real just because they were writ in such a believable manner.

Tony you said; So what's this "Exodus" your planning? Could you give us the basic idea of how it works, and stuff?

Starjade says; you see this is part of the problem with false religions. Christianity claims that their New Testament character Jesus is the long awaited Prophet that the Living God promised Moses he would raise up. Islam claims that Muhammad is that long awaited prophesied Deuteronomy Prophet. Two religions both are claiming the arrival of that long awaited Deuteronomy Prophet.

Deuteronomy 18:15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
Deuteronomy 18:17 And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken.

Deuteronomy 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
Deuteronomy 18:19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

Starjade continues. As I am the only one here speaking on behalf of the actual "Living God" then let me point out right now that the “Living God” only promised to raise up only one very specific Prophet. In Judaism the Hebrew's have been waiting for that specific Prophesied Prophet to come to this Planet from the “Living God” and gather them all up from the four corners of the globe and lead them all to a new promised land. This event would occur just before an apocalypse that will strike this Planet causing an extinction of the species.

The long awaited Deuteronomy Prophet was going to save the lives of those descendants of Abraham and as they would be the last surviving race of humans on this Planet, along with some alien residents, then that would make them the master race on earth if they Exodus out from the four corners of the globe in preparation for that Doomsday.

This was the act and deeds prophesied and expected from that long awaited Deuteronomy Prophet.

Of course as Time passed fools became impatient and unbelieving in those religious prophecies. As Time passed it was seen to be an advantage to populations if such a prophet had arrived. So in the Past as a derivative of Judaism, the Romans created Christianity and used tales from the Old Testament to make it appear as if their characters were genuine and fed it to their children. They like you became believers. However, as history and the New Testament shows. This character Jesus did not fulfil such End of Times Prophecies.

There was no Exodus which was why the Deuteronomy Prophet was going to appear in the first place.

Others beguiled by these fabricated tales of Christianity came out of the woodwork.

Muhammad of Islamic fame claimed he was the Prophet that the Living God promised Moses he would raise up. Not realising the Christians had proclaimed Jesus to be that long awaited Prophet. Muhammad then proclaimed that the Christians Angel Gabriel had appeared in a cave and told him that he alone was that long awaited Deuteronomy Prophet. History shows two religions Christianity and Islam both claiming either Jesus or Muhammad was that very specific long awaited Prophet.

Once again there was no Exodus plan and no details of the ever nearing apocalypse the many prophesied signs in the heavens had not occured and the descendants of Abraham were still not scattered to the four corners of the globe. .

As with the Romans Christian tales of Jesus - Muhammad also had no Exodus plans to Exodus all descendants of Abraham out from the four corners of the globe preparing them for that ever nearing apocalyptic day. That could not have been done because the descendants of Abraham were not then scattered to the four corners of the globe as the "Living God" said they would be.

The reason being of course that the End of Times prophecy was not being fulfilled was because Christianity and Islam were frauds fabricated by man by people I add who hated the descendants of Abraham for many reasons.

I point out again that the “Living God” only promised to raise up only one specific Prophet not two. So regarding Christianity and Islamic claims one or both just have to be lying. There is no other logical conclusion.

Regarding the origins of Christianity and Islam,

I continue to point out that during these Times in history the descendants of Abraham were not then scattered to the four corners of the globe. That scattering only happened in world war two when Nazi Germans began to melt down the Jews in acid baths. Only now in this Time period are the descendants of Abraham scattered to the four corners of the globe.

Only in our Time is the ability to contact all people on earth due to telephones Tv and the Internet. Previously it could not be possible to contact anyone world wide even though that did not matter as those descendants of Abraham were not then scattered to the four corners of the globe showing just from that, that the Claims of Christianity and Islam were false.

It may interest you to know that Hitler was a Roman Catholic. The Nazi’s were named because of the Christian claim that Jesus was a Nazirene. Do you get the point. Kill off the Jews and steal their religion. Power and taxes from the people. They did not care that Christianity was false, they did not care about the prophesied apocalypse. It is all about gaining controlling power over the people.

As for the arrival of the long awaited prophesied Deuteronomy Prophet. He would see and condemn those frauds. As you do see me openly do and exposing their lies chapter and verse.

