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Is the holy spirit, God, or something else?

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
I personally believe that the Holy Spirit is the power of God and not a person. If it was a person, then he would be Jesus's father. LIke the sun's rays, the Holy Spirit comes from God. It is His power, His word.

yes, agreed
 

katiemygirl

CHRISTIAN
The holy spirit is God's active force.It is not God.
Where in the Scriptures is the Holy Spirit called an "active force?" He is not! EVER!

Like it or not, my JW friend, the Scriptures do call the Holy Spirit GOD.

The fact that the Holy Spirit is God is clearly seen in many Scriptures, including Acts 5:3-4. In this verse Peter confronts Ananias as to why he lied to the Holy Spirit and tells him that he had “not lied to men but to God.” It is a clear declaration that lying to the Holy Spirit is lying to God.

Do you think Peter thought the Holy Spirit was an "active force?" It sure doesn't look that way to me.

The Holy Spirit is a divine PERSON. He possesses a mind, emotions, and a will. The Holy Spirit thinks and knows (1 Corinthians 2:10). The Holy Spirit can be grieved (Ephesians 4:30). The Spirit intercedes for us (Romans 8:26-27). He makes decisions according to His will (1 Corinthians 12:7-11).

The Holy Spirit is God, just as the Son and the Father are God!
 

katiemygirl

CHRISTIAN
If the disciples put faith in Jesus, and Jesus and the Holy Spirit are God, why had the disciples never even heard of the Holy Spirit; and, why did Paul asked them if the disciples were GIVEN Holy Spirit? What would happen when disciples received the Holy Spirit?

Acts 19:1-2Contemporary English Version (CEV)
Paul in Ephesus
19 While Apollos was in Corinth, Paul traveled across the hill country to Ephesus, where he met some of the Lord’s followers. 2 He asked them, “When you put your faith in Jesus, were you given the Holy Spirit?”
“No!” they answered. “We have never even heard of the Holy Spirit.”
These disciples, in Acts 19:1-2, had been instructed by Apollos. If you remember, Apollos had been instructed by Priscilla and Aquila (Acts 18:26) who had to be taught "a better way" by Paul (Acts 18:24-28).

Neither Apollos, Priscilla or Aquila understood Christian baptism, which was different than John's baptism. These three knew only John's baptism.

Here is what Apollos, Priscilla and Aquila did not know.

The Holy Spirit was promised (Acts 2:38) to disciples who followed the command to repent and be baptized. This command with a promise was given by Peter on the day of Pentecost.

Christian baptism comes with the gift of the Holy Spirit. The gift of the Holy Spirit is the indwelling Holy Spirit.

Paul laid his hands on the Ephesian disciples in order to convey spiritual gifts, NOT to give the indwelling Holy Spirit. The indwelling Holy Spirit is given to ALL who repent and are baptized.

Notice that spiritual gifts were received after the disciples were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. It was only after the laying on of Paul's hands that the disciples spoke in tongues and prophesied.

IMHO, Jews, prior to Pentecost didn't know much, if anything, about the Holy Spirit. They did not understand the person and work of the Holy Spirit the way we do. The emphasis in the OT is on the Father, rather than on the Son or Holy Spirit. I'm not saying the Holy Spirit isn't present in the OT. He is. I believe there are some 100 references to Him. We have a clearer picture of just who the Holy Spirit is in the NT, and what His role is.

So to answer your question, the Ephesian disciples could only put their faith in who they knew about at that time, and He would be Jesus. Notice how quickly they put their faith in the Holy Spirit as well, once they learned about Him.
 
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moorea944

Well-Known Member
Where in the Scriptures is the Holy Spirit called an "active force?" He is not! EVER!

Like it or not, my JW friend, the Scriptures do call the Holy Spirit GOD.

