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The Iran Deal: Good, Bad, Huh … ?
- Thread starter Jayhawker Soule
- Start date
Agreed.
The critics bear the burden of explaining what their alternative is, and as best I can tell they have little to offer but whining.
It's like the health care debate. The Republicans keep chanting "Obamacare is bad, Obamacare is bad, Obamacare is bad, etc" but for fifty years they offered nothing, and still haven't put a serious alternative on the table. This isn't a partisan comment, the Dems often do the same thing. Bush was always wrong, wrong, wrong whatever he did or didn't do too.
We should applaud those who can bring forward a better alternative, or even a serious option to consider. But those who whine without offering an alternative of their own should be told to sit down and shut the #$%# up.
The standard response is: "Hate them more, distrust them more, and sanction them more!" …
… but I've yet to hear anyone articulate how doing more of what's failed is likely to achieve better results.
I would be interested in seeing a credible critique of the Fact Sheet: Iran's Nuclear and Ballistic Missile Program and the organization behind it.
Exactly.
The west in general, and the USA in particular, have boxed themselves in with greed based policies for decades. We've supported every dictator who came along and kept the oil flowing, regardless of the impact on the people who live there.
Now everybody is surprised to find that they hate us and want weapons that will make the USA think twice before toppling a government or invading.
Tom
There's truth in that, and a larger picture too. For decades the U.S. was the only country with the means to resist the Soviet Union, and fighting that struggle required a good deal of unpleasant nasty back alley knife fights etc. One generally does not beat the bad guys by going to church.
While we are focusing our efforts on limiting Iran's nuclear program, Saudi Arabia is funding Pakistan's nuclear ambitions and might purchase the bomb very soon, if that's not already the case. There is also (exempted) Israel, widely believed to possess stockpiles of nuclear arms. Ah, and did I forgot North Korea?
But we all know what the alternative is: Lauching airstrikes on Iran.
Bibi and the Republicans have been craving to do just that for a while now, whether there is any such arms at all, a theory that seems to be based on shaky evidence, they are advocating for a military intervention with the true purpose of denying Iran any more influence in the Middle-East.
But we all know what the alternative is: Lauching airstrikes on Iran.
Bibi and the Republicans have been craving to do just that for a while now, whether there is any such arms at all, a theory that seems to be based on shaky evidence, they are advocating for a military intervention with the true purpose of denying Iran any more influence in the Middle-East.
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I think that is a very reputable organization and find the report to be reasonable. I note comments like this:
To me Iran is determined to be a regional power and to support Shi'a Muslims everywhere possible. I also see Iran as a continuing source of making life miserable for Israel by supporting terrorists. The deal won't change that. More sanctions won't change that.
I think the deal offers a better chance of slowing down Iran's nuclear program than no deal and that's why I'm in favor of it assuming that we see real inspections and so forth in the final details and that sanctions are only removed slowly.
An addendum. More sanctions is not what the Israeli and American right wings are proposing. If the right wings of both countries have their way, we'd see meaningless bombing that would not stop Iran but would in fact unite the Iranian people behind the government. And I'm convinced that Iran would produce nuclear weapons very quickly as well as unleashing attacks on Israel and not through very limited actions by proxies but direct attacks.
‘Israel needs to find the right time to stop Iran’s nuclear program’ - Middle East - Jerusalem Post
This is delusional. Even the Iranian Parliament said no such deal claimed by the Obama regime was ever agreed upon by Iran in framework, what Obama is saying as the fact sheets are lies.
The tyrant (called the "Supreme Leader") Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, who has the final word on all matters of state, was "defiant over a final deal" and said Obama is a "backstabber".
This is what happens when a regime, a rouge unilateralist acting unconstitutionally without the approval of the people's Congress starts making treaties on his own as if he has the right to do so as Obama is doing, we end up with a one man show-(off) that is then called "America" but is not America but a one man show-(off) acting like yet another tyrant who is illiterate in the actual reality of the world, messing up everything and bringing the entire region into chaos.
It doesn't matter if the "deal" is "good" or "bad", the issue is do we have a Republic or a Democracy anymore? There is no "deal", there never will be, it is only Obama's paper medal he has hung on his chest. Just like he is doing in relationship to the Cuban dictatorship, in that case now all he is doing is saving that failed regime the last minute and giving them enough money so the Cuban zealot regime can now also pursue a nuclear bomb of their own. North Korea got the bomb while Clinton told Americans the same "deal". None of this is "working". Obama is a disaster.
The real question the so-called journalists at those rather pathetic "news conferences" with the "White House" should be asking is, not whether this is a good deal or a bad deal, since there is no deal, but rather:
"Mister President, what is the difference between you just doing things unilaterally without the representatives of the people in Congress and the Ayatollah?"
LINK:
Iran lawmakers demand 'fact sheet' on nuclear deal - Yahoo News
By the way, why is this in the "Indigenous Religions and Myth DIR"?
Is the "deal" (ha ha), the "framework" (ha ha ha), a ME indigenous religion? Or is the "deal" (lol) a ME myth?
The tyrant (called the "Supreme Leader") Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, who has the final word on all matters of state, was "defiant over a final deal" and said Obama is a "backstabber".
