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Problems with Noah and the flood

N

Nietzsche

The Last Prussian
Premium Member
te_lanus said:
El was the chief Canaanite God, He was God, the Father, the Creator. Elohim is said to be the seventy sons of El.
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Don't forget, YHWH himself is a composite God. Namely, the pagan Israelite's War-God who was distilled into a singular deity.
 
dantech

dantech

Well-Known Member
Nietzsche said:
One thing at a time. Don't want to make it entirely impenetrable just yet.
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Not to mention the fact that it isn't even the modern Hebrew we know. Many of the words you find in scripture are simply not used anymore, even by fluent Hebrew speakers. Fluent Hebrew speakers who have no practice with scripture will not be able to understand many words throughout the Tