ImaTroll
Member
that's it. we need to silence you, lest you sway the hearts of the innocent.
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Today's modern Pharisees..
- Thread starter aaglaas
- Start date
Muffled
Jesus in me
aaglaas said "Strangely enough, you don't see the teachings on adultery leading to people being beaten, imprisoned, or murdered over, and yet we can see that happening all around the world over the 'teachings' they spread about homosexuality"
I don't believe anyone is teaching that people ought to be beaten, murdered or imprisoned for such things.
I don't believe the teachers can be held accountable for the actions of miscreants who interpret things their own way anymore than one can fault the press for reporting about terrorists when idiots harass foreign people of color.
I believe those homosexuals who display such in public invoke a revulsion that does not come from teaching while adulterers are not parading around their adultery.
I don't believe anyone is teaching that people ought to be beaten, murdered or imprisoned for such things.
I don't believe the teachers can be held accountable for the actions of miscreants who interpret things their own way anymore than one can fault the press for reporting about terrorists when idiots harass foreign people of color.
I believe those homosexuals who display such in public invoke a revulsion that does not come from teaching while adulterers are not parading around their adultery.
aaglaas
Member
And yet... that is exactly the result from their false 'teachings'... people being imprisoned, beaten, and murdered. As to adulterers 'parading' around their adultery, they are doing so every day they're 'parading' around on their 2nd, 3rd, or more marriage, living in 'open' adultery.. that is if you're going to go strictly by the Bible's definition of adultery.
Matthew 7 - "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."
The Christians who repeatedly use their measure and judgment to attack, condemn, persecute, and reject gay people with are now being measured and judged by their same standards, and are found to have fallen far short, and are shown to be full of religious hypocrisy. They have been found to be exactly as the people in Matthew 23:28 describe them. Since they took it upon themselves to judge and measure others in clear defiance of what the Bible teaches 'not' to do, they have thus brought the same judgment back upon themselves as the Bible says will happen in such situations.
Now, here are my questions to every Christian who repeatedly commits the sin listed above:
Where in the Bible does it say it's okay to repeatedly and unrepentantly ignore and disobey the teachings from Paul in 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 and in 1 Timothy 2:11-12 as most Christians do today?
Where in the Bible does it say it's okay to repeatedly and unrepentantly ignore and disobey the 7th Commandment, as defined by Luke 16:18 as most Christians do today?
Why is it that almost all churches openly welcome into their congregations the following people who have committed the following unrepentant sin (as defined by Biblical Scripture), while rejecting and condemning 'unrepentant' homosexuals? Unrepentant, because so many keep divorcing and re-marrying with no rejection or negative consequences by their congregations, such as is done to homosexual people. Is there a place in the Bible where it says you can ignore the sin of people repeatedly committing adultery as defined by the Bible below, but the same people and churches who ignore that sin can repeatedly attack, condemn, and reject gay people for their perceived sins? For some strange reason, no one is able to answer these questions.... unless of course, it is because they are practicing utter religious hypocrisy.
Exodus 20:14 (One of the 10 Commandments)
"You shall not commit adultery.”
Luke 16:18
“Any man who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery."
1 Corinthians 6:9
“Do you not know that unrighteous men will not inherit the kingdom of God? Cherish no delusion here. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor any who are guilty of unnatural crime.”
So many Christians try to rationalize this but it is clear that a true follower of Jesus can neither divorce someone if the spouse has not committed adultery, nor marry someone who is divorced without becoming an adulterer themselves.
There is an exception to the rule, however. If a spouse commits adultery, divorce is permissible.
On the same token, the Bible also says that anyone who obtains a divorce and marries another is an adulterer. Remember that 83% of this country identifies as Christian yet we have a 50% divorce rate for first marriages, a 67% divorce rate for 2nd marriages, and a 73% divorce rate for 3rd marriages and beyond.. A majority of divorces are a result of irreconcilable differences, not adultery, which shows that such Christians are again practicing selective morality.
How many Christians who condemn the perceived 'sins' of gay people are themselves working on a second, third or fourth marriage?
On the following subject of religious hypocrisy and double-standards, I'm completely aware that for most modern-day churches the following teachings are completely inconvenient and most might say, not applicable to an enlightened, modern society.
Still.... why is it that almost all Churches do not obey the following New Testament teachings, and ignore them? Where in the Bible does it say it’s okay to ignore these commands?
1 Corinthians 14:34-35
“Women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says. If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church.…”
1 Timothy 2:11-12
“A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.”
It quite clearly says that an adulterer cannot enter the Kingdom of God, and yet the majority of modern day congregations are all adulterers by the Bible's clear definition, and the majority of modern day congregations allow their women members to speak anytime they wish to in church, even though the Bible clearly says in the New Testament that that's forbidden. So... Please educate me on why the examples of sin, commandments, and teachings listed above can be ignored, while the sin of homosexual love and desire, cannot be.... other than pure unadulterated moral hypocrisy.
That said, the following is a list of U.S. Christian-based organizations and churches who have either called for death, destruction, condemnation, and/or rejection of gay people and which have been classified by the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) as anti-LGBT hate groups. The SPLC defines hate groups as those that "... have beliefs or practices that attack or malign an entire class of people, typically for their immutable characteristics." The SPLC states that hate group activities include speeches, marches, rallies, meetings, publishing, leafleting—and criminal acts such as violence. The SPLC classifies organizations that propagate known falsehoods – claims about LGBT people that have been thoroughly discredited by scientific authorities – and repeated, groundless name-calling" as anti-gay hate groups.
The SPLC clearly states that "viewing homosexuality as unbiblical does not qualify organizations for listing as hate groups." President of the SPLC Richard Cohen clarified "By 'known falsehoods,' we mean such things as asserting that gays and lesbians are more disposed to molesting children than heterosexuals – which the overwhelming weight of credible scientific research has determined is patently untrue.Nowhere in our report do we equate taking a position against same-sex marriage with hate speech."
Abiding Truth Ministries
Bethesda Christian Institute
Chalcedon Foundation
Dove World Outreach Center
Faithful Word Baptist Church
Family Research Council
Family Research Institute
Illinois Family Institute
Sons of Thundr (Faith Baptist Church)
Tom Brown Ministries
Traditional Values Coalition
True Light Pentecost Church
United Families International
Westboro Baptist Church
Windsor Hills Baptist Church
World Congress of Families
You Can Run But You Cannot Hide International
As you can see, there are many 'Christian' organizations and churches that daily spread teachings of condemnation, hatred, rejection, persecution and violence towards an entire naturally and eternally reoccurring variant of our fellow Humanity, that only result in despair, rejection, persecution, brutality, and murder.. merely over how God created them, and who they love.
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jtartar
Well-Known Member
Aaglaas,
You can condemn people for what they do, but what does that have to do with YOUR own actions??
The Bible says that we will a ALL stand before the Judgment Seat FOR Ourselves, Rom 14:10,12. So we cannot judge ourselves by what other people do, but we must obey what our Lifegiver says, as recorded in the Holy Scriptures, because what we do is between ourselves and God.
It is true that most people, even the ones that consider themselves teachers of God's word, do not obey His word.
Nominal Christians today are causing God's Name to be blasphemed, just as in the first century, Rom 2:23,24, because they say one thing, but hypocritically do something else.
Pointing out others failures does not free you to engage in any practice that God has given His feelings about, such as homosexuality, which God condemns, Lev 20:13, 18:22, Rom 1:26-32, 1Cor 6:9-11, 1Tim 1:8-11. Notice that God had recorded all these other sins, and Christians do not hate any people want them to live in God's Kingdom, but all MUST give up practices that God disapproves of.
What else does God condemn? God condemns the giving of the power of salvation to anyone else. Is it not why Jesus is considered God by many? The only scripture you have which suggests that God has given the power of salvation to any modern person or people is Matthew 24:47. You can't know for sure if that verse was added or changed and it is the only proof you have. There is much more proof Matthew 24: 45-47 means something else. You say we MUST give up practices that God disapproves of. Can you give up trusting in earth's men for salvation?
Psalm 146:3
Do not put your trust in princes, in human beings, who cannot save.
Psalm 60:11
Give us aid against the enemy, for human help is worthless.
Psalm 108:12
Give us aid against the enemy, for human help is worthless.
Psalm 118:8
It is better to take refuge in the LORD than to trust in humans.
Psalm 118:9
It is better to take refuge in the LORD than to trust in princes.
Isaiah 2:22
Stop trusting in mere humans, who have but a breath in their nostrils. Why hold them in esteem?
Jeremiah 17:5
This is what the LORD says: "Cursed is the one who trusts in man, who draws strength from mere flesh and whose heart turns away from Jehovah.
John 10:2
The one who enters by the gate is the shepherd of the sheep.
John 10:12
The hired hand is not the shepherd and does not own the sheep. So when he sees the wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs away. Then the wolf attacks the flock and scatters it.
John 10:14
I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me
Psalm 1:6
For Jehovah watches over the way of the righteous, but the way of the wicked leads to destruction.
But who do the Jehovah's Witnesses say are watching over us who we should, no, MUST, obey?
What did David's brothers chastise David about? Do you remember? Hint. It has to do with shepherding.
Unification
Well-Known Member
"Jesus brought a radically different concept of God when he stated that the father gives rain to the just and the unjust. The religious Pharisees were teaching that God was an individual that was looking down on the people with fiery wrath whenever they did something contrary to their teachings. But Jesus didn’t teach us to obey a set of man-made rules (religion). He taught us to discover the divine BEING within! This is why Jesus said the kingdom is within you! When you realize the divine within, your mind is renewed. You are transformed into a new creature. And the divine law which Paul spoke of us is fulfilled automatically from this inner place."
Unification
Well-Known Member
The only sins are missing the truth about God and oneself.
