pagan athiest

cmdeford · Mar 20, 2015

I'm slowly coming to the conclusion that I am an atheistic pagan. Are there more out there like me? Tips? Suggestions? Comments?

My views are as follows:
-I believe in karma
- I do not believe in God's, I do believe we worship/honor ideas that seem "godly"
- I believe you should harm none, be it others or yourself
- I believe in good and evil, not heaven and hell
- I believe in magick
- I believe the earth has much more to offer than we realize, we should be grateful and protect the earth

Of course just a few things, not all but gives you an idea

Are there more like me??

Elusive Truth · Mar 20, 2015

cmdeford said:
I'm slowly coming to the conclusion that I am an atheistic pagan. Are there more out there like me? Tips? Suggestions? Comments?

Start Here Not Sure... Hellenistic philosophy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Learned Greek Philosophy...

Salute!

Quintessence · Mar 20, 2015

Although I have some strong contentions with the idea of atheistic Paganism (which we probably don't want me to get into, because I will start ranting), there are sectors within the Neopagan community embracing such a thing. You'll probably want to look at this site:

Humanistic Paganism | A community of Humanistic and Naturalistic Pagans

cmdeford · Mar 20, 2015

I did some more research on the topic after I posted this, im not sure "atheist" is the correct terminology, I thing my views on "gods" or "goddesses" is just different. It's not that I don't per se believe in them, I don't believe in the typical way most people do, I see them more as ideas that we uphold to a "godly" standard and our minds give them form and a name, I guess you could say rather than none at all, most people I tell that to tell me I'm atheist because I don't believe the way they do I guess eclectic pagan would be more accurate terminology.

Sees · Mar 20, 2015

Theology will change, evolve, adapt, ignite, etc. differently for each of us while we go through life and have exposures to different experiences and bits of information. You don't have to start digging or practicing a path/traditions only when you find beliefs, ideas, and concepts that perfectly match your own. Especially dealing with Gods, deities, the Divine, sacred, etc....all of which most people are approaching in the beginning with a Christian/classical lens.

Maponos · Apr 6, 2015

Being a 'Pagan' implies you worship the deities of the pre-Christian Western world so I would say it's impossible to be one.

The Emperor of Mankind · Apr 7, 2015

cmdeford said:
I did some more research on the topic after I posted this, im not sure "atheist" is the correct terminology, I thing my views on "gods" or "goddesses" is just different. It's not that I don't per se believe in them, I don't believe in the typical way most people do, I see them more as ideas that we uphold to a "godly" standard and our minds give them form and a name, I guess you could say rather than none at all, most people I tell that to tell me I'm atheist because I don't believe the way they do I guess eclectic pagan would be more accurate terminology.

So basically you view the gods as, say, metaphors or abstract definitions of the forces they embody; e.g. Aphrodite is love rather than an ethereal humanoid who has great power over love, lust etc?

I think it's personally acceptable to be an atheist Pagan. For me a Pagan is someone who sees nature as inherently sacred, special or divine, over and above any personal concept of the gods. But I think you're asking the wrong question here; in Paganism (as an unwritten rule) self-identification is important. We don't define ourselves by what our peers perceive us as; we define ourselves based on what we perceive ourselves to be. Hence why (as an example) there are some in Greece who worship the old gods of that country who would spit at the mere idea of being called Pagan because they still attach negative etymology to the term - regardless of the fact that I consider them to be so because worshipping the Olympians falls under my definition of Pagan.

If you give it some thought and decide that you identify as Pagan then, as far as I'm concerned, you are Pagan.

Rick O'Shez · Apr 7, 2015

Quintessence said:
Humanistic Paganism | A community of Humanistic and Naturalistic Pagans

Fascinating, I could almost be one of those. I do feel a reverence for nature but I'm uncomfortable with believing in gods. So there really is something for everyone I guess.

Quintessence · Apr 7, 2015

Spiny Norman said:
Fascinating, I could almost be one of those. I do feel a reverence for nature but I'm uncomfortable with believing in gods. So there really is something for everyone I guess.

