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religion is slowly dying?

D

Deadtroopers

Member
Serenity7855 said:
Why do you want to understand me. I pose no threat or offer no interference in your life, so why do you need to understand me.



Not really. It is a question that always produced the same unreliable response, that is true, however, nobody has ever given a rational and honest response.



If that is what you believe then let me assure you that I am here to debate points of interest to me and to defend, what I believe, is true. If I were not then I would say so. I do not lie or decieve.



The Plan of Salvation is the basis of all christianity. It is the core of Christianity and the reason for our existence. This is what Wiki says about it



This should demonstrate for you that the Plan of Salvation is fundamental to Christianity and not just to me.



Originally I came here to debate with fellow Christians about their differing beliefs, that is, until I realised that these forums are predominantly frequented by atheists and anti theists. My reasoning very quickly changed from looking for a debate into defending the truth and then to being selective with the fires I fight, because some anti theists just want to argue mute points rather then understanding.



If you check my post you will find that does not happen. There is usually retorts that require an answer in which the Plan of Salvation needs to be mention.



As previously mentioned, it is not my own personal belief. I am an individualist. There is an unknown number of us in the world today. A spokesman for the Catholic Church recently announced that individualism had taken 25% of their congregation over the last decade. That, on its own, equates to a significant voice that is gradually being heard. Most individualists believe in a reason for our existence. A cause for our effect, followed by a consequence. Anything else is apocryphal.

If it were a voice in my head, something I have never heard, or a feeling in my heart, which I have felt but not in relationship to the Holy Ghost, then I would question it, however, the communication from the Holy Ghost is separate and distinct, not to be confused by our own bodily reactions. Anyone who has felt the Holy Ghost will tell you that it is an external influence or force that enters the body and interacts with all of its neurons. It is unmistakably distinct. It never, but never, speaks in words. It is alway conceptual and invariable passes on knew knowledge. Thing which you did not know prior to the epiphany. Once you have received this there is no going back. It is impossible to lose your faith or go contrary to the existence of a loving God.



I did not diss Paul. I describe him as he was. He wrote letters that God used to compile the Holy Scriptures. His life and persona are irrelevant to the bible. It is his words that God needed.



I am sure that Paul's ability to convey his message is quiet eloquent and profound, and surpasses my own abilities by far, but God did not require my writings, he needed Paul's. That is one good reason why we have the bible as it is. Because people like Paul have been so eloquently descriptive in his words



It is true that Mormons believe in the Plan of Salvation, however, they have never owned it. There are numerous denominations who base their belief on it. So, no it is not a reworking of anything. It has existed from the foundation of the world.



I have just one God, Elohim. The same God as Paul worshipped.



I have no knowledge about that. I do not consider it a relevance to our mortal probation.



I believe that God is an eternal being who has existed, in one form or another, for eternity.



I have never seen them and I have never seriously considered what their physical state is



I do not know where they are. I have never considered it necessary to know.



I suggest you investigate further at which time you will find this to be untrue.





The bible plays a necessary part.



The only reason we have it is because God wanted it to be so.



They were inspired by God.



I am not entirely sure why you are introducing the first prophet of the Mormon Church. I was once a Mormon but Joseph Smith was one of my stumbling blocks. I neither know that he was what he said he was or do not know. There are some pretty fantastic claims made about him and what he achieved but there are some major concerns about his integrity and character. I do not take his word for it that he translated the Book of Mormon from brass plates, however, the Book of Mormon was at least written by him in a little over 60 days at which time he was quite illiterate. It is all very well people shouting charlatan, treasure hunter and scoundrel but how does a young man with very little formal education write a book about a ancient civilisation in such a short time that translates back into and from Egyption perfectly. Another thread maybe.



I should feel complimented that you think that I am capable of such a fête. I do not have that kind of knowledge and wisdom required to fulfil such a monumental task. You are correct though, the Holy Ghost has validated it for me.


I did not say it is unknown I said that we do not discuss it.



This is made up, unless you can prove otherwise.

Did Jesus have the courage or was it a lack of choice. He accepted his role in the council of the God but he didn't know just how bad things would be until he got to the Garden of Gethsemane where he pleaded with the father to take that cup from him. So bad was it that God sent an angel to administer to him and he continued on. This demonstrates that he was both a God and a man.



Anybody can obtain this. All you need do is to plant the seed of belief in your heart, nurture it and feed it and eventually you will experience the testimony of the Holy Ghost. The Majority of the world claim that some kind of divinity exists. It is those who do not believe who are in the minority. So, the majority of others already have it. It is a misconception to think that non believer's are in the majority. Out of 7 billion people there is only 1.1 billion who believe in nothing.



How do you reach that conclusion? The only method of communicating a perfect God is via a spirit called the Holy Ghost. Perfection and imperfect cannot coexist less one becomes corrupt or the other is destroyed in an instant. The Holy Ghost is the intercessor between diety and mankind and his influence fills the immensity of space. There is no space where he does not exist. How else could billions of prayers be answered in the same instance?



I did not say I concieve it in its entirety. I am still learning. I learn much on here.



That is the standard atheist response. If you are intellectually wise in claiming that deity does not exist, then how can you be interested in a nonentity, an nonexistent being. He does not exist. How can you have an intellectual interest in nothing. That you have no belief is fine. But you have to have continuity in your belief. There is either something or there is nothing, or there are fence sitters - agnostics.



Yes.



Yes, I can see this, however, as I said below, if God is the sum total of a bunch of neurons then that is fine. I will be dead so will not know either way. But if he is not then the choices I have made were correct. For me it is a win win situation. I cannot lose.



I presume you refer to the sons of perdition, which will be the fate of those whose calling and election was made sure, then they denounced it. There will be but few of these individual, so, I would not assign you to being a son of perdition. Damned, yes, possible, but perdition, no, never. Most of us will be enjoying the kingdoms of the damned.

Do you know, that in my belief, I am extremely happy in my skin. It works for me and my family and it gives me a fantastic eternal perspective of life. No end of life, no death, no separation of loved ones. And if I am totally wrong, so what? I will not care, I will be dead.



Look, I really do not mind you ridiculing or trying to discredit my belief, especially in the constructive manner in which you do it. I to have done the same about my belief. If I could findmajor errors in it then It would be like a lamb going to the slaughter for me here. I am reasonably confident though that I can adequately defend my beliefs, or otherwise I would be pretty stupid to claim what I claim. If I didn't want that then I wouldn't/shouldn't be here. Yes, you are completely right. I appreciate your candor and honesty. It is a real shame that forums like this do not contain more like you.
Click to expand...

Sorry I have been so long getting back to you. I went away for a think; I was going to bail out and erase my existence here. Much on these Forums is an exercise of futile circularity. My patience and perseverance with you seems to have worked however. You are now 'engaging and debating' approximately as I understand those terms. Now you are explaining yourself in a fashion I can better understand I see I was mistaken as to some of your beliefs. My apologies for those infelicities. Inevitably; because our world-views are so far apart; you have some misunderstandings of my position (and that of other atheists) also. I will come to our respective mistakes in due course; for the moment I would just like to say I laughed at your writing "Originally I came here to debate with fellow Christians about their differing beliefs, that is, until I realised that these forums are predominantly frequented by atheists and anti theists." Mine was a mirror reaction to your's; substitute theists and anti-atheists. As I said; I almost folded my tent.

There is a lot to absorb in your last post. I am going away shortly, opening Libre Office Writer and giving it the attention and considered response you deserve.
Thanks again and I will catch you later (Though hopefully before the weekends is out rather than another month's time :D). Ta Tah For Now.
 
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U

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
psychoslice said:
Yes as long as the human race stay the way they are there will always be religion, but that doesn't mean we cannot change and do away with religion.
Click to expand...

When the Jews in ancient Jerusalem became apostate then God used the Roman armies in the year 70 to do away with them.
The United Nations today sees a hauntingly dangerous religious climate brewing in today's world. With backing the U.N. can be strengthened to become God's modern day long-arm-of-the-law to carry out His justice against run-afoul religious groups.
So, that won't be the end of religion but the end of false religious groups claiming to represent God.
The part of the human race which will ' stay the way they are ' are those who are considered as the ' righteous ones ' of Matthew 25 vs 31,32,37.
They will be the foundation of Jesus' coming 1000-year governmental rulership over earth. - Psalms 72 vs 8,12-14; 37 vs 11,29
 
psychoslice

psychoslice

Veteran Member
URAVIP2ME said:
When the Jews in ancient Jerusalem became apostate then God used the Roman armies in the year 70 to do away with them.
The United Nations today sees a hauntingly dangerous religious climate brewing in today's world. With backing the U.N. can be strengthened to become God's modern day long-arm-of-the-law to carry out His justice against run-afoul religious groups.
So, that won't be the end of religion but the end of false religious groups claiming to represent God.
The part of the human race which will ' stay the way they are ' are those who are considered as the ' righteous ones ' of Matthew 25 vs 31,32,37.
They will be the foundation of Jesus' coming 1000-year governmental rulership over earth. - Psalms 72 vs 8,12-14; 37 vs 11,29
Click to expand...
Yes that would make sense if I believed in God or Jesus.
 
Serenity7855

Serenity7855

Lambaster of the Angry Anti-Theists
Thirza Fallen said:
Religion is waning in the US, but is growing in third world countries.
Click to expand...

That ain't what I heard. Yes, it is declining, as prophesied, but not by much. Indeed, the Catholic Church attribute their waning congregation to individualism. They claim to have lost a quarter of their congregation, over the last decade, to individualism, so, not so much waning as shifting, and as it is almost impossible to determine how many individualists there are, it gives an appearance of waning when it is probably increasing. Last time I looked, the USA had 86% of their population believing in a religion. That ain't that bad compared to us in the UK.
 
Serenity7855

Serenity7855

Lambaster of the Angry Anti-Theists
psychoslice said:
Yes that would make sense if I believed in God or Jesus.
Click to expand...

