Worship in spirit and in truth...

k4c · Mar 27, 2015

Worship in spirit and in truth means worship starts in the heart first and it most be according to truth. The foundation of true worship is obedience so obedience must first start within the heart.

Romans 6:17-18 But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

In the same way that sin starts within the heart first so does worship and obedience to God. Adultery and murder is first formed in the heart before it changes the outward behavior. In the same way worship and obedience does. Worship and obedience is first formed in the heart before it changes the outward behavior. The seventh day is first holy in the heart before it changes the outward behavior. Not committing the act of murder does not mean you have not committed in your heart. Not sleeping around does not mean you have not committed adultery in your heart. Taking the seventh day off from work does not mean the day is holy to you. Taking the day off from work is not what makes the seventh day holy, the seventh day is holy so we take the day off to honor the fact that it is holy. Anyone can have the seventh day off from work but that does not mean it's holy to them. People can go to church on the seventh day and still have no clue as to why they do or even care why they do. The seventh day is first holy in the heart of the believer who loves and worships God and that changes their outward behavior. Human life and the sanctity of intimate relations must first be holy in the heart before it changes the outward behavior.

Proverbs 4:23 Keep your heart with all diligence, for out of it spring the issues of life.

Windwalker · Mar 27, 2015

"One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God." ~ Ro. 14:5-6

To worship in truth is to worship in sincerity, not doctrinal correctness.

k4c · Mar 27, 2015

Windwalker said:
"One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God." ~ Ro. 14:5-6

To worship in truth is to worship in sincerity, not doctrinal correctness.

Do you really believe Paul was equating the seventh day Sabbath with the opinions of weak believers? No way! The discussion was over things that are not actually commanded by God such as when to fast or eating meat vs not eating meat. The seventh day Sabbath is not even mentioned in the verses.

Windwalker · Mar 27, 2015

k4c said:
Do you really believe Paul was equating the seventh day Sabbath with the opinions of weak believers? No way! The discussion was over things that are not actually commanded by God such as when to fast or eating meat vs not eating meat. The seventh day Sabbath is not even mentioned in the verses.

That whole passage seems to escape you. It's not about "weak" believers, it's about both weak, immature believers, and mature believers. It's about the fact that it does not matter if you eat meat or not, if you observe this holy day or not (7th day included). It's about how you observe what you consider sacred. Is it sincere, in accord with faith, or not? You could have zero days of observance, and if that was true to you and you did that before God, it is of equal value as one who holds sacred days and observes them.

I know that's hard for those who place their religious status on observance of days to follow, but that was his point! Again, to quote Paul regarding the observance of days, "One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike." It does not matter. God only cares about your heart in how you treat them one way or the other. God could care a less about the day of the week.

k4c · Mar 28, 2015

The seventh day Sabbath is part of creation. God is the one who created it, God is the one who blessed it and God is the one who made it holy, not man. Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath. The seventh day Sabbath will continue to be honored in the millennium. I'm not a weak believer, I know this to be a fact from my study of the Scriptures. Now lets say a weak believer comes into my Sabbath fellowship. They believe we should keep Ash Wednesday and abstain from eating meant on Fridays. They believe they should give up something for the 40 days of lent. They believe they should fast twice a week and that eating meat and drinking wine is a sin. I, as a mature believer, am not to judge or argue with this weak brother over these matters. Let them come into the fellowship as they are, believing these things, because they are still immature and weak in the faith. Over time they will grow and learn the truth. That's what the whole discussion is in Romans 14.

Listen, you are to welcome the weak in the faith into your fellowship. Don't argue over their opinions.They believe all these things that don't line up with God's words but don't judge them or argue with them because remember, they are weak in the faith.

Romans 14:1-6 Welcome those who are weak in faith, but not for the purpose of quarreling over opinions. (Here are what those who are weak in the faith are saying) Some believe in eating anything, while the weak eat only vegetables. Those who eat must not despise those who abstain, and those who abstain must not pass judgment on those who eat; for God has welcomed them. Who are you to pass judgment on servants of another? It is before their own lord that they stand or fall. And they will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make them stand. Some judge one day to be better than another, while others judge all days to be alike. Let all be fully convinced in their own minds. Those who observe the day, observe it in honor of the Lord. Also those who eat, eat in honor of the Lord, since they give thanks to God; while those who abstain, abstain in honor of the Lord and give thanks to God.

God will strengthen those who are weak in the faith as times goes on.

Windwalker · Mar 28, 2015

k4c said:
Let them come into the fellowship as they are, believing these things, because they are still immature and weak in the faith. Over time they will grow and learn the truth. That's what the whole discussion is in Romans 14.

That right there which I bolded in what you said above is not in Romans 14 and in fact is completely contrary to what it is saying. In time they will learn the truth as you hold it to be?? It doesn't say that. Do you not see that that type of attitude is exactly what causes the quarrels that Paul is trying to get you and others to see needs to be gotten rid of? Why can't the person who has a different point of view on the eating or abstaining of meat, or the observance or non-observance of days consider that "Over time you will grow to learn the truth", and see things their way, stop to consider that their beliefs are not what is important in faith?

Each side needs to look at it from the opposite point of view. Each of you therefore are standing in opposition to each other saying "I'm right because the Bible says this over here!", and the other says, "No, I'm right because scripture clearly says the right day of the week for church is Saturday!". That is exactly why Paul wrote Romans 14. To get each side to quite such trivial, unimportant quibbling. Both sides are missing the point that it is not the day, it is not ritual, it is not the form, it is not the observance itself that God cares about.

What matters is the sincerity of the heart in observing whatever to them they believe is meaningful to their own faith. That's a tough pill to swallow and hard to comprehend to those who look to being "correct" in beliefs and practices to hear someone say that whole approach doesn't matter. It forces them to look within at the heart, at the Spirit of Truth, to see that it is not the beliefs that unite one with God, but the desire of the soul to serve God itself. Each can hold opposite beliefs, for their whole lives, and each can be seen equally as in the Truth before God because God doesn't judge on the observance of days. "I desire mercy, not sacrifice", is an example of how the religious practice itself is not the point of faith.

Paul provokes the mature person in faith to understand this and not quibble with his brother saying, "When you grow up then you'll see I'm right, you'll learn the truth then, you'll see". And he provokes the young in faith to not place his beliefs as the thing that is important. If you believe you can eat meat, than eat meat but do it unto the Lord. And they can do it their whole lives if they want.

k4c said:
Listen, you are to welcome the weak in the faith into your fellowship. Don't argue over their opinions.They believe all these things that don't line up with God's words but don't judge them or argue with them because remember, they are weak in the faith.

That's not in there. You're judging them as weak because they have a different opinion than you.

k4c · Mar 28, 2015

Windwalker said:
That right there which I bolded in what you said above is not in Romans 14 and in fact is completely contrary to what it is saying. In time they will learn the truth as you hold it to be?? It doesn't say that. Do you not see that that type of attitude is exactly what causes the quarrels that Paul is trying to get you and others to see needs to be gotten rid of? Why can't the person who has a different point of view on the eating or abstaining of meat, or the observance or non-observance of days consider that "Over time you will grow to learn the truth", and see things their way, stop to consider that their beliefs are not what is important in faith?

Each side needs to look at it from the opposite point of view. Each of you therefore are standing in opposition to each other saying "I'm right because the Bible says this over here!", and the other says, "No, I'm right because scripture clearly says the right day of the week for church is Saturday!". That is exactly why Paul wrote Romans 14. To get each side to quite such trivial, unimportant quibbling. Both sides are missing the point that it is not the day, it is not ritual, it is not the form, it is not the observance itself that God cares about.

What matters is the sincerity of the heart in observing whatever to them they believe is meaningful to their own faith. That's a tough pill to swallow and hard to comprehend to those who look to being "correct" in beliefs and practices to hear someone say that whole approach doesn't matter. It forces them to look within at the heart, at the Spirit of Truth, to see that it is not the beliefs that unite one with God, but the desire of the soul to serve God itself. Each can hold opposite beliefs, for their whole lives, and each can be seen equally as in the Truth before God because God doesn't judge on the observance of days. "I desire mercy, not sacrifice", is an example of how the religious practice itself is not the point of faith.

Paul provokes the mature person in faith to understand this and not quibble with his brother saying, "When you grow up then you'll see I'm right, you'll learn the truth then, you'll see". And he provokes the young in faith to not place his beliefs as the thing that is important. If you believe you can eat meat, than eat meat but do it unto the Lord. And they can do it their whole lives if they want.

That's not in there. You're judging them as weak because they have a different opinion than you.

Again, this whole discussion is not about a direct commandment of God, but rather, the opinions of man and what you as a weak believer feel is wrong or right. No opinion of man or no feelings of a weak believer should divide us but I can surly say that a commandment of God most certainly can and will. If a male couple comes into your church saying they want to be married are you going to say praise God? None of Romans 14 is dealing with a direct commandment of God.