The fact that the Holy Spirit is God is clearly seen in many Scriptures, including Acts 5:3-4. In this verse Peter confronts Ananias as to why he lied to the Holy Spirit and tells him that he had “not lied to men but to God.” It is a clear declaration that lying to the Holy Spirit is lying to God.

Do you think Peter thought the Holy Spirit was an "active force?" It sure doesn't look that way to me.

The Holy Spirit is a divine PERSON. He possesses a mind, emotions, and a will. The Holy Spirit thinks and knows (1 Corinthians 2:10). The Holy Spirit can be grieved (Ephesians 4:30). The Spirit intercedes for us (Romans 8:26-27). He makes decisions according to His will (1 Corinthians 12:7-11).

The Holy Spirit is God, just as the Son and the Father are God!
So you dont think that "spirit" is the Word of God??? Scripture is written in so many different ways. It can be literal, figuritive, metaphor, simile, something can be personfied too. Trees can talk, wisdom can be spoken as a woman, etc, etc. But know where is God's Spirit an actual separate person. The Holy Spirit is not a person, it is part of God. God's Word, His power, His voice, etc. Why doesnt the bible tell us that the Holy Spirit Jesus's father then? So a person actually went into Mary? Do you really want to believe in something like this? I almost feel embarrassed for you....
 

katiemygirl

CHRISTIAN
So you dont think that "spirit" is the Word of God???
If you are interested in what I think, then read my posts. I stated my thoughts and beliefs clearly.

The Holy Spirit is not a person, it is part of God. God's Word, His power, His voice, etc.
I'm sure you would agree that the Holy Spirit is the author of the Bible. With that said, the Holy Spirit refers to Himself as as person, assigning the pronouns HE and HIM, and never IT throughout the Bible. I choose to refer to the Holy Spirit the same way He refers to Himself. He NEVER calls Himself an "active force." Why would you? Do you know more than GOD does?

Why doesnt the bible tell us that the Holy Spirit Jesus's father then? So a person actually went into Mary? Do you really want to believe in something like this? I almost feel embarrassed for you....
I think I see why you are having a problem accepting the Holy Spirit as having a personality. It's the word "person" that bothers you. I would agree with you that "person" is probably not the best term to use when speaking of the Holy Spirit or the Father, for that matter. IMHO, it is very difficult to explain the Holy Spirit, or the relationship between Father, Son and Holy Spirit in human terms. Our capacity to understand GOD (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) is very limited. But you cannot deny the PERSONALITY of the Holy Spirit, any more than you can deny the personalities of the Father and Son. It comes through loud and clear throughout the Bible, especially in the NT where He plays a more prominent role. He is much more than an "active force." Active forces such as electricity are not grieved. You cannot lie to electricity. You cannot blaspheme against electricity. Electricity cannot guide or comfort you.

No, I don't believe a person went into Mary. It sounds like you are thinking in sexual terms, which I find embarrassing. If GOD could create the universe from NOTHING, and He could create Adam from dust, I'm sure that He could cause Mary to conceive without ever having sex. He is GOD. GOD can do anything He chooses to do.
 

Mohammad Nur Syamsu

Well-Known Member
The Greek word translated “spirit” is pneu′ma, which also conveys the idea of an invisible power. According to Vine’s Expository Dictionary ofNew Testament Words, the word pneu′ma “primarily denotes the wind . . . also breath; then, especially the spirit, which, like the wind, is invisible, immaterial and powerful.”

Clearly, then, the holy spirit is not a person.*

You can see in the various traditional definitions of free will that the spirit serves the function of doing the actual job of making the decision turn out the way it does.

It is the only way the concept of free will can function, that the existence of what chooses is a matter of opinion, faith. The spirit chooses, and one can only reach the conclusion whether it exists or not by choosing the answer, forming an opinion.

This is why the general trend amongst atheists throughout history is to deny free will, or neglect it, and emphasize how human behaviour is forced by biology, or environment. Atheists don't accept the existence of anything on a subjective basis, so they are only left with things they can measure. But these measurable things can only make behaviour turn out in accordance with what these things in fact consist of, they do not provide any room for freedom.
 