How do they intend to determine
URAVIP2ME said:
When the Jews in ancient Jerusalem became apostate then God used the Roman armies in the year 70 to do away with them.
The United Nations today sees a hauntingly dangerous religious climate brewing in today's world. With backing the U.N. can be strengthened to become God's modern day long-arm-of-the-law to carry out His justice against run-afoul religious groups.
So, that won't be the end of religion but the end of false religious groups claiming to represent God.
The part of the human race which will ' stay the way they are ' are those who are considered as the ' righteous ones ' of Matthew 25 vs 31,32,37.
They will be the foundation of Jesus' coming 1000-year governmental rulership over earth. - Psalms 72 vs 8,12-14; 37 vs 11,29
Click to expand...

How do they intend to determine what religious group is false. Surely all organised religions must be false by claiming to represent God. As far as I know God has never given any of the 4300 religions his permission to act in his name. As far as I know God never intended to have organised religions, just a Christian lifestyle. Jesus says, whenever two or three are gathered in my name there shall I be in their midst - He didn't say "so build an alter, walls and a roof, put on some strange looking atire and preach man's interpretations of God's word". Mankind has taken it upon himself to take christianity and change it from a personal experience and make it into a congregational one. Why would we do that, unless we got a little help from the master deceiver? Religion is a way of life, to strive to follow the Teachings of Christ, individual man made denominations are unnecessary and alway breed contention.
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
scanz0r said:
I can't remember where i read this, or perhaps heard it.. but i've heard/read that religions are slowl declining in favour of science.. would you say this is true? in 200 years from now might there be no religion ? your opinion :) I'm not sure, so I have no answer I guess..
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Religion is not dying. Science is not designed to oppose or contradict; it only brings out what has been created by G-d under the systems fixed by Him. Therefore, the truthful religion is spreading in all parts of the world in real terms.

Regards
 
Guy Threepwood

Guy Threepwood

Mighty Pirate
paarsurrey said:
Religion is not dying. Science is not designed to oppose or contradict; it only brings out what has been created by G-d under the systems fixed by Him. Therefore, the truthful religion is spreading in all parts of the world in real terms.

Regards
Click to expand...

Nature is the executor of God's laws (Galileo) & science is how we explore, learn about creation, what better way to appreciate it?
 
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Guy Threepwood

Guy Threepwood

Mighty Pirate
Thirza Fallen said:
Religion is waning in the US, but is growing in third world countries.
Click to expand...

Yes it does seems to track with ascendancy and decline. Atheism as mandated in Russia & China, tracked with their economic descent, while faith is again returning with freedom and prosperity . North Korea I'm sure could do likewise given the chance.
 
Bunyip

Bunyip

pro scapegoat
Guy Threepwood said:
Yes it does seems to track with ascendancy and decline. Atheism as mandated in Russia & China, tracked with their economic descent, while faith is again returning with freedom and prosperity . North Korea I'm sure could do likewise given the chance.
Click to expand...
Dude China is now the most powerful economy on earth. If you think China is on the decline you must not have read a newspaper in 40 years. China has always been atheist by the way, and North Korea is a theocracy.
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Guy Threepwood said:
Nature is the executor of God's laws (Galileo) & science is how we explore, learn about creation, what better way to appreciate it?
Click to expand...

Nature is the Work of G-d while Quran (and other scriptures in original language and original form) is the Word of G-d, there is no real contradiction in them, if one sees some difference that is due to wrong understanding of either of them or both of them.

Regards
 
Guy Threepwood

Guy Threepwood

Mighty Pirate
Bunyip said:
Dude China is now the most powerful economy on earth. If you think China is on the decline you must not have read a newspaper in 40 years. China has always been atheist by the way, and North Korea is a theocracy.
Click to expand...

read again, I said faith is returning with prosperity
 
Bunyip

Bunyip

pro scapegoat
Guy Threepwood said:
read again, I said faith is returning with prosperity
Click to expand...
Yes, and of course China remains atheist. So what your point was is rather lost. Look at a list of the most prosperous and peaceful countries - the least religious tend to be at the top, and the most religious at the bottom.
Peace prosperity and equality are inversely proportional to faith.
 
Guy Threepwood

Guy Threepwood

Mighty Pirate
Bunyip said:
Yes, and of course China remains atheist. So what your point was is rather lost. Look at a list of the most prosperous and peaceful countries - the least religious tend to be at the top, and the most religious at the bottom.
Peace prosperity and equality are inversely proportional to faith.
Click to expand...

Christianity is booming in China today along with the economy- that's hardly a controversial observation-

same in Russia

only two of the largest countries in the world
 
Bunyip

Bunyip

pro scapegoat
Guy Threepwood said:
Christianity is booming in China today along with the economy- that's hardly a controversial observation-

same in Russia

only two of the largest countries in the world
Click to expand...
No it isn't. Only a minute fraction of Chinese are Christian. The state established a Church a few years ago and it is a teeny tiny minority. So to say that it is booming in China is hopelessly optimistic. Stalin by the way founded the Russian Orthodox Church, he opened 25,000 of them.
Russia by the way is a basket case, the economy is a total disaster.
 
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