Windwalker · Mar 28, 2015

k4c said:
Again, this whole discussion is not about a direct commandment of God, but rather, the opinions of man and what you as a weak believer feel is wrong or right. No opinion of man or no feelings of a weak believer should divide us but I can surly say that a commandment of God most certainly can and will. If a male couple comes into your church saying they want to be married are you going to say praise God? None of Romans 14 is dealing with a direct commandment of God.

It is a matter of opinion that is a direct commandment of God. Each understands what God wants of them to be differently. Including you. You somehow are excluding yourself from this, whereas in reality the entire passage is to those who think they are following God's commandment while offending their brother by assuming they are not. As I said, it's a tough pill to swallow for those who think they are in the right and judges themselves and others from that perspective. Paul is trying to get you to see past yourself and your beliefs to see they are in fact irrelevant to God. He's trying to get you to see it from God's perspective. God judges by the heart of the believer, not by their observances. And so should you.

k4c · Mar 28, 2015

Windwalker said:
It is a matter of opinion that is a direct commandment of God. Each understands what God wants of them to be differently. Including you. You somehow are excluding yourself from this, whereas in reality the entire passage is to those who think they are following God's commandment while offending their brother by assuming they are not. As I said, it's a tough pill to swallow for those who think they are in the right and judges themselves and others from that perspective. Paul is trying to get you to see past yourself and your beliefs to see they are in fact irrelevant to God. He's trying to get you to see it from God's perspective. God judges by the heart of the believer, not by their observances. And so should you.

So let's say the seventh day Sabbath is done away with and it's now up to however you feel as to which day to put down your tools of trade and come from far and near to gather together as the family of God. You say Wednesday should be the day I say Tuesday should be the day yet another says Friday should be the day now your pastor who believes the Sabbath is still the Lord's Day puts a sermon together to preach on Sabbath and nobody shows up. What kind of government do you think God has?

Windwalker · Mar 28, 2015

k4c said:
So let's say the seventh day Sabbath is done away with and it's now up to however you feel as to which day to put down your tools of trade and come from far and near to gather together as the family of God. You say Wednesday should be the day I say Tuesday should be the day yet another says Friday should be the day now your pastor who believes the Sabbath is still the Lord's Day puts a sermon together to preach on Sabbath and nobody shows up. What kind of government do you think God has?

I think these sorts of things are arbitrary, but for the sake of a particular congregation you come together and make certain decisions on what day to meet. It's up to you, not God. Why do the rules for such organizational matters have to come from God? Why can't people make decisions together in the spirit of unity and cooperation? Are you saying children of God are incapable of building a community together and they need a dictator to rule them? If so, that's a sure earmark of the spiritually immature.

The point of Romans 14 is to say it doesn't matter to God what day it is. It's up to you to decide together and quit judging each other as no following God. That if anything offends God more than you meeting on the right or the wrong day. Those are really besides the point. What kind of government does God have? A government ruled by mutual respect, not a dictator.

k4c · Mar 28, 2015

Windwalker said:
I think these sorts of things are arbitrary, but for the sake of a particular congregation you come together and make certain decisions on what day to meet. It's up to you, not God. Why do the rules for such organizational matters have to come from God? Why can't people make decisions together in the spirit of unity and cooperation? Are you saying children of God are incapable of building a community together and they need a dictator to rule them? If so, that's a sure earmark of the spiritually immature.

The point of Romans 14 is to say it doesn't matter to God what day it is. It's up to you to decide together and quit judging each other as no following God. That if anything offends God more than you meeting on the right or the wrong day. Those are really besides the point. What kind of government does God have? A government ruled by mutual respect, not a dictator.

Is this mutual respect too?
http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/19/us/presbyterian-church-same-sex-marriage/

Windwalker · Mar 28, 2015

k4c said:
Is this mutual respect too?
http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/19/us/presbyterian-church-same-sex-marriage/

We were speaking about the observance of days, which I think we have established is not an issue in the eyes of God, only yours and those who place importance on legalistic mandates as more important than the Spirit of Love. Now you are shifting this to questions of a particular church standards on issues of homosexuality or whatever hot-button topic you wish to toss out to distract away from the real issues which is tolerance and love, basically the entire Christian path. Very well, let's move to the next level on the exercise of Christian tolerance and love.