The Deuteronomy Prophet was prophesied to be coming to this Planet to gather up the descendants of Abraham from the four corners of the globe and lead them all to a new promised land along with some Alien residents. This is what the Hebrews have waited thousands of years for and keeping faith expecting that Deuteronomy Prophet to come and Exodus then out from the four corners of the globe Just as the Living God had said. That is what These Exodus plans I speak about are about. It is the fulfilment of that very specific promise from the Living God and that Exodus of the descendants of Abraham.

Should the descendants of Abraham listen to those plans and Exodus. Then their lives can be saved in their millions of millions. That is why the Deuteronomy Prophet holds the title of being a Saviour. The descendants of Abraham always liked to have a king rule over them. So they were allowed a mortal ordinary man King. However, the long awaited Deuteronomy Prophet holds a rank higher than such a King. That is why he has the title of a Lord King - a King of Kings. Do you understand? For that long awaited Deuteronomy Prophet is the absolute King of the Jews even above any material king they may have ruling them.

As for the pretenders to my Throne. You have condemned yourselves for following false prophets and gods of mans imagination. Your religious beliefs make me powerless to save you. No matter, I was coming here first for the descendants of Abraham. But like I said they have always had alien residents walking amongst them and so if the followers of false religions convert then they open up the opportunity to be saved.

On a day in the future duration of less than 15 minutes an apocalypse will be taking place on this Planet ending with a 900km eruption blasting all kinds of nastiness into this Planets atmosphere suffocating this planet. Countries and Cities worldwide will have their buildings crumble and fall to the ground. I have already detailed these events.

Many will call out for your fabricated Saviour Jesus or Muhammad. However, as you watch your friends and children die you will find your prayers were just wasted wind in an empty wilderness.

JoStories · May 3, 2015

Conceivia said:
The word "most" means more than 50%.

We all speak for God. When every we tell people what we believe God says/wants or what is God's laws.

Who cares if it is "a bit far fetched". I'm offering you a chance to save as many as 7 billion people. This means that even if it is a million to one chance that I am right, you can think of it as the equivalent of 100% chance of saving up to 7,000 people.

Are you really that sure that you are right? That you would stake the lives of 7 billion people on your opinion that you are right and I am wrong? Because that is what is at stack, in fact far more than the lives of the current 7 billion people living today, but also the lives of all those who would live afterwards as well.

I could be wrong. I know that. But the fact is, if I am wrong, no real harm will come of it. The plan will either work, or it won't. Anyone who puts time and/or money into it is not really harmed, because their happiness is not lost. Rather, people who do things for mankind tend to be more happy, if anything.

I think God really doesn't care who saves mankind. If God knew of a homosexual, rapist, mass murdering psychopath who could save mankind, God would have selected that person. Even if that person would torture, mutilate, and then kill a billion people, if he was the only option, God would have selected him.

What I'm saying is that my life is not that important, and neither is your life. My need to be right is not that important either, and yours should not be either.

Tony

You may cause no harm but many have in the name of your God. Many have coerced, browbeaten, and worse, people into believing something that is not provable. You make the statement that 'we all speak for god'. That is patently false. I make no claim to speak for God as I am not that arrogant. Nor do I pretend to be able to tell people what God would want to say. How can I? How can you?

Starjade · May 3, 2015

JoStories said:
You may cause no harm but many have in the name of your God. Many have coerced, browbeaten, and worse, people into believing something that is not provable. You make the statement that 'we all speak for god'. That is patently false. I make no claim to speak for God as I am not that arrogant. Nor do I pretend to be able to tell people what God would want to say. How can I? How can you?

Starjade says; I share your thoughts also jostories. My teeth gnashed so often in the past when I come across those blasphemous twits who think that they have some god given right to speak on behalf of the "Living God" and my anger further blazed to find these were Christians and Muslims. Two fabricated religions and one that only gives worship to the moon. The gall these people have.