This is what happens when a regime, a rouge unilateralist acting unconstitutionally without the approval of the people's Congress starts making treaties on his own as if he has the right to do so as Obama is doing, we end up with a one man show-(off) that is then called "America" but is not America but a one man show-(off) acting like yet another tyrant who is illiterate in the actual reality of the world, messing up everything and bringing the entire region into chaos.
It doesn't matter if the "deal" is "good" or "bad", the issue is do we have a Republic or a Democracy anymore? There is no "deal", there never will be, it is only Obama's paper medal he has hung on his chest. Just like he is doing in relationship to the Cuban dictatorship, in that case now all he is doing is saving that failed regime the last minute and giving them enough money so the Cuban zealot regime can now also pursue a nuclear bomb of their own. North Korea got the bomb while Clinton told Americans the same "deal". None of this is "working". Obama is a disaster.
The real question the so-called journalists at those rather pathetic "news conferences" with the "White House" should be asking is, not whether this is a good deal or a bad deal, since there is no deal, but rather:
"Mister President, what is the difference between you just doing things unilaterally without the representatives of the people in Congress and the Ayatollah?"
LINK:
Iran lawmakers demand 'fact sheet' on nuclear deal - Yahoo News
By the way, why is this in the "Indigenous Religions and Myth DIR"?
Is the "deal" (ha ha), the "framework" (ha ha ha), a ME indigenous religion? Or is the "deal" (lol) a ME myth?
Exactly.
There are still disagreements and challenges ahead but that was to be expected. They still have 3 months of negotiations in front of them to iron out these differences. The fact sheets are not ''lies'', they simply are different interpretations, based on yet unresolved issues.
The tentative agreement is only what it is: 'tentative'. The bottom line is that both sides agree to limit Iran's nuclear program in exchange of lifiting the sanctions. There are still various aspects and details to go over to make it a 'final deal'.
What the Ayatollah says is that he won't agree to a one-sided deal. They want the sanctions lifted as soon as both parties reach a final agreement, but the US wants a progressive, step-by-step approach. That is still a major difference that needs to be overcome.
But the Supreme Leader fully supports the ongoing negotiations, and that is very positive. He's just skeptical and remain on the fence.
Servant_of_the_One1
Well-Known Member
What is the alternative? More War!
Just give the deal a chance.
Just give the deal a chance.
I'm not in favor of a deal on any terms. Unless Iran goes along with it including intrusive inspections, we should walk away from the table. I suspect, though, that what we're seeing from Iran is "Kabuki" and that they'll agree to a final deal. But if they don't, then the consequences are on their heads.
I just posted (and deleted) the same story. Putin is slowly trying to recreate the cold war by swallowing territory and doing things like this.
Salek Atesh
Active Member
Yes. That would be stupid. The USSR and USA hated one another for many, many years. And both had nuclear bombs, and nuclear missiles. Neither used their weapons because they were not stupid. Both knew doing so would be their end, in mutually assured destruction.
Iran, on the other hand, is small by comparison to the USSR or USA. And if they used a nuclear weapon, they'd have TWO nations both HIGHLY STOCKED in nuclear weapons, instantly blow them off of the face of the earth.
Iran knows that two nuclear powers exist, both of which have continuously expressed their desire to destroy Iran, and probably for that reason has condemned the use of nuclear weapons in a fatwa.
Iran probably does want nuclear weapons. But probably not for the purposes of using them. Because that would be suicide, and greedy, corrupt politicians usually don't like the idea of ending their lives of luxury. They probably want the weapons as a deterrent, so that the two aforementioned nuclear powers who frequently voice their desires to destroy Iran think twice about attempting to act on their words.
They're not the best government in the world, after all they repress my own religion there, but they aren't stupid enough to commit mass suicide in that fashion. Especially not since Iran-allied Shia governments are mostly winning throughout the Middle East. Why commit suicide to take out a few enemies when your team is winning??
But anyways, what I mainly came here for is: why is this under Indigenous Myths??
Hillary Clinton wouldn't even put Boko Haram on the terrorist list under her administrative "leadership", shades of Obama calling ISIS a "J.V. team" no one needs to worry about. We now see mornful women in Nigeria in a mass silent protest with masks on their faces marking today, April 14, incliding events taking place around the world to mark one year since Boko Haram militants abducted nearly 300 schoolgirls in Nigeria, sparking global outrage. Yesterday I watched ISIS smash even more priceless, irreplacable ancient artifacts by Obama's "J.V. team", the famous human-headed lions and animals admired by artists and historians world wide which survived 5,000 years but couldn't survive Obama's policies now gone forever. TALK ABOUT DESTROYING Indigenous Religions in the ME, this is real time now.
Should those who can do something, have done something? Yes. Not hold up some "hash tag". Obama thinks removing sanctions on Iran, sanctions which do work, is more important than these other things so he can look like he even has a "policy" which in fact doesn't work and nothing this tyrant has done works, nothing.