So let's say you have a gay couple who have been together as partners for 16 years come into your church after finding the message of love that Jesus taught to be beneficial to them. They have found meaning and a deep spiritual awakening together in what Jesus taught, and wish to further this knowledge of God in their lives, as individuals and together as a loving, mutually caring couple. Then they meet you. You know what God expects of them because you have it figured out based on your Bible studies. You judge them as sinning against God, and that God hates them as a couple. You cite various and sundry verses that support your point of view. You know better than them. God is on your side in this, just like it's clear-cut you should get together on Saturday because it's the Lord's Day established in the book of Genesis. You see where this is going?

So you therefore because of your beliefs, invalidate others sincerity of faith. You do exactly what Paul in Romans 14 is telling you to not do. You put a stumbling block before them, confusing them, causing them to stumble because you think you really, actually understand God's rules. Nonsence. Paul is instructing you and anyone who thinks they have the right understanding of what God desires to be humble. Be humble. You're not right, anymore than they are. Each eats or does not eat unto the Lord, and each, even though opposite in their ways are equally doing the same sincere faith. And it is the sincerity that God hears, that God sees, that God accepts, well over and beyond your petty interpretations of scripture. "I desire mercy, not sacrifice, says the Lord". It is the heart of Love that sees the kingdom of God, not one's religious self-righteousness.

"Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you."

Why? Because it is the heart of faith that sees God, not the observance of days, not the correct beliefs, not following the letter of the law. That is so much cow dung compared to the heart of love. You will never see the kingdom of God when you judge others, even if you tell yourself it is God who judges. It is not God. It's you who judge. Stop it, says Paul in Romans 14. I wholeheartedly agree.

Twilight Hue · Mar 28, 2015

So who exactly has the eyes of God by which it's all based? Names?

Windwalker · Mar 29, 2015

Nowhere Man said:
So who exactly has the eyes of God by which it's all based? Names?

"The eye through which I see God is the same eye through which God sees me; my eye and God's eye are one eye, one seeing, one knowing, one love." ~ Meister Eckhart.

k4c · Mar 29, 2015

Windwalker said:
We were speaking about the observance of days, which I think we have established is not an issue in the eyes of God, only yours and those who place importance on legalistic mandates as more important than the Spirit of Love. Now you are shifting this to questions of a particular church standards on issues of homosexuality or whatever hot-button topic you wish to toss out to distract away from the real issues which is tolerance and love, basically the entire Christian path. Very well, let's move to the next level on the exercise of Christian tolerance and love.

So let's say you have a gay couple who have been together as partners for 16 years come into your church after finding the message of love that Jesus taught to be beneficial to them. They have found meaning and a deep spiritual awakening together in what Jesus taught, and wish to further this knowledge of God in their lives, as individuals and together as a loving, mutually caring couple. Then they meet you. You know what God expects of them because you have it figured out based on your Bible studies. You judge them as sinning against God, and that God hates them as a couple. You cite various and sundry verses that support your point of view. You know better than them. God is on your side in this, just like it's clear-cut you should get together on Saturday because it's the Lord's Day established in the book of Genesis. You see where this is going?

So you therefore because of your beliefs, invalidate others sincerity of faith. You do exactly what Paul in Romans 14 is telling you to not do. You put a stumbling block before them, confusing them, causing them to stumble because you think you really, actually understand God's rules. Nonsence. Paul is instructing you and anyone who thinks they have the right understanding of what God desires to be humble. Be humble. You're not right, anymore than they are. Each eats or does not eat unto the Lord, and each, even though opposite in their ways are equally doing the same sincere faith. And it is the sincerity that God hears, that God sees, that God accepts, well over and beyond your petty interpretations of scripture. "I desire mercy, not sacrifice, says the Lord". It is the heart of Love that sees the kingdom of God, not one's religious self-righteousness.

"Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you."

Why? Because it is the heart of faith that sees God, not the observance of days, not the correct beliefs, not following the letter of the law. That is so much cow dung compared to the heart of love. You will never see the kingdom of God when you judge others, even if you tell yourself it is God who judges. It is not God. It's you who judge. Stop it, says Paul in Romans 14. I wholeheartedly agree.

You call it judging, I call it sharing truth. Everything we do in faith is based on love but it's a love that is defined by God. There is a difference between obeying God as an expression of love and obeying in order to be justified or excepted. All through history we see that Sabbath day as something special.

We find it as being part of creation itself.

Genesis 2:3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

We find it being taught to God's chosen people.

Nehemiah 9:13 “You came down also on Mount Sinai, and spoke with them from heaven, and gave them just ordinances and true laws, good statutes and commandments. You made known to them Your holy Sabbath, and commanded them precepts, statutes and laws, by the hand of Moses Your servant. You gave them bread from heaven for their hunger, and brought them water out of the rock for their thirst, and told them to go in to possess the land which You had sworn to give them.

We find as being part of everyone who calls upon the LORD.

Isaiah 56:6-8 As for the Gentiles, the outsiders who join the people of the Lord and serve him and love his name, who are his servants and don’t desecrate the Sabbath, and have accepted his covenant and promises, I will bring them also to my holy mountain of Jerusalem and make them full of joy within my House of Prayer. I will accept their sacrifices and offerings, for my Temple shall be called “A House of Prayer for All People”! For the Lord God who brings back the outcasts of Israel says: I will bring others, too, besides my people Israel.

We find all throughout the New Testament. Just in the book of Acts alone the early church honored the Sabbath at least 84 times.

Acts 13:44 On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God.

Acts 20:7 Now on the first Sabbath, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul, ready to depart the next day, spoke to them and continued his message until midnight.

1 Corinthians 16:2 On the first Sabbath let each one of you lay something aside, storing up as he may prosper, that there be no collections when I come.

We even find Jesus being called, Lord of the Sabbath.

Mark 2:28 Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath.”

We even find it in the thousand year millennium.

Isaiah 66:22-23 “For as the new heavens and the new earth which I will make shall remain before Me,” says the Lord, “So shall your descendants and your name remain. And it shall come to pass that from one New Moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, all flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.

Jesus never, not even once, talked about Sunday but He taught us over and over again about how to honor the seventh day Sabbath. Paul never, not even once, talked about Sunday but both Jesus and Paul gathered every Sabbath. Now you come along as say the seventh day Sabbath is done away with. You say it has no value or meaning to God's people. You use the opinions of weak believers to do away with that which God calls holy and blessed. You say the Day that Jesus is called Lord of is nothing but a myth in today's evil and perverse world and you're probably right but not according to God.

You say it doesn't matter which day you call the Sabbath as long as you pick one but God has order to His worship. God is our Father. He has set aside a day for His family to gather in worship and praise. It the day that He protected with His Law to protect His children from the modern day task masters. You can you the opinions of weak believers to form your doctrines but as for me and my house, well you know the rest.

The tactic of Satan is to call sharing truth judgmental and unloving. This is how he is able to do away with the things of God. Don't fall for it. Come out of Babylon and follow God, not man.

Windwalker · Mar 29, 2015

k4c said:
You call it judging, I call it sharing truth.

No, it is judging. You are not sharing truth, you are imposing your idea of truth on others. This is exactly what Romans 14 tells you not to do. You are taking no responsibility for causing divisions. "I'm just telling the truth. It's not my truth, it's God's truth." No, you are interpreting what you think God wants and imposing it on others, judging them as not obeying God. "Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall."

k4c said:
Everything we do in faith is based on love but it's a love that is defined by God.

Love works no ill. Love does not judge another man's servant. "I'm just speaking truth! I'm not responsible for how I wield it. It's not my opinion. I should be free to call a spade a spade.". That's not love. That's self-justification.

k4c said:
All through history we see that Sabbath day as something special......

All the rest is your justification for why you think everyone should believe and practice as you. Again, missing the point of Romans 14. I for one read what Jesus said and take another meaning from it than you probably do. "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath."

My point is to you it's important, and guess what? You should practice what you feel is because that is how you express your faith to God. Exactly what Romans 14 says you should do! But here is where you fail. You do not allow others to believe otherwise. This is where you fail what Paul is admonishing you to do, which is not let your point of view disallow another theirs. "Who are you to judge someone else’s servant?"

And BTW, saying this is of Satan is nice way to ignore what Paul is saying. Personally, I think Satan would prefer quibbling over theological differences because love is not served when this is done. Which way serves love?

k4c · Mar 29, 2015

Windwalker said:
No, it is judging. You are not sharing truth, you are imposing your idea of truth on others. This is exactly what Romans 14 tells you not to do. You are taking no responsibility for causing divisions. "I'm just telling the truth. It's not my truth, it's God's truth." No, you are interpreting what you think God wants and imposing it on others, judging them as not obeying God. "Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall."

Love works no ill. Love does not judge another man's servant. "I'm just speaking truth! I'm not responsible for how I wield it. It's not my opinion. I should be free to call a spade a spade.". That's not love. That's self-justification.

