Meat is Murder, Dairy is Rape.

jeffrey · Apr 21, 2006

angellous_evangellous said:
Meat makes me agressive, especially when I eat it raw.:149:

A pound of rare steak, and a couple cups of Irish coffee, crank up the pc, log on to RF, LET THE DEBATES BEGIN!

angellous_evangellous · Apr 21, 2006

michel said:
I think you'll find that ants are far more well disciplined than humans. Pests? well, they do have a purpose in life, as does every other creature. Now, if you wish to see yourself above them all...............

Yes. I destroyed five ant mounds in my backyard this weekend, and I am calling an exterminator today to kill the ants in my kitchen. Determined little buggers.

angellous_evangellous · Apr 21, 2006

jeffrey said:
A pound of rare steak, and a couple cups of Irish coffee, crank up the pc, log on to RF, LET THE DEBATES BEGIN!

You must be a real man. I can't eat a pound. I'm happy with 16oz. No coffee with steak. Beer. :highfive:

michel · Apr 21, 2006

angellous_evangellous said:
When scholars fight about ethics, inconsistency is death. We do know that how a person treats animals is how they will most likely treat other people, which is daunting when we apply this to our slaughter-houses. However, over time, we have constructed slaughterhouses in a way that is constructive to humanity. The humane treatment of animals is productive for human relationships, even in the slaughterhouse...

It's ok... equating humanity to animals is something of a pet peeve of mine, and I know how it has brought destruction to ethics...

It's ok... equating humanity to animals is something of a pet peeve of mine, and I know how it has brought destruction to ethics..

Why on earth is that? Could you exolain?

Jaymes · Apr 21, 2006

angellous_evangellous said:
However, over time, we have constructed slaughterhouses in a way that is constructive to humanity.

The only thing constructive about slaughter-houses is that it lets people buy meat cheaply. It's cheaper to raise thousands and thousands of chickens in a space where you shouldn't even have a couple of hundred than it is to raise them slowly (did you know when raising chickens for food, the lights are kept on almost around the clock so that they will eat more?) and humanely without food that has arsenic in it.

angellous_evangellous · Apr 21, 2006

Jensa said:
The only thing constructive about slaughter-houses is that it lets people buy meat cheaply. It's cheaper to raise thousands and thousands of chickens in a space where you shouldn't even have a couple of hundred than it is to raise them slowly (did you know when raising chickens for food, the lights are kept on almost around the clock so that they will eat more?) and humanely without food that has arsenic in it.

Are you not aware of the history of slaughter houses?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slaughterhouse

angellous_evangellous · Apr 21, 2006

michel said:
Why on earth is that? Could you exolain?

Do you know anything about ethics and philosophy? Seriously. This will take a while to explain. I may need to start another thread if needed.

You can look up Nazi and other genocide propaganda and see the practical application of the destruction of ethics...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide

Dehumanization is a characteristic of genocide... see the chart at the bottom...

Jaymes · Apr 21, 2006

angellous_evangellous said:
Are you not aware of the history of slaughter houses?

I'm aware of the poor working conditions forced on workers in the early history of the slaughter houses.

Evenstar · Apr 21, 2006

evearael said:
As a mother who just nursed for a year, and a woman who has been raped, and as a vegetarian, I can say that dairy is certainly not rape.

Seems we have alot in common hun, also a nursing mother of 3 kids, a rape victim here too, and I dislike the taste of meat.

But I will add: I have 2 very dear friends are are vegan, and both of them are not as rude as the opening poster. Murder, Rape what the heck are you on?
What you say here really isnt very nice.... If cows aren't milked they die, a slow and painful death, personally I would rather drink the milk than let them die this way.
I have worked on a dairy farm too by the way, the cattle are treated pretty well. I also worked in a Chicken factory, now they are treated really quite bad.
I am a Animal lover 100% and take in all strays with in my area, because I believe Animals have the right to a good life, the same way we do, but I would never call someone a murderer for eating meat, You have no right to judge anyone, or name call either.
All plant forms are living too, but you eat them, a lettuce will squeal if its cut into (watched this on TV once) so this makes you a murderer too I think.
Lettuce also produces a milky substance.... not much different to a cow, Oooooo You also rape.
Ever heard the saying calling the kettle black?

michel · Apr 21, 2006

angellous_evangellous said:
Do you know anything about ethics and philosophy? Seriously. This will take a while to explain. I may need to start another thread if needed.

You can look up Nazi and other genocide propaganda and see the practical application of the destruction of ethics...

I don't buy into that. Just because we see animals as being 'lesser than' humans, and a tyrant treats humans like animals makes no sense. Sure, I have ethics, and a phylosophical outlook on life (which, admitedly is mainly based on my religious beliefs).

I honestly don't understand why we cannot see animals as being as 'deserving' to life as we are.

angellous_evangellous · Apr 21, 2006

Jensa said:
I'm aware of the poor working conditions forced on workers in the early history of the slaughter houses.

Then my point is sustained. How we treat animals affects how we treat people, but we still can kill animals for our food... it may be a difficult concept to grasp, but we can kill animals humanely and still treat humans justly.

The treatment of animals has also greatly improved in the slaugherhouses.

Jaymes · Apr 21, 2006

Evenstar said:
All plant forms are living too, but you eat them, a lettuce will squeal if its cut into (watched this on TV once) so this makes you a murderer too I think.

Lettuce has no lungs. If by "squeal" you mean "the knife makes a squeaking noise when you cut through it", then yes. It will not scream the same way a pig does, though. (I can't use "squeal" to describe the noise a scared pig makes... that's a downright horrific sound)

angellous_evangellous · Apr 21, 2006

Evenstar said:
Seems we have alot in common hun, also a nursing mother of 3 kids, a rape victim here too, and I dislike the taste of meat.

But I will add: I have 2 very dear friends are are vegan, and both of them are not as rude as the opening poster. Murder, Rape what the heck are you on?
What you say here really isnt very nice.... If cows aren't milked they die, a slow and painful death, personally I would rather drink the milk than let them die this way.
I have worked on a dairy farm too by the way, the cattle are treated pretty well. I also worked in a Chicken factory, now they are treated really quite bad.
I am a Animal lover 100% and take in all strays with in my area, because I believe Animals have the right to a good life, the same way we do, but I would never call someone a murderer for eating meat, You have no right to judge anyone, or name call either.
All plant forms are living too, but you eat them, a lettuce will squeal if its cut into (watched this on TV once) so this makes you a murderer too I think.
Lettuce also produces a milky substance.... not much different to a cow, Oooooo You also rape.
Ever heard the saying calling the kettle black?

Great post. Thanks.

angellous_evangellous · Apr 21, 2006

http://www.genocidewatch.org/eightstages.htm

3. DEHUMANIZATION: One group denies the humanity of the other group. Members of it are equated with animals, vermin, insects or diseases. Dehumanization overcomes the normal human revulsion against murder. At this stage, hate propaganda in print and on hate radios is used to vilify the victim group. In combating this dehumanization, incitement to genocide should not be confused with protected speech. Genocidal societies lack constitutional protection for countervailing speech, and should be treated differently than in democracies. Hate radio stations should be shut down, and hate propaganda banned. Hate crimes and atrocities should be promptly punished.

Jaymes · Apr 21, 2006

angellous_evangellous said:
Then my point is sustained. How we treat animals affects how we treat people, but we still can kill animals for our food... it may be a difficult concept to grasp, but we can kill animals humanely and still treat humans justly.

I'm quite aware of that, please and thank you. My father hunts deer and kills them quickly. There's nothing inhumane about giving an animal a quick death. However, oftentimes chickens are not killed humanely. Their slaughter, plucking, and boiling process is automated. If a chicken jerks its head up and doesn't get dragged across the razor, it's plucked and boiled alive.

The treatment of animals has also greatly improved in the slaugherhouses.

It doesn't matter two flips if an animal is killed humanely if it's lived a terrible life.

Jaymes · Apr 21, 2006

angellous_evangellous said:
http://www.genocidewatch.org/eightstages.htm

3. DEHUMANIZATION: One group denies the humanity of the other group. Members of it are equated with animals, vermin, insects or diseases. Dehumanization overcomes the normal human revulsion against murder. At this stage, hate propaganda in print and on hate radios is used to vilify the victim group. In combating this dehumanization, incitement to genocide should not be confused with protected speech. Genocidal societies lack constitutional protection for countervailing speech, and should be treated differently than in democracies. Hate radio stations should be shut down, and hate propaganda banned. Hate crimes and atrocities should be promptly punished.

This is getting downright ridiculus.

If I thought that people were equated with animals because they have no worth, I'd be advocating cannibalism, not being vegetarian. I don't eat animals because I view them as being equally worthy as humans. I know this may be hard for you to grasp, but this doesn't devalue the value of human life in my eyes one bit.

Shocking, I know.

michel · Apr 21, 2006

Originally Posted by Evenstar
Seems we have alot in common hun, also a nursing mother of 3 kids, a rape victim here too, and I dislike the taste of meat.
But I will add: I have 2 very dear friends are are vegan, and both of them are not as rude as the opening poster. Murder, Rape what the heck are you on?
What you say here really isnt very nice.... If cows aren't milked they die, a slow and painful death, personally I would rather drink the milk than let them die this way.
I have worked on a dairy farm too by the way, the cattle are treated pretty well. I also worked in a Chicken factory, now they are treated really quite bad.
I am a Animal lover 100% and take in all strays with in my area, because I believe Animals have the right to a good life, the same way we do, but I would never call someone a murderer for eating meat, You have no right to judge anyone, or name call either.
All plant forms are living too, but you eat them, a lettuce will squeal if its cut into (watched this on TV once) so this makes you a murderer too I think.
Lettuce also produces a milky substance.... not much different to a cow, Oooooo You also rape.
Ever heard the saying calling the kettle black?

All plant forms are living too, but you eat them, a lettuce will squeal if its cut into (watched this on TV once) so this makes you a murderer too I think.

I couldn't agree more. I have come to the conclusion that eating anything that gows is equally as bad; as humans though, we need to eat. If ever the day comes when I can eat totally 'engineered' food, I must give thanks for the sacrifice that all living beings have made for me to live.

Forget the rape thing....that is absurd.

angellous_evangellous · Apr 21, 2006

michel said:
I don't buy into that. Just because we see animals as being 'lesser than' humans, and a tyrant treats humans like animals makes no sense. Sure, I have ethics, and a phylosophical outlook on life (which, admitedly is mainly based on my religious beliefs).

I honestly don't understand why we cannot see animals as being as 'deserving' to life as we are.

Your inconsistent ethic is utterly useless. Seriously.

angellous_evangellous · Apr 21, 2006

Jensa said:
This is getting downright ridiculus.

If I thought that people were equated with animals because they have no worth, I'd be advocating cannibalism, not being vegetarian. I don't eat animals because I view them as being equally worthy as humans. I know this may be hard for you to grasp, but this doesn't devalue the value of human life in my eyes one bit.

Shocking, I know.

I am simply pointing out what dehumanisation does, and why ethicists recognize the difference between humans and animals, and how it is consistently applied.

SoyLeche · Apr 21, 2006

Animal rights activist on the Simpsons:

"I'm a 5th degree vegan. I don't eat anything that casts a shadow."

Meat is Murder, Dairy is Rape.

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