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Wondering About Faith (Ephesians 2)

A

atpollard

Active Member
Spockrates said:
Yes, I think now I know for certain what you believe. Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions.

:)

Whether what you believe is true, I don't yet know. Please let me explain why. During Peter's first presentation of the gospel, he was asked by his audience what they must do to be saved. His response:

Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."
(Acts 2:38)
​
Please tell me: Since Peter says repentance is required, does this mean we are forgiven and receive the Holy Spirit through both repentance and faith, instead of through faith alone?
Click to expand...
Please define what you think 'repentence' means.
What is Peter asking them to do?

(I think we can agree on what he means by 'be baptized' ... John the Baptist did a pretty good job of illustrating the same message.)
 
Spockrates

Spockrates

Wonderer.
atpollard said:
Please define what you think 'repentence' means.
What is Peter asking them to do?

(I think we can agree on what he means by 'be baptized' ... John the Baptist did a pretty good job of illustrating the same message.)
Click to expand...

knight-front-lady-losing-sword-fight-29739167.jpg


Well, I'm not sure exactly what repentance is. If I had to be brave, take a guess and defend my opinion, I'd say she is much like faith in that she is a state of mind--in this case, one who causes a change of behavior. She inspires me to become a better man. You mentioned John the Baptist, and his words come to mind:

7 John said to the crowds coming out to be baptized by him, “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath?8 Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. ..."
(Luke 3)​

It's likely, then that the word fruit, here symbolizes a change of behavior. Since such is "in keeping with repentance," it's probable--though not certain--such behavior change is caused by repentance. The logical inference is that it might not be repentance, for a cause is not the same as its effect. In that case, Repentance would be my thoughts, not my actions.

But whether my opinion of her is true and her honor is worth defending remains to be seen. Do you think my definition of Repentance is worthy of your defense, too? If not, then please explain why. Perhaps I will then repent of Repentance and put my faith in a more true lady virtue.

(But please don't think I'm too odd. I like to do what Socrates, Paul and even Jesus did. I like to paint pictures with words. They help me put ideas in perspective and make the conversation more interesting to me.)

:)
 
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A

atpollard

Active Member
Here is what the Baptist Faith and Message has to offer as food for thought:


IV. Salvation
Salvation involves the redemption of the whole man, and is offered freely to all who accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour, who by His own blood obtained eternal redemption for the believer. In its broadest sense salvation includes regeneration, justification, sanctification, and glorification. There is no salvation apart from personal faith in Jesus Christ as Lord.

A. Regeneration, or the new birth, is a work of God's grace whereby believers become new creatures in Christ Jesus. It is a change of heart wrought by the Holy Spirit through conviction of sin, to which the sinner responds in repentance toward God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Repentance and faith are inseparable experiences of grace.

Repentance is a genuine turning from sin toward God. Faith is the acceptance of Jesus Christ and commitment of the entire personality to Him as Lord and Saviour.

B. Justification is God's gracious and full acquittal upon principles of His righteousness of all sinners who repent and believe in Christ. Justification brings the believer unto a relationship of peace and favor with God.

C. Sanctification is the experience, beginning in regeneration, by which the believer is set apart to God's purposes, and is enabled to progress toward moral and spiritual maturity through the presence and power of the Holy Spirit dwelling in him. Growth in grace should continue throughout the regenerate person's life.

D. Glorification is the culmination of salvation and is the final blessed and abiding state of the redeemed.

Genesis 3:15; Exodus 3:14-17; 6:2-8; Matthew 1:21; 4:17; 16:21-26; 27:22-28:6; Luke 1:68-69; 2:28-32; John 1:11-14,29; 3:3-21,36; 5:24; 10:9,28-29; 15:1-16; 17:17; Acts 2:21; 4:12; 15:11; 16:30-31; 17:30-31; 20:32; Romans 1:16-18; 2:4; 3:23-25; 4:3ff.; 5:8-10; 6:1-23; 8:1-18,29-39; 10:9-10,13; 13:11-14; 1 Corinthians 1:18,30; 6:19-20; 15:10; 2 Corinthians 5:17-20; Galatians 2:20; 3:13; 5:22-25; 6:15; Ephesians 1:7; 2:8-22; 4:11-16; Philippians 2:12-13; Colossians 1:9-22; 3:1ff.; 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24; 2 Timothy 1:12; Titus 2:11-14; Hebrews 2:1-3; 5:8-9; 9:24-28; 11:1-12:8,14; James 2:14-26; 1 Peter 1:2-23; 1 John 1:6-2:11; Revelation 3:20; 21:1-22:5.