Yeah, but as I said, I have some strong contentions with the idea of "atheistic" Paganism. To be honest, I get the sense that most of them can't manage to get out from under the shadow of classical monotheist ideas about gods enough to realize that yes, reverence for nature is revering the gods (nature = gods). I accept them in the community only because their decision to not use the word "gods" to describe what they worship is a mere semantical quibble. If it was more than that, I would draw a very deep line in the sand.

illykitty · Apr 7, 2015

You're definitely not alone. There's lots of forms of paganism that either don't believe in beings, worship nature itself and so on. Some are more metaphorical. You can Google humanism, naturalism and paganism. Or whichever terms you want to use. I found my way by exploring with these terms.

Part of my identity is paganism, but I don't believe in gods as beings, but rather I worship nature and ethics. I'm also a pantheist along with this, because I think we're just a part of a bigger whole, but again, it's not a being. It's all natural. Maybe some people would consider this atheistic, and I'm not bothered by that, but I personally refrain from calling it that. Doesn't really convey the idea and feelings.

I think as long as one considers nature as their target of worship and identify as such, they're pagan. But I'm not an expert about these things, just an opinion among many others,

Rick O'Shez · Apr 7, 2015

Quintessence said:
Yeah, but as I said, I have some strong contentions with the idea of "atheistic" Paganism. To be honest, I get the sense that most of them can't manage to get out from under the shadow of classical monotheist ideas about gods enough to realize that yes, reverence for nature is revering the gods (nature = gods). I accept them in the community only because their decision to not use the word "gods" to describe what they worship is a mere semantical quibble. If it was more than that, I would draw a very deep line in the sand.

Could you say a bit more about the "nature = gods" idea? It almost sounds a bit pantheistic.

Maponos · Apr 7, 2015

Spiny Norman said:
Could you say a bit more about the "nature = gods" idea? It almost sounds a bit pantheistic.

Imo, that's something more New Age related. In the older polytheistic religions, certain parts of nature were seen as sacred. They weren't like environmental activists are today- just that certain spirits resided in nature and those parts they resided in were sacred.

I have a problem with 'atheistic paganism' because all polytheistic philosophies are tied to the common idea that the gods and spirits exist.

Quintessence · Apr 7, 2015

Spiny Norman said:
Could you say a bit more about the "nature = gods" idea? It almost sounds a bit pantheistic.

It is, but that might be missing at what I intend to get at here.

Let's step back to something that is probably more familiar to most Westerners, and that's the Abrahamic, classical monotheist god-concept. That god-concept is understood to be transcendent, or separate from the world. There is a very deliberate wedge put between the one-god and nature/universe. This god-concept cannot be nature, nor the universe, because it is above and beyond it.

The idea of putting this wedge between gods and nature/universe is comparatively foreign in polytheistic theologies, which are predominately immanent. The gods are essentially mythopoetic renditions of various aspects of reality. They're wrapped up in a narrative package that is better suited for telling enthralling stories about the world and our place in it. We humans relate better to human-like figures, so that's a common package you see in the world's mythologies. Hestia is what governs the hearth fire of our homes; Zeus is what governs the justice of our world, Eris is the experience of strife, Kronos is time, and so forth.

In my path, I don't use historical Pagan pantheons, I just deify various aspects of reality straight up without putting them in mythopoetic packages that look like people. I quite literally worship the sun (Sun Spirit, more properly), among other things. I could also worship the sun through, say, Helios if I chose to, I suppose, but I've never really been that into personifying nature.

Rick O'Shez · Apr 7, 2015

Quintessence said:
I quite literally worship the sun (Sun Spirit, more properly), among other things.

Could you say what that involves, practically speaking?

Quintessence · Apr 7, 2015

Spiny Norman said:
Could you say what that involves, practically speaking?

Often, it is little day-to-day things. One of the other principal deities/spirits that I honor is Storm Spirit. Yesterday, I heard my first thunder of the season! What I really wanted to do was be able to light some incense and play a little song on my flute in Storm Spirit's honor to welcome it, but I was at work, so I was left with a quiet smile and internal acknowledgement of its awesome power. There will be some more storms tomorrow, so we will see about celebrating then.