If a quote is taken from specific biblical text from established Prophets of God such as Moses. And then repeated. Even that is a preaching of what the "Living God says and wants" That could be acceptable when someone says wait this is what the "Living God" said and wanted. Other than that only the "Living God's" prophets have any right to speak on behalf of the "Living God"

Those from the false religions of Christianity and Islam have no right to speak as if they spoke for the "Living God" Christianity and Islam have been established as being false by the actual word of the "Living God". Deuteronomy Chapter 19 verses 15 onwards. A law brought down by Moses from the "Living God" himself. That means the actual word of the "Living God" says they have no right to speak. How apt.

Of course followers from such false religions stitch wings of self-righteousness upon themselves and then they fly too far over the cuckoos nest giving themselves undeserved ideas of religious superiority complexes over others they consider beneath them.

I spoke once to a Muslim. He said the word Muslim means one who gives themselves mind body and soul to Allah. The name Allah means supreme god. {even though Muslims god allah - is hubal al ilah} the moon.

I understood the thoughts he meant.

I said to that Muslim. Look here I cannot ever be a Muslim. You see the “Living God” already owns my mind body and soul. It was never mine to give.

Conceivia · May 3, 2015

JoStories said:
You may cause no harm but many have in the name of your God. Many have coerced, browbeaten, and worse, people into believing something that is not provable. You make the statement that 'we all speak for god'. That is patently false. I make no claim to speak for God as I am not that arrogant. Nor do I pretend to be able to tell people what God would want to say. How can I? How can you?

Seems to me it is extremely easy to tell the false religions from the truth. The false religions almost always (that I've seen) provide a selfish reward. They say do this, and you will be rewarded in Heaven, salvation, being carried away on a UFO, or whatever, and if you don't do this you will be punished in eternal hell fire, or whatever.

People seem to respond very well to selfish rewards, even if they are absurd fantasy land stuff. While, the idea of saving mankind, saving other people's lives or ending poverty, is something very few people seem to have any interest in.

As for not probable, I've got pretty solid proof and I've showed many people, but even absolute proof can easily be ignored by people who don't want to listen. It is like when astrologers first started trying to convince people that the World is round and it orbits around the Sun. They had proof, but that doesn't make the people believe. To get someone to believe, that person has to have a somewhat open mind.

Tony

Muffled · May 5, 2015

Thief said:
Most people of faith claim....Jesus IS God.

He said of Himself...'brother and fellow servant'.

As Teacher, His parables hold therein, the saving grace I lean to.

I believe this means you try to save yourself but I beleive you will not be able to do so.

I believe He called Himself God.

Muffled · May 5, 2015

Conceivia said:
For me, I don't believe in Jesus because he was predicted to come. I believe in him (as a person) because of the extremely high intelligence I've found in his words. The Christians don't follow the words of Christ, they follow the words of Paul, who was a very bad person. Although Paul stopped killing and imprisoning people, a leopard can not change his spots. The bad things Paul did before required him to make justifications in his mind, and those justifications did not simply disappear. They are strongly evident in his writings. So when one reads the words of Paul, one comes across all these justifications for his past actions, and it really distorts reality and can even make a person into a very bad person.

So what's this "Exodus" your planning? Could you give us the basic idea of how it works, and stuff?

Tony

I believe I follow Jesus which also means following the words of Paul.

I don't believe people are intrinsicly bad but that they act badly. Paul acted badly before his conversion and I believe acted according to the Paraclete after his conversion,

I believe I have never seen one.

Thief · May 5, 2015

Muffled said:
I believe this means you try to save yourself but I beleive you will not be able to do so.

I believe He called Himself God.

Ultimately...you either changed your mind and heart.....or you didn't.
His teachings point the way.
You are allowed to follow.

I say, if you follow in grace and show the desire and intention.....fine no problem.

If heaven sees a short coming...the angelic will draw sword and then a line in the sand.
You following stops there.

My belief is quite simple....don't you think so?

Conceivia · May 6, 2015

Muffled said:
I believe I follow Jesus which also means following the words of Paul.

I don't believe people are intrinsicly bad but that they act badly. Paul acted badly before his conversion and I believe acted according to the Paraclete after his conversion,

I believe I have never seen one.

Do you believe that Paul had no free will after his conversion? Do you believe there was nothing left of the human part of Paul?