Congress should and must stand up to this one man show-(off) and Enemy of Democracy (EOD) Obama, and am demanding they do along with millions. Obama is enabling the Bomb, not de-escalating anything, if this idiot pulls off another madcap act in the short term energy outlook as the U.S. Energy Information Administration warned the lifting of Iranian oil sanctions will drop crude prices by $15 dollars per barrel as Iran rushes to flood oil to get any money they can to desparately revenue their nuclear bomb agenda back on track. There will be significant increased volume of Iranian barrels to enter the market and fund their nuclear war plans. It will futher weaken Saudi and Jordan and others resistance to ISIS and Iranian hegemony. Obama is the absolute worst in American history and violating our constitutional democratic processes. Hopefully he will be held accountable.
Should those who can do something, have done something? Yes. Not hold up some "hash tag". Obama thinks removing sanctions on Iran, sanctions which do work, is more important than these other things so he can look like he even has a "policy" which in fact doesn't work and nothing this tyrant has done works, nothing.
Congress should and must stand up to this one man show-(off) and Enemy of Democracy (EOD) Obama, and am demanding they do along with millions. Obama is enabling the Bomb, not de-escalating anything, if this idiot pulls off another madcap act in the short term energy outlook as the U.S. Energy Information Administration warned the lifting of Iranian oil sanctions will drop crude prices by $15 dollars per barrel as Iran rushes to flood oil to get any money they can to desparately revenue their nuclear bomb agenda back on track. There will be significant increased volume of Iranian barrels to enter the market and fund their nuclear war plans. It will futher weaken Saudi and Jordan and others resistance to ISIS and Iranian hegemony. Obama is the absolute worst in American history and violating our constitutional democratic processes. Hopefully he will be held accountable.
My God, I cannot believe what we are watching… a lot at the office are really sick of the “do gooders” with their utopian “I demands” and acting like big mouths as if they are smart and everyone else is stupid. A lot of them are just plain strange and actually full of hate and no good intentions in the end. Basically, too many live a world of stacking “values” (it comes from both the left and the right) such as “I do not believe in any wars” or like a lot of Jews in pre-holocaust Europe/Germany were saying “basically humans are good, the German people are civilized” and they place some “value” among a stack with one higher than the other and then confuse walking around with a “value” with some imagined utopia that only lives in their heads.
You can “believe” in “no wars” all you want and think you can live in your backyard painting flower pots all day long, you just might find yourself asked to get on a train for the work farms and “your children don’t belong to you anymore, they now belong to the government” and bombs can and will blow up in your backyard, too. The fact of the matter is, there is **** all the time, you might have to fight or you might find yourself in the crossroads. I guess you can just die.
There are not “good answers”. Obama sure doesn’t have them. So for now, get this madcap off the backs of the American people and let our people free and get back to trying democracy. His stupid “deal” isn’t worth the invisible ink it is written with. Maybe we CAN convince Iran not to start a nuclear war, but Obama isn’t going to help in that regard, he is making things worse. I want Congress to handle this from this point forward, even if they are not the best either. Better than this loser Obama. He has a lot of personal ideations that is goofy and leftwing garbage and false narratives. Just like this war on our police. Sure there are bad police. What are you going to do, that we are not already doing? But they are not a bunch of “white racists” that is total b.s.. Bots are being told that as part of the agenda to nationalize the police so that they can be turned into a political arm of a Chavez of Castro type regimes centrally controlled and used against the people for government totalitarianism. Be careful what you wish for, there is no hope under Obama, just rather odd ball narratives not much removed from cult religions. Sure Bush screwed things up, too, and acted way out of line with his constitutional powers. Obama is worse still, and he is full ideas that are full of phobias and grievance politics and hopeless glass houses which he thinks he is building and wants to cook everyone who doesn't agree with him in the garden hot house.
You can “believe” in “no wars” all you want and think you can live in your backyard painting flower pots all day long, you just might find yourself asked to get on a train for the work farms and “your children don’t belong to you anymore, they now belong to the government” and bombs can and will blow up in your backyard, too. The fact of the matter is, there is **** all the time, you might have to fight or you might find yourself in the crossroads. I guess you can just die.
There are not “good answers”. Obama sure doesn’t have them. So for now, get this madcap off the backs of the American people and let our people free and get back to trying democracy. His stupid “deal” isn’t worth the invisible ink it is written with. Maybe we CAN convince Iran not to start a nuclear war, but Obama isn’t going to help in that regard, he is making things worse. I want Congress to handle this from this point forward, even if they are not the best either. Better than this loser Obama. He has a lot of personal ideations that is goofy and leftwing garbage and false narratives. Just like this war on our police. Sure there are bad police. What are you going to do, that we are not already doing? But they are not a bunch of “white racists” that is total b.s.. Bots are being told that as part of the agenda to nationalize the police so that they can be turned into a political arm of a Chavez of Castro type regimes centrally controlled and used against the people for government totalitarianism. Be careful what you wish for, there is no hope under Obama, just rather odd ball narratives not much removed from cult religions. Sure Bush screwed things up, too, and acted way out of line with his constitutional powers. Obama is worse still, and he is full ideas that are full of phobias and grievance politics and hopeless glass houses which he thinks he is building and wants to cook everyone who doesn't agree with him in the garden hot house.