V. God's Purpose of Grace
Election is the gracious purpose of God, according to which He regenerates, justifies, sanctifies, and glorifies sinners. It is consistent with the free agency of man, and comprehends all the means in connection with the end. It is the glorious display of God's sovereign goodness, and is infinitely wise, holy, and unchangeable. It excludes boasting and promotes humility.

All true believers endure to the end. Those whom God has accepted in Christ, and sanctified by His Spirit, will never fall away from the state of grace, but shall persevere to the end. Believers may fall into sin through neglect and temptation, whereby they grieve the Spirit, impair their graces and comforts, and bring reproach on the cause of Christ and temporal judgments on themselves; yet they shall be kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation.

Genesis 12:1-3; Exodus 19:5-8; 1 Samuel 8:4-7,19-22; Isaiah 5:1-7; Jeremiah 31:31ff.; Matthew 16:18-19; 21:28-45; 24:22,31; 25:34; Luke 1:68-79; 2:29-32; 19:41-44; 24:44-48; John 1:12-14; 3:16; 5:24; 6:44-45,65; 10:27-29; 15:16; 17:6,12,17-18; Acts 20:32; Romans 5:9-10; 8:28-39; 10:12-15; 11:5-7,26-36; 1 Corinthians 1:1-2; 15:24-28; Ephesians 1:4-23; 2:1-10; 3:1-11; Colossians 1:12-14; 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14; 2 Timothy 1:12; 2:10,19; Hebrews 11:39–12:2; James 1:12; 1 Peter 1:2-5,13; 2:4-10; 1 John 1:7-9; 2:19; 3:2.
 
Spockrates

Spockrates

Wonderer.
atpollard said:
Here is what the Baptist Faith and Message has to offer as food for thought:


IV. Salvation
Salvation involves the redemption of the whole man, and is offered freely to all who accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour, who by His own blood obtained eternal redemption for the believer. In its broadest sense salvation includes regeneration, justification, sanctification, and glorification. There is no salvation apart from personal faith in Jesus Christ as Lord.

A. Regeneration, or the new birth, is a work of God's grace whereby believers become new creatures in Christ Jesus. It is a change of heart wrought by the Holy Spirit through conviction of sin, to which the sinner responds in repentance toward God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Repentance and faith are inseparable experiences of grace.

Repentance is a genuine turning from sin toward God. Faith is the acceptance of Jesus Christ and commitment of the entire personality to Him as Lord and Saviour.

B. Justification is God's gracious and full acquittal upon principles of His righteousness of all sinners who repent and believe in Christ. Justification brings the believer unto a relationship of peace and favor with God.

C. Sanctification is the experience, beginning in regeneration, by which the believer is set apart to God's purposes, and is enabled to progress toward moral and spiritual maturity through the presence and power of the Holy Spirit dwelling in him. Growth in grace should continue throughout the regenerate person's life.

D. Glorification is the culmination of salvation and is the final blessed and abiding state of the redeemed.

Genesis 3:15; Exodus 3:14-17; 6:2-8; Matthew 1:21; 4:17; 16:21-26; 27:22-28:6; Luke 1:68-69; 2:28-32; John 1:11-14,29; 3:3-21,36; 5:24; 10:9,28-29; 15:1-16; 17:17; Acts 2:21; 4:12; 15:11; 16:30-31; 17:30-31; 20:32; Romans 1:16-18; 2:4; 3:23-25; 4:3ff.; 5:8-10; 6:1-23; 8:1-18,29-39; 10:9-10,13; 13:11-14; 1 Corinthians 1:18,30; 6:19-20; 15:10; 2 Corinthians 5:17-20; Galatians 2:20; 3:13; 5:22-25; 6:15; Ephesians 1:7; 2:8-22; 4:11-16; Philippians 2:12-13; Colossians 1:9-22; 3:1ff.; 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24; 2 Timothy 1:12; Titus 2:11-14; Hebrews 2:1-3; 5:8-9; 9:24-28; 11:1-12:8,14; James 2:14-26; 1 Peter 1:2-23; 1 John 1:6-2:11; Revelation 3:20; 21:1-22:5.

