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Panentheism and God of the Bible

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Actually, I'm not saying it is new as in it originated today (modern). New Age I'm referring to the practices and way of seeing religions that are traditionally seen otherwise. I wasn't around in the New Age generation started (70s?); so, I can't speak to much on it.

We just take a lot of beliefs of different religions and practices (and concepts like panthenism) that are old and mix and match them (Christian Wiccan is a good example) not realizing that Wicca has it's own history (which too has been modernized) as well Christianity (which was not originally "non-denominational") and they have nothing to do with each other. That, to me, seems like a New Age thing to do.

I never understood panthenism. I can't remember when I first saw it, but it seemed like a hot word. The concept, I'm sure as you say, been around for ages. I just think it becomes "new age" when it's taken out of context and made a belief of its own (as in some religions have animist concepts but animism is not a religion; likewise trinity concept has been around for ages, but trinitarian is not a religion itself). That's actually a word I haven't heard until almost recently.
Actually, that's not why it's called New Age. It comes from the belief we are entering into a New Age of conscious awakening. Being new, doesn't not equate with being New Age. In practice, what New Age is probably best described is as "Experimental Christianity". I would say this because the basic premises of an externalized power that one engages with brings about the desire self-benefit. Instead of praying for God to help you, you send out positive energies for the universe to bring you into cosmic alignment, or some other type of rebranding of a theistic deity. It's earmarks are really a lack of depth of understanding both the sciences and the religions from which they co-opt terminologies.


That is factually incorrect. Panentheism has been around for thousands of years (the Trinity is actually panentheistic, the wholly transcendent and fully immanent divine). The term panetheism was however only first coined as such over 200 years ago, not 20. It was first used as a word by Karl Krause in the 18th century. So that is hardly a "New Age" term of a mere 20 year ago coined in California. Here's some better information on it: Panentheism (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)


Panentheism was actually within the original formulation of the Trinity doctrine, as I alluded to. It was only later that this Transcendent and Immanent divine was made wholly theistic and they "Kicked Jesus upstairs" as Alan Watts rightly put it. I started a high-level topic on this some time back: Evolutionary Panenthiesm | ReligiousForums.com


It's kind of like saying that fundamentalist quoting ancient Wisdom text have "ancient beliefs". They in fact do not. There is no actual depth of understanding, and hence the words are the "right words", but hollow and vacuous soundbites, religious'ese speak. That tends to be one of the characteristics of a lot of it, if not most. Right words, shallow or atrocious meaning. :)

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for making religious speak to a modern culture, but not to just add deep-sounding language to validate shallowness.

Anyway, I think it has its place, but its hardly anything truly "new"
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Even though some people may tie "New Age" with pantheism and/or panentheism, I cannot see that as being even remotely similar unless one attaches a lot of things to them.

The "New Age" theology tends to be quite mystical, whereas panentheism/pantheism by themselves are really the polar opposite. Some of us in this arena often are said to believe in "materialism", which can be true depending on how one may definite that.
 

Orbit

I'm a planet
Even though some people may tie "New Age" with pantheism and/or panentheism, I cannot see that as being even remotely similar unless one attaches a lot of things to them.

The "New Age" theology tends to be quite mystical, whereas panentheism/pantheism by themselves are really the polar opposite. Some of us in this arena often are said to believe in "materialism", which can be true depending on how one may definite that.
Let's not call New Age "mystical". When you say New Age, I picture crystals, platitudes, and pyramids. Mysticism is found in all major religions, and panentheism can indeed be part of that, where the godhead is immanent in us, and also transcends us.

Also, pantheism and panentheism are two different things. The terms shouldn't be used interchangeably.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Let's not call New Age "mystical". When you say New Age, I picture crystals, platitudes, and pyramids. Mysticism is found in all major religions, and panentheism can indeed be part of that, where the godhead is immanent in us, and also transcends us.
I think maybe we're using a different definition of "mystical" as that this includes anything that involves either magic or miracles, in terms of how I'm using it. Yes, some who believe in pantheism/panentheism my also be New Age people, but my point is that they're not synonymous.
 

Orbit

I'm a planet
I think maybe we're using a different definition of "mystical" as that this includes anything that involves either magic or miracles, in terms of how I'm using it. Yes, some who believe in pantheism/panentheism my also be New Age people, but my point is that they're not synonymous.

Mystical refers to mysticism, not to magic. See the Mysticism DIR for more info.
 

Tumah

Veteran Member
Does the "God" of Panentheism have anything to do with the God of the Bible? Is that what transcendent god refers to? Curious to hear your thoughts.
I can't say for sure, but I think a form of panentheism may be the way to describe G-d according to Orthodox Judaism.

Also, I disagree with what Jayhawker said above.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
I can't say for sure, but I think a form of panentheism may be the way to describe G-d according to Orthodox Judaism.
.

According to Rabbi Nelson, who sorta dwells in this area, most Jews who hold some similar views typically don't differentiate between being pantheistic or panentheistic (nor do I, btw). With both Spinoza and Einstein, for examples, both schools have claimed them, and deists chime in as well and claim them as their own.
 

johnnybmusician

BodhiBick
Does the "God" of Panentheism have anything to do with the God of the Bible? Is that what transcendent god refers to? Curious to hear your thoughts.

Many in Christian camps who subscribe to Panentheism have explained it as God being in everything, everything being in God, all matter/the universe, beings etc. as their source and also transcending matter. Transcendence refers to that which is outside of thought and matter/the universe. There are many passages in both Hebrew texts as well the Christian texts referring to this concept using imagery and metaphorically. It brings Mystics of both Western & Eastern faith traditions together on certain levels.
 

tayla

My dog's name is Tayla
Does the "God" of Panentheism have anything to do with the God of the Bible? Is that what transcendent god refers to? Curious to hear your thoughts.
Some Orthodox think of themselves as panentheism.
 
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