Muffled
Jesus in me
aaglaas said "And yet... that is exactly the result from their false 'teachings'... people being imprisoned, beaten, and murdered. As to adulterers 'parading' around their adultery, they are doing so every day they're 'parading' around on their 2nd, 3rd, or more marriage, living in 'open' adultery.. that is if you're going to go strictly by the Bible's definition of adultery."
I believe immoral people have a tendency to be poor judges. I believe it is not a direct result and your insistence that it is shows that your judgement is poor.
I believe the teaching is true and that calling it false will not make it false.
I believe that is a misinterpretation since no-one can judge whether a re-marriage resulted from the person wishing to leave one person for another. Even so one person's sin does not justify another person's sin. Everyone has to answer for his own sin. Also whether a person is a hypocrite or not does not change the reality of sin. If my wife told her kids not to smoke while she continued to smoke, that did not justify the actions of the kids smoking and they would have been better off following my example.
I believe immoral people have a tendency to be poor judges. I believe it is not a direct result and your insistence that it is shows that your judgement is poor.
I believe the teaching is true and that calling it false will not make it false.
I believe that is a misinterpretation since no-one can judge whether a re-marriage resulted from the person wishing to leave one person for another. Even so one person's sin does not justify another person's sin. Everyone has to answer for his own sin. Also whether a person is a hypocrite or not does not change the reality of sin. If my wife told her kids not to smoke while she continued to smoke, that did not justify the actions of the kids smoking and they would have been better off following my example.
aaglaas
Member
The Bible only condemns homosexuality when it occurs within a pagan, coercive, exploitative, or wanton situation. It does not condemn two people of the same gender joining together in monogamous union and love.
A gay person usually will realize at a very early age, many times as early as 4 years old, that they are somehow different from the other children of their gender, but do not know what the difference is. Upon reaching puberty, they will discover that they are only attracted to, able to feel romantic feelings for, and are only able to fall in love with their same gender.. the same as a heterosexual person discovers upon reaching puberty for the opposite gender... just as God created them.
How does the Bible address homosexuality - when the word itself didn't even exist until 1869? The word first appeared in Germany to describe the fact that from birth some people are predisposed toward persons of the same sex. Since the biblical languages (Hebrew and Greek) had no words for heterosexual or homosexual, it is anachronistic and misleading when 'homosexual' is used to translate a biblical text. It is wrong to proclaim the biblical view of homosexuality since there is none. This violates the integrity of the individual texts and the biblical witness as a whole. Each reference to what is today homosexuality must be read in the light of the particular literary, cultural, and historic contexts of any particular passage.
For example, I Cor 6:9, in no way refers to homosexuality in generality. The original Greek word often quoted as "sexual immorality" Paul used was "porneia", which means "idolatrous intercourse". In Corinth in the temples of Venus, the principal deity of Corinth, where Christians went to worship, a thousand public prostitutes of both gender were kept at public expense to glorify and act as surrogates for the fertility Gods. This sex with the pagan Gods is what Paul was talking about - fornication is an admitted mistranslation and has nothing to do with gays or singles sex. This rendering reflected the bias of the translators rather than an accurate translation of Paul's words to a culture of 2000 years ago worshiping pagan sex gods.
Romans 1:26-27 mentions homosexual acts performed by people who are clearly described as heterosexual. The men in the NT patriarchal culture exerted dominance not only over women, but over younger males as well. The nature of homosexual acts in the Bible are so very different from what we know as homosexuality today that the passages have no application to today's homosexuality. Such practices as in NT times simply no longer exist. Alleged references to homosexuality in I Corinthians and I Timothy are the inventions of anti-gay translators. They are not in the original Greek texts.
That is why I, my denomination of 4 million Christians, and many other entire denominations believe now that such teachings are falsehoods spread by man and innate prejudice. After all, there was no Bible for the first 300 years of Christianity until the creation of the Vulgate Bible commissioned by Pope Damasus in 382. It's no surprise that around the same time the Church advised the emperor to create legislation barring homosexuals from marrying each other, and a short time later, advised them to be burnt alive in public, that the translations made into Latin were not honest, and then once 'tradition' sets in on a particular belief, it's very hard to change it after 1,700 years, especially when it validates human prejudice and/or hatred on this issue.
Which is why I say this again:
We do not see the teachings on adultery leading to people being beaten, imprisoned, or murdered over, and yet we can see that happening all around the world over the 'teachings' spread about homosexuality.
1 Timothy 4:1-4
"But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron, men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth." For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude.
We can see that happening today from people whose consciences have been totally seared away, and who have no care or feeling whatsoever as to the spiritual and emotional pain and torment they cause gay people with their prejudice and rejection, many times to the point of suicide, or that the teachings they spread today are being used as justification to beat, imprison, and murder gay people in Uganda and many other places around the world.
We can see such people today attempting to forbid marriage to gay people as well, just as was prophesied while they reject instead of receiving with gratitude the unique way that God created gay people. It is truly horrific and goes against all teachings of Christ to Love and accept one another as God created us, but the demons are surely delighted by so much hatred, persecution, and murder.