V. God's Purpose of Grace
Election is the gracious purpose of God, according to which He regenerates, justifies, sanctifies, and glorifies sinners. It is consistent with the free agency of man, and comprehends all the means in connection with the end. It is the glorious display of God's sovereign goodness, and is infinitely wise, holy, and unchangeable. It excludes boasting and promotes humility.

All true believers endure to the end. Those whom God has accepted in Christ, and sanctified by His Spirit, will never fall away from the state of grace, but shall persevere to the end. Believers may fall into sin through neglect and temptation, whereby they grieve the Spirit, impair their graces and comforts, and bring reproach on the cause of Christ and temporal judgments on themselves; yet they shall be kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation.

Genesis 12:1-3; Exodus 19:5-8; 1 Samuel 8:4-7,19-22; Isaiah 5:1-7; Jeremiah 31:31ff.; Matthew 16:18-19; 21:28-45; 24:22,31; 25:34; Luke 1:68-79; 2:29-32; 19:41-44; 24:44-48; John 1:12-14; 3:16; 5:24; 6:44-45,65; 10:27-29; 15:16; 17:6,12,17-18; Acts 20:32; Romans 5:9-10; 8:28-39; 10:12-15; 11:5-7,26-36; 1 Corinthians 1:1-2; 15:24-28; Ephesians 1:4-23; 2:1-10; 3:1-11; Colossians 1:12-14; 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14; 2 Timothy 1:12; 2:10,19; Hebrews 11:39–12:2; James 1:12; 1 Peter 1:2-5,13; 2:4-10; 1 John 1:7-9; 2:19; 3:2.
Click to expand...

Yes, but what do you believe now, Atpollard? Are we saved, forgiven and receive the Holy Spirit through faith and repentance, or through faith alone?
 
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Spockrates

Spockrates

Wonderer.
Come now, my friend. We've come too far to run away, now! Be strong and courageous! For God is with us. If God be with us, what lie can stand against us?

Be a man and take a stand! Say what in your heart you know is true. If it turns out to be an imposter, won't we be better off for having considered it and discovered it's true nature? If it turns out to be the truth, won't we be better off still?

We have nothing to lose but our ignorance! But there is much to gain. Whatever is true, pure, right, noble and admirable--we should think deeply about these things. Are you with me?

:)
 
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A

atpollard

Active Member
Spockrates said:
Come now, my friend. We've come too far to run away, now! Be strong and courageous! For God is with us. If God be with us, what lie can stand against us?

Be a man and take a stand! Say what in your heart you know is true. If it turns out to be an imposter, won't we be better off for having considered it and discovered it's true nature? If it turns out to be the truth, won't we be better off still?

We have nothing to lose but our ignorance! But there is much to gain. Whatever is true, pure, right, noble and admirable--we should think deeply about these things. Are you with me?

:)
Click to expand...

I wasn't hiding.
I was trying to give you some room to find YOUR answer to your question. ;)

My answer (for me) is that FAITH is trusting in God to wash me clean and fix what is broken on the inside.
GRACE is the unearned power and love that God showed towards me to both nurture my Faith and effect the complete transformation that was and is my Salvation. God's GRACE drew me to the point of FAITH, my FAITH unlocked the power of God's GRACE.

So what about REPENTANCE?
Repentence is a state of mind ... a mental turning from my old way of thinking and towards God's way of thinking.
Acknowledgement that the way God sees things and God's rules for what is right and wrong are correct, and my previously held way of seeing things and rules for what is right and wrong (which contradicted God's position) were wrong.

I can see no way to achieve Faith (trust in God) from a mental position that believes that my view is right and God's view is wrong. Thus Repentence is a prerequisite to Salvation, not because God will not forgive me unless I repent, but because I will not achieve Faith and I will not ask for forgiveness and I will not see any need for Salvation until I Repent.
The same initial GRACE (unmerited power and love) from the Holy Spirit that sought me out when I had no interest in any of the things of God, is what brings me to the place of both REPENTENCE (to desire a change) and FAITH (belief that God has the power to change me) that allows my heart to cry out to my God to help me (SALVATION).

At the moment of Salvation, I am forever changed. Like Birth, I have passed from death to life. I have begun a life long process of SANCTIFICATION. From this point forward, God will progressively reveal more within me that is contrary to God's law and character. In response to God's love, I will want to REPENT of each newly discovered anti-God thought, action or habit. God's GRACE will give me the FAITH to trust in God to empower a change and the power of God's GRACE will effect the change (through the Holy Spirit living within me).

Faith, Grace, Love, Power, Repentence form a network that supports the whole unfolding miracle of SALVATION - SANCTIFICATION - GLORIFICATION that begins when GRACE first knocks at my door seeking my affection and ends when GRACE embraces me at the doors of Heaven ... perfected just as Christ is perfect.

I believe that it all begins with GRACE ... so I am a Calvinist.
 
Spockrates

Spockrates

Wonderer.
atpollard said:
I wasn't hiding.
I was trying to give you some room to find YOUR answer to your question. ;)

My answer (for me) is that FAITH is trusting in God to wash me clean and fix what is broken on the inside.
GRACE is the unearned power and love that God showed towards me to both nurture my Faith and effect the complete transformation that was and is my Salvation. God's GRACE drew me to the point of FAITH, my FAITH unlocked the power of God's GRACE.

So what about REPENTANCE?
Repentence is a state of mind ... a mental turning from my old way of thinking and towards God's way of thinking.
Acknowledgement that the way God sees things and God's rules for what is right and wrong are correct, and my previously held way of seeing things and rules for what is right and wrong (which contradicted God's position) were wrong.

I can see no way to achieve Faith (trust in God) from a mental position that believes that my view is right and God's view is wrong. Thus Repentence is a prerequisite to Salvation, not because God will not forgive me unless I repent, but because I will not achieve Faith and I will not ask for forgiveness and I will not see any need for Salvation until I Repent.
The same initial GRACE (unmerited power and love) from the Holy Spirit that sought me out when I had no interest in any of the things of God, is what brings me to the place of both REPENTENCE (to desire a change) and FAITH (belief that God has the power to change me) that allows my heart to cry out to my God to help me (SALVATION).

At the moment of Salvation, I am forever changed. Like Birth, I have passed from death to life. I have begun a life long process of SANCTIFICATION. From this point forward, God will progressively reveal more within me that is contrary to God's law and character. In response to God's love, I will want to REPENT of each newly discovered anti-God thought, action or habit. God's GRACE will give me the FAITH to trust in God to empower a change and the power of God's GRACE will effect the change (through the Holy Spirit living within me).

Faith, Grace, Love, Power, Repentence form a network that supports the whole unfolding miracle of SALVATION - SANCTIFICATION - GLORIFICATION that begins when GRACE first knocks at my door seeking my affection and ends when GRACE embraces me at the doors of Heaven ... perfected just as Christ is perfect.

I believe that it all begins with GRACE ... so I am a Calvinist.
Click to expand...

Yes, I have to agree. Since repentance is a prerequisite for faith, it is also a prerequisite for salvation. Hence we are saved not by faith alone, but by faith and repentance.

What then should we make of Calvin's statement?

We are justified by faith alone, but the faith that justifies us is not alone.
​
I think perhaps we should follow Socrates' advice, when he said:

A wise man is not likely to talk nonsense! So let us try to understand him.
(Theaetetus)​

So how should we understand the wise Calvin? Was he saying repentance is not a cause of salvation? Or was he saying repentance is the same thing as faith? Or was he saying justification is not enough to save us, because we also need repentance? Or was he saying something else? Since Calvin is not here to ask, we will have to try our best to understand him without his help. If you had to guess, what would you say he meant?
 
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A

atpollard

Active Member
Spockrates said:
Yes, I have to agree. Since repentance is a prerequisite for faith, it is also a prerequisite for salvation. Hence we are saved not by faith alone, but by faith and repentance.

What then should we make of Calvin's statement?

We are justified by faith alone, but the faith that justifies us is not alone.
​
I think perhaps we should follow Socrates' advice, when he said:

A wise man is not likely to talk nonsense! So let us try to understand him.
(Theaetetus)​

So how should we understand the wise Calvin? Was he saying repentance is not a cause of salvation? Or was he saying repentance is the same thing as faith? Or was he saying justification is not enough to save us, because we also need repentance? Or was he saying something else? Since Calvin is not here to ask, we will have to try our best to understand him without his help. If you had to guess, what would you say he meant?
Click to expand...
The Catholic Confession illustrates this issue perfectly.
A priest instructs you to confess your sin, receive forgiveness and perform a sincere act of contrition.

Let's say, for argument, that I say something hateful to someone and ask the Priest (or God directly) to forgive me.
Clearly, I should apologize to the person I harmed ... no one would argue that was a bad idea.
The question is would I be forgiven of my sin when I asked for God's forgiveness?
Would I not be forgiven until I had apologized to the person?

Calvin is saying that my Repentence to God illustrates my FAITH that God can and will forgive me, and by his Grace I am forgiven.

The alternative is that my Faith alone is insufficient and I must DO something in addition to Faith in order to be forgiven.

SALVATION is the same issue, except the sin to be forgiven is against God rather than some other person.
So will God forgive me when I ask him, or is that not enough ... does God REQUIRE some additional action on my part?

Calvin's specific statement is intended to communicate that God can and will forgive me just for the asking (based on my FAITH), but if my FAITH is real enough to actually ask God to forgive me, then I should want to do more ... like be Baptized, Forgive others, Love my brothers/sisters, etc.

Thus we are Justified (made right before God) by Faith alone (trust and ask with no additional work on our part), but the Faith (Trust in God) that Justifies us (makes us right before God) is not alone (will lead us to want to voluntarily do good works that the Lord commands).
 
Spockrates

Spockrates

Wonderer.
atpollard said:
The Catholic Confession illustrates this issue perfectly.
A priest instructs you to confess your sin, receive forgiveness and perform a sincere act of contrition.

Let's say, for argument, that I say something hateful to someone and ask the Priest (or God directly) to forgive me.
Clearly, I should apologize to the person I harmed ... no one would argue that was a bad idea.
The question is would I be forgiven of my sin when I asked for God's forgiveness?
Would I not be forgiven until I had apologized to the person?

Calvin is saying that my Repentence to God illustrates my FAITH that God can and will forgive me, and by his Grace I am forgiven.

The alternative is that my Faith alone is insufficient and I must DO something in addition to Faith in order to be forgiven.

SALVATION is the same issue, except the sin to be forgiven is against God rather than some other person.
So will God forgive me when I ask him, or is that not enough ... does God REQUIRE some additional action on my part?

Calvin's specific statement is intended to communicate that God can and will forgive me just for the asking (based on my FAITH), but if my FAITH is real enough to actually ask God to forgive me, then I should want to do more ... like be Baptized, Forgive others, Love my brothers/sisters, etc.

Thus we are Justified (made right before God) by Faith alone (trust and ask with no additional work on our part), but the Faith (Trust in God) that Justifies us (makes us right before God) is not alone (will lead us to want to voluntarily do good works that the Lord commands).
Click to expand...

Excellent! So then, considering my question, "How should we understand the wise Calvin? Was he saying:
1. repentance is not a cause of salvation?
2. repentance is the same thing as faith?
3. justification is not enough to save us, because we also need to repent?
4. something else?"​

Your answer is now (1). Repentance, which we earlier thought is a prerequisite of faith, now turns out to actually not be such a prerequisite, according to John Calvin. Correct? Or am I misunderstanding?
 
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A

atpollard

Active Member
Spockrates said:
Excellent! So then, considering my question, "How should we understand the wise Calvin? Was he saying:
1. repentance is not a cause of salvation?
2. repentance is the same thing as faith?
3. justification is not enough to save us, because we also need repentance?
4. something else?"​

Your answer is now (1). Repentance, which we earlier thought is a prerequisite of faith, now turns out to actually not be such a prerequisite, according to John Calvin. Correct? Or am I misunderstanding?
Click to expand...
Repentence is, generally, required for salvation, but John Calvin was not addressing the issue of Repentence one way or another in that quote ... he was mostly focused on the question of am I saved because I do good things or do I do good things because I have been saved? John says Salvation stands on faith (without works).

As a side note, Abraham believed and it was credited to him as righteousness.
Also, the paralyzed man was lowered through the roof and Jesus forgave his sins based upon his friends faith.
So God can do as he pleases.

From Abraham and the Paralytic, it seems that perhaps God could theoretically offer Salvation without Repentence if he wanted to, but, in general, the idea that God would forgive someone who does not want to be forgiven (which is what Salvation without Repentence implies) is an odd concept.
 
Spockrates

Spockrates

Wonderer.
atpollard said:
Repentence is, generally, required for salvation, but John Calvin was not addressing the issue of Repentence one way or another in that quote ...
Click to expand...

I suppose we might say the same of Paul's quote:

By grace you are saved through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it's the gift of God--not by works, so that no one can boast.​

When asked why he does not mention faith, which is generally required, we might answer that Paul was not addressing the issue of repentance one way or the other.

he was mostly focused on the question of am I saved because I do good things or do I do good things because I have been saved? John says Salvation stands on faith (without works).
Click to expand...

So let's see to what conclusion these premises logically lead:

1. Salvation stands on faith
2. Salvation does not stand on works
3. Repentance is generally required

Therefore

Repentance is not a work
​
I suppose, then my earlier guess that repentance is thought and not behavior might be close to the truth? Repentance might then be a change of mind that causes a change of behavior. But if it is thought and not word or deed, it is not a work. So it can be a requirement for salvation. True?

As a side note, Abraham believed and it was credited to him as righteousness.
Also, the paralyzed man was lowered through the roof and Jesus forgave his sins based upon his friends faith.
So God can do as he pleases.

From Abraham and the Paralytic, it seems that perhaps God could theoretically offer Salvation without Repentence if he wanted to, but, in general, the idea that God would forgive someone who does not want to be forgiven (which is what Salvation without Repentence implies) is an odd concept.
Click to expand...

But if repentance truly is only a change of mind, then how do you or I know Abraham and the paralytic did not change their minds? Since we cannot read their minds, they may very well have repented!

But then, are we not talking apples and oranges? Was the paralytic forgiven eternally or merely temporally? It's one thing to be forgiven for one sin, but an entirely different thing to be forgiven for all one's sins.

Consider Jesus' prayer on the cross: "Father, forgive them. For they know not what they do." Were his executioners each given eternal life, despite their lack of faith? Or were they merely spared the consequences for just the one sin and still not yet saved?

* * *

My Question Remains:

But all this aside, I'm still unsure about something. You say Calvin is right that we are saved by faith alone. Yet you also say repentance is generally required to be saved. So how can it be faith alone that saves when repentance is also required?
 
psychoslice

psychoslice

Veteran Member
Spockrates said:
Hi, Psychoslice. Why is it that I can't have one without the other?
Click to expand...
Because if you are under grace, then you are only under grace as long as you do Gods bidding, when you go against his bidding you are no longer under grace, the thing is this grace idea isn't a cheap why to heaven or Gods favour which many treat it as.
 
K

katiemygirl

CHRISTIAN
atpollard said:
Repentance appears to precede both thought and action ...
... a prerequisite for 'faith'?
(I think so.)
YMMV
Click to expand...
What is YMMV?

You are saying that because the word repentance precedes the word faith, then the action of repentance must also come before faith.

In that case, I have a question. What produces repentance? I know that the Holy Spirit draws us to Him, and He convicts us. I think we would agree that the Holy Spirit moves us toward repentance but that is not what I am asking. Can you please provide Scriptures which show what produces repentance?
 
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K

katiemygirl

CHRISTIAN
Spockrates said:
Yes, I think now I know for certain what you believe. Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions.

:)

Whether what you believe is true, I don't yet know. Please let me explain why. During Peter's first presentation of the gospel, he was asked by his audience what they must do to be saved. His response:

Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."
(Acts 2:38)
​
Please tell me: Since Peter says repentance is required, does this mean we are forgiven and receive the Holy Spirit through both repentance and faith, instead of through faith alone?
Click to expand...
Excellent question! I look forward to reading atpollard's answer.

Now I would ask you this. You said, "Since Peter says repentance is required, I assume you would also say baptism is required?

Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."
(Acts 2:38)

PS Interesting thread.
PPS Everytime I see your user name, I am reminded of one of my all time favorite movies, "Bill and Ted's Most Excellent Adventure." Bill & Ted meet some characters from history, and one of them is Socrates. They refer to him as SO- CRATS. Everytime I think of it, I laugh out loud.
 
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