All the rest is your justification for why you think everyone should believe and practice as you. Again, missing the point of Romans 14. I for one read what Jesus said and take another meaning from it than you probably do. "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath."

My point is to you it's important, and guess what? You should practice what you feel is because that is how you express your faith to God. Exactly what Romans 14 says you should do! But here is where you fail. You do not allow others to believe otherwise. This is where you fail what Paul is admonishing you to do, which is not let your point of view disallow another theirs. "Who are you to judge someone else’s servant?"

And BTW, saying this is of Satan is nice way to ignore what Paul is saying. Personally, I think Satan would prefer quibbling over theological differences because love is not served when this is done. Which way serves love?

So I say the Sabbath is the Lord's Day and you say I'm judging but aren't you judging me for saying that I'm judging when I say the Sabbath is the Lord's Day just like the Bible says? There is a standard of truth to believe and live by in spite of what you think. Even love must be defined and controlled by God. Love is a neutral force that can attach itself to anything whether good or evil.

Tumah · Mar 29, 2015

k4c said:
Worship in spirit and in truth means worship starts in the heart first and it most be according to truth. The foundation of true worship is obedience so obedience must first start within the heart.

Romans 6:17-18 But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

In the same way that sin starts within the heart first so does worship and obedience to God. Adultery and murder is first formed in the heart before it changes the outward behavior. In the same way worship and obedience does. Worship and obedience is first formed in the heart before it changes the outward behavior. The seventh day is first holy in the heart before it changes the outward behavior. Not committing the act of murder does not mean you have not committed in your heart. Not sleeping around does not mean you have not committed adultery in your heart. Taking the seventh day off from work does not mean the day is holy to you. Taking the day off from work is not what makes the seventh day holy, the seventh day is holy so we take the day off to honor the fact that it is holy. Anyone can have the seventh day off from work but that does not mean it's holy to them. People can go to church on the seventh day and still have no clue as to why they do or even care why they do. The seventh day is first holy in the heart of the believer who loves and worships God and that changes their outward behavior. Human life and the sanctity of intimate relations must first be holy in the heart before it changes the outward behavior.

Proverbs 4:23 Keep your heart with all diligence, for out of it spring the issues of life.

Since this is a debate directory even though I have no idea what you're talking about I feel obligated to say, "No, I disagree."

Unveiled Artist · Mar 29, 2015

I was looking forever for that verse. Is that the same one that says something as in "why look at what day the person is worshiping on and what that person eats" leaning towards it doesn't matter the day but where one places the heart?

Windwalker said:
"One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God." ~ Ro. 14:5-6

To worship in truth is to worship in sincerity, not doctrinal correctness.

Brickjectivity · Mar 29, 2015

Carlita said:
I was looking forever for that verse. Is that the same one that says something as in "why look at what day the person is worshiping on and what that person eats" leaning towards it doesn't matter the day but where one places the heart?

You weren't talking to me, but let me take the opportunity to post some of the many simple verses about humility in speech for Christians and letting God share the truth, instead of Christians arguing about truth. Christian authors saw argument as a means to capture and enslave, and they emphasized freedom. Wisdom came directly from God to each person. The Quakers have a way of saying this, referring to the 'Inner Light'. The Christian authors (in the context of truth) don't refer to an 'Inner Light' but instead explain the same thing by saying the Father is the source of all light, and it shines on us. At the same time Christian authors consider good deeds to be a light that other people can see (for example in the gospel of John). So there are all kinds of warnings against 'Sharing Truth' which really does begin to amount to judgment, since it denies the wisdom God gives to others. Instead God shares truth like the sun shares light, and everyone else is mostly silent (ideally).

(I Corinthians 8:1-3) ....We know that “We all possess knowledge.” But knowledge puffs up while love builds up. Those who think they know something do not yet know as they ought to know. But whoever loves God is known by God.
(James 1:5) If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you.
(James 3:3) Who is wise and understanding among you? Let them show it by their good life, by deeds done in the humility that comes from wisdom.
(Ecclesiastes 6:7) The more the words, the less the meaning, and how does that profit anyone?
(Hebrews 8:11) No longer will they teach their neighbor, or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’ because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest.
(Colossians 2:8-10) See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces of this world rather than on Christ. For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority.
(2 Corinthians 10:5) We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.
(Luke 3:5-6) Every valley shall be filled in, every mountain and hill made low. The crooked roads shall become straight, the rough ways smooth. And all people will see God’s salvation.

Worship in spirit and in truth...

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Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

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wind and rain touch not this brain