Paul said that all human leaders are ordained by God, and to not do as they command is a sin against God. This includes Hilter, so anyone who disobeyed Hitler would be sinning against God, even those in other countries who went to war with him. So was that the Holy Spirit talking, or was that the human side of Paul?

You have to understand, Paul did bad things before his conversion. His mind had to make excuses for those bad things, and one of those excuses is to tell himself that his leaders are ordained by God. This is what allowed him to kill and torture people and imprison people.

If Paul had some human left in him, than you have to think carefully about everything he says to know if it is from God, or from human.

Tony

Conceivia · May 6, 2015

Muffled said:
I believe this means you try to save yourself but I beleive you will not be able to do so.

I believe He called Himself God.

I haven't seen anything in which Jesus calls himself God. I saw your tread on that subject, but to me it does not say that. It is well and good that it says that to you, perhaps following that trail will lead you to some understanding. I would only caution you to listen to Jesus, not Paul or Peter, or at least take their words with caution, as they are humans. Peter, for example denied Jesus 3 times, that could be a prophecy that his teachings would also deny Jesus in 3 ways.

Why it does not say that Jesus is God to me, it is like this. I can say "I am in God, and God is in me". It is not arrogance, nor a lie. I would not say it like that though. I would say rather that "God is in all of us, and all of us are in God". Means the same, but the understanding tends to be different.

It may have been necessary for people to understand it differently in the past, to pass on the word.

As an example, imagine you tell someone that the people will have to start a commune in 2,000 years, or mankind will be destroyed. Of course, it is a little more complicated than that, but just for example, lets make it easy. What are the odds that it will be remembered for 2,000 years?

Now, if you make them think they will receive some reward. For example, if you setup a printing press and print out some money, and then pay them $10 for each person they pass on the knowledge to, and continue to pay each person that passes it on for 2,000 years, than the word will e remembered.

Is that immoral? You have to consider what is at stake. If you know someone is going to die, and you do nothing to save that person, is that not immoral? If you have to tell a lie to save someone's life, do you lie or tell the truth?

If you tell the truth, 1000 people will die, but if you lie only 10 people will die. So do you lie, or do you tell the truth?

Even so, God does not seem to outright lie, only make it very easy for us to understand things wrong.

I say this. It does not help us to think about what happens after we die. We must concentrate on doing the right thing now, while we are alive. We must be good humans, help each other, etc, now while we are alive.

We have a chance to save mankind. What is the right thing to do?

1. You can say no, it won't work, without giving it more than a few moments of thought, which is basically the same as saying mankind is only work a few moments of your time.

2. You can tell yourself that God's plan is to destroy mankind, and trying to save mankind is going against God's plan. In which case, it is not much different than a person who would push the button and destroy mankind, thinking that is God's wish. Would you push the button?

3. You can say, it is possible, and the stakes are extremely high, so it is definitely worth a try.

Would it anger God if you try to save mankind? If you think that all you have to do is believe in Jesus' name, than that is not stopping you from trying to save mankind. If it is a sin to save mankind, than you can bypass it by believing in Jesus' name, right?

See, the only thing trying to save mankind can do is make you a better person.

Why not take your understanding of the Bible, and use it to end poverty, global warming, and bring about World Peace? Why not see if you can find information in the Bible that will benefit mankind? Information that can solve all these terrible problems mankind is facing.

Why do we seek only to save ourselves, when we can seek to save everyone? Which pleases God more?

Tony

Muffled · May 12, 2015

Conceivia said:
Do you believe that Paul had no free will after his conversion? Do you believe there was nothing left of the human part of Paul?

Paul said that all human leaders are ordained by God, and to not do as they command is a sin against God. This includes Hilter, so anyone who disobeyed Hitler would be sinning against God, even those in other countries who went to war with him. So was that the Holy Spirit talking, or was that the human side of Paul?

You have to understand, Paul did bad things before his conversion. His mind had to make excuses for those bad things, and one of those excuses is to tell himself that his leaders are ordained by God. This is what allowed him to kill and torture people and imprison people.

If Paul had some human left in him, than you have to think carefully about everything he says to know if it is from God, or from human.