Other times I will do more formal rituals - in particular I celebrate the seasonal cycles. Sun Spirit is always related to those, as the sun governs much of the seasons on our world. Sun is especially honored at Summer Solstice, though - the peak of the light half of the year. I build up various traditions and things to do over time. It is geared towards connecting with the world around me and appreciating it. It is very much about celebrating the now and that which is.

Nietzsche · Apr 7, 2015

Maponos said:
Being a 'Pagan' implies you worship the deities of the pre-Christian Western world so I would say it's impossible to be one.

It is possible to believe in(in my case) the Aesir & Vanir, but live my life as an atheist. That's the best part of pagan faiths. The Gods generally don't give a single **** about belief.

Whiterain · Apr 7, 2015

Before I went totally insane I didn't know what to make of the gods. I didn't know whether they were real or not, I felt they could be real. But I am an open minded individual that doesn't limit views to current ideals of logic or ration, which may shelter one's mind.

I now believe the Gods may be immortals that still live in or out of society simply meeting their own desires, letting the pantheons go. That means I believe in physical immortality, not invincibility like the Monotheist super deity. Even Gods can be kill, with a pistol for instance.

So I believe immortality had existed and was kept secret with only few people being granted physical immortality if they desired it by the Gods, or whomever is Chieftain, could be Jesus seeing as how his reign has lasted 2000 years, I can't argue with that or the brutality inflicted on the pagans.

So ultimately I am not sure what to make of the Gods, whether they are super natural or not, I can't separate delusion and reality at that level based on my experiences thus far because I've seen them in the flesh and in my mind.

Honestly, I don't know who is in charge but they all seem mutually respectful of Jesus but don't insist he is in command.

Hell, Jesus may have been used as a scape goat so they had a means to end the pantheons. Monotheism had already been brewing in various cultures for centuries or more.

But there also seems to be reincarnation. If such a marvel exists I wish I could explain it, but I can't.

There you have it, I'm insane.

You are talking about old war lords here.

Unveiled Artist · Apr 7, 2015

Thats actually a good point. (Erases pagan from her dictionary)

Maponos said:
Being a 'Pagan' implies you worship the deities of the pre-Christian Western world so I would say it's impossible to be one.

Unveiled Artist · Apr 7, 2015

I dont know if this will help or is real accurate, but I dont believe paganism is specifically belief in only deities. I believe that spirits jnhabitbthe land thsy died on. Also I believe the spirits of the deceased both related to me and not. I dont worship them. My family and I communicate with them. My mother and auntbdoes, Im still learning how to natural. If you can take out the concept of needing to worship, finding unity in nature will hopefully not bebas hard. Im not sure if that is paganism. In my opinion, that isnt atheism. However people have their own definitions.

cmdeford said:
I did some more research on the topic after I posted this, im not sure "atheist" is the correct terminology, I thing my views on "gods" or "goddesses" is just different. It's not that I don't per se believe in them, I don't believe in the typical way most people do, I see them more as ideas that we uphold to a "godly" standard and our minds give them form and a name, I guess you could say rather than none at all, most people I tell that to tell me I'm atheist because I don't believe the way they do I guess eclectic pagan would be more accurate terminology.

Aupmanyav · May 4, 2015

cmdeford said:
-I believe in karma
- I do not believe in God's, I do believe we worship/honor ideas that seem "godly"
- I believe you should harm none, be it others or yourself
- I believe in good and evil, not heaven and hell
- I believe in magick
- I believe the earth has much more to offer than we realize, we should be grateful and protect the earth

I am also a pagan atheist, but it is not that my views are the same as yours. For these reasons -
- I believe in karma only for the one life that we get (one may reap what one sows). No rebirth, no carry-over of karmas.
- Do not believe in Gods but consider mythology important because one's culture and society are guided by these stories, Ramayana for example.
- That is a nice rule, 'Harm none unless it becomes essential'. 'Paropakaram punyaya, papaya parapeedanam' (Helping others is merit, troubling others is sin).
- Same, Good and evil deeds are there, but no heaven or hell, or judgment or grace.
- I do not believe in magic.
- Yes, we should be grateful to earth and protect it, but what it offers is not unlimited considering what we are doing with it. Regards,

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