You can see in the various traditional definitions of free will that the spirit serves the function of doing the actual job of making the decision turn out the way it does.

It is the only way the concept of free will can function, that the existence of what chooses is a matter of opinion, faith. The spirit chooses, and one can only reach the conclusion whether it exists or not by choosing the answer, forming an opinion.

This is why the general trend amongst atheists throughout history is to deny free will, or neglect it, and emphasize how human behaviour is forced by biology, or environment. Atheists don't accept the existence of anything on a subjective basis, so they are only left with things they can measure. But these measurable things can only make behaviour turn out in accordance with what these things in fact consist of, they do not provide any room for freedom.

What spirit do you speak of?
 

Mohammad Nur Syamsu

Well-Known Member
So you speak of the spirit within us, not the holy spirit?

I more think of a general spiritual domain, to which all terms apply which make a decision turn out the way it does. The lord God is in the spiritual domain. People have a human spirit, and this refers to who they are as being the onwer of their decisions now. The soul more refers to the spirit in which all decisions somebody makes, past, present and future.
 
I more think of a general spiritual domain, to which all terms apply which make a decision turn out the way it does. The lord God is in the spiritual domain. People have a human spirit, and this refers to who they are as being the onwer of their decisions now. The soul more refers to the spirit in which all decisions somebody makes, past, present and future.
Oh. According to the holy scriptures, of the God of Israel,It points out that the holy spirit is God's active force.This is power that God sends out to fulfill his will.This is the same force that was used when creating the universe, and to inspire the writings of the holy scriptures by man.Yes, we are a living spirit.A force.We are to referred to as living souls in the book of Genesis.When we die ,we are dead souls.Knowing nothing.The decisions we make are all based on what we want.We have our conscience to help us.It is our filter.When one learns the ways of God, according to His will,by way of the holy spirit,then it is up to us to continue serving Him,according to His laws.
 

Mohammad Nur Syamsu

Well-Known Member
Oh. According to the holy scriptures, of the God of Israel,It points out that the holy spirit is God's active force.This is power that God sends out to fulfill his will.This is the same force that was used when creating the universe, and to inspire the writings of the holy scriptures by man.Yes, we are a living spirit.A force.We are to referred to as living souls in the book of Genesis.When we die ,we are dead souls.Knowing nothing.The decisions we make are all based on what we want.We have our conscience to help us.It is our filter.When one learns the ways of God, according to His will,by way of the holy spirit,then it is up to us to continue serving Him,according to His laws.

And at the final judgement your soul is judged by God. The soul, who you are as being the owner of all decisions througout your life. The logic all works out consistently well.
 
And at the final judgement your soul is judged by God. The soul, who you are as being the owner of all decisions througout your life. The logic all works out consistently well.

The final judgment is at the end of the 1,000 year reign of peace,according to holy scripture.Those who do not follow the commandments of God,and are on earth when the great day of God the Almighty comes,will all be destroyed on this day.If one is killed on this day,that is your final judgment.Eternal damnation.Those who followed God and were spared,will walk into the new system of things.This new era will be a reign of peace that last 1,000 years.This is when all will be resurrected back to life.Those who died before.The ones who made it through the great day of God the almighty will greet those who are being brought back to life.Once these are brought back, a new way of life shall be introduced, and the earth shall be restored, and filled with the knowledge of God.Those who do not wish to conform to this new way of life will be destroyed at the end of this 1,000 year reign of peace and teaching.This is when satan the devil will be released one last time and deceive those who did not want to conform to Gods new earth.This is the second death.Satan,and those who decided to follow him, will be destroyed.Eternal damnation and separation from God.According to the holy scriptures, in the book of Revelation.
 

atpollard

Active Member
Do you have any scriptures that support your view?
Here are mine:

God the Holy Spirit
The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God, fully divine. He inspired holy men of old to write the Scriptures. Through illumination He enables men to understand truth. He exalts Christ. He convicts men of sin, of righteousness, and of judgment. He calls men to the Saviour, and effects regeneration. At the moment of regeneration He baptizes every believer into the Body of Christ. He cultivates Christian character, comforts believers, and bestows the spiritual gifts by which they serve God through His church. He seals the believer unto the day of final redemption. His presence in the Christian is the guarantee that God will bring the believer into the fullness of the stature of Christ. He enlightens and empowers the believer and the church in worship, evangelism, and service.

Genesis 1:2; Judges 14:6; Job 26:13; Psalms 51:11; 139:7ff.; Isaiah 61:1-3; Joel 2:28-32; Matthew 1:18; 3:16; 4:1; 12:28-32; 28:19; Mark 1:10,12; Luke 1:35; 4:1,18-19; 11:13; 12:12; 24:49; John 4:24; 14:16-17,26; 15:26; 16:7-14; Acts 1:8; 2:1-4,38; 4:31; 5:3; 6:3; 7:55; 8:17,39; 10:44; 13:2; 15:28; 16:6; 19:1-6; Romans 8:9-11,14-16,26-27; 1 Corinthians 2:10-14; 3:16; 12:3-11,13; Galatians 4:6; Ephesians 1:13-14; 4:30; 5:18; 1 Thessalonians 5:19; 1 Timothy 3:16;4:1; 2 Timothy 1:14; 3:16; Hebrews 9:8,14; 2 Peter 1:21; 1 John 4:13; 5:6-7; Revelation 1:10; 22:17.

(from the 2000 Baptist Faith and Message)
 

atpollard

Active Member
A very compelling argument against the holy spirit being a person is found in the account about Stephen.

Acts 7:54 Well, at hearing these things, they were infuriated* in their hearts and began to grind their teeth at him. 55 But he, being full of holy spirit, gazed into heaven and caught sight of God’s glory and of Jesus standing at God’s right hand,+56 and he said: “Look! I see the heavens opened up and the Son of man+ standing at God’s right hand.”+

Stephen is given a vision of heaven, and looking in he see's God and Jesus at his right hand... but no holy spirit. If the holy spirit is a person, and if he is really the 3rd person of the trinity, then surely Stephen would have seen 3 individuals in heaven. But no, he sees only Jesus and Jehovah.
The Holy Spirit was INSIDE Stephen.
When Jesus work on Earth was finished, Jesus returned to the Father in Heaven.
When the work of the Holy Spirit on Earth is finished (with the final judgement and eternal dwelling of God with men), then the Holy spirit will return to the Father in Heaven.
His work is not finished yet, so he does not yet rest in Heaven.
 

moorea944

Well-Known Member
One of the many verses that tells us about the Holy Spirit or the Spirit of God is found in Luke 1. "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee:" We see hear, once again, the Holy Spirit is God's power. Very easy to understand. It is not a person, it is part of God. It is His power.
 

Mohammad Nur Syamsu

Well-Known Member
One of the many verses that tells us about the Holy Spirit or the Spirit of God is found in Luke 1. "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee:" We see hear, once again, the Holy Spirit is God's power. Very easy to understand. It is not a person, it is part of God. It is His power.

We require a word to signify what it is that makes a decision turn out the way it does. That word has been spirit, and should remanin spirit.
 

katiemygirl

CHRISTIAN
The Holy Spirit was INSIDE Stephen.
When Jesus work on Earth was finished, Jesus returned to the Father in Heaven.
When the work of the Holy Spirit on Earth is finished (with the final judgement and eternal dwelling of God with men), then the Holy spirit will return to the Father in Heaven.
His work is not finished yet, so he does not yet rest in Heaven.
Stephen said, "Lord Jesus receive MY spirit. He was speaking of his own spirit, not the Holy Spirit.
 
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