Tony

Ga 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I that live, but Christ living in me: and that life which I now live in the flesh I live in faith, the faith which is in the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself up for me.
I believe there is room to live in the flesh but still there is that underlying safety net of His salvation.

Rom 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to the good work, but to the evil.

Sometimes it is difficult to see what God is doing. What evil was Hitler destroyiing? Communism? I believe Paul is not saying that it is a sin but simply that one has to recognize who is in power. People who acted against Hitler ended up in a concentration camp. However Paul's advice is not to participate in evil but to do what is good.

I beleive I have never seen Paul justify his actions and it doesn't show up in these verses.

I believe there is a time for everything and that Paul like me when writing completely belonged to the Paraclete.

Muffled · May 12, 2015

Conceivia said:
I haven't seen anything in which Jesus calls himself God. I saw your tread on that subject, but to me it does not say that. It is well and good that it says that to you, perhaps following that trail will lead you to some understanding. I would only caution you to listen to Jesus, not Paul or Peter, or at least take their words with caution, as they are humans. Peter, for example denied Jesus 3 times, that could be a prophecy that his teachings would also deny Jesus in 3 ways.

Why it does not say that Jesus is God to me, it is like this. I can say "I am in God, and God is in me". It is not arrogance, nor a lie. I would not say it like that though. I would say rather that "God is in all of us, and all of us are in God". Means the same, but the understanding tends to be different.

It may have been necessary for people to understand it differently in the past, to pass on the word.

As an example, imagine you tell someone that the people will have to start a commune in 2,000 years, or mankind will be destroyed. Of course, it is a little more complicated than that, but just for example, lets make it easy. What are the odds that it will be remembered for 2,000 years?

Now, if you make them think they will receive some reward. For example, if you setup a printing press and print out some money, and then pay them $10 for each person they pass on the knowledge to, and continue to pay each person that passes it on for 2,000 years, than the word will e remembered.

Is that immoral? You have to consider what is at stake. If you know someone is going to die, and you do nothing to save that person, is that not immoral? If you have to tell a lie to save someone's life, do you lie or tell the truth?

If you tell the truth, 1000 people will die, but if you lie only 10 people will die. So do you lie, or do you tell the truth?

Even so, God does not seem to outright lie, only make it very easy for us to understand things wrong.

I say this. It does not help us to think about what happens after we die. We must concentrate on doing the right thing now, while we are alive. We must be good humans, help each other, etc, now while we are alive.

We have a chance to save mankind. What is the right thing to do?

1. You can say no, it won't work, without giving it more than a few moments of thought, which is basically the same as saying mankind is only work a few moments of your time.

2. You can tell yourself that God's plan is to destroy mankind, and trying to save mankind is going against God's plan. In which case, it is not much different than a person who would push the button and destroy mankind, thinking that is God's wish. Would you push the button?

3. You can say, it is possible, and the stakes are extremely high, so it is definitely worth a try.

Would it anger God if you try to save mankind? If you think that all you have to do is believe in Jesus' name, than that is not stopping you from trying to save mankind. If it is a sin to save mankind, than you can bypass it by believing in Jesus' name, right?

See, the only thing trying to save mankind can do is make you a better person.

Why not take your understanding of the Bible, and use it to end poverty, global warming, and bring about World Peace? Why not see if you can find information in the Bible that will benefit mankind? Information that can solve all these terrible problems mankind is facing.

Why do we seek only to save ourselves, when we can seek to save everyone? Which pleases God more?

Tony

I believe all the writers had the Paraclete.

I believe that was before Peter received the Paraclete.

I believe this is one of many taken together that prove Jesus is God in the flesh. I believe you can't say that you are in God nor can anyone having the Paraclete say it even though God is in us. Yes there is the concept that God is everywhere so within us as well but that does not include God working in us and Jesus makes that distinction.

I believe there is a 4. God plans to save the world through us.

I believe doing anything other than God's will is a waste of time and effort and there is no credit for good works that God has not ordained.

Jesus is not the Savior

Jesus in me

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Working to save mankind

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Jesus in me

Jesus in me

Rogue Theologian

Working to save mankind

Working to save mankind

Jesus in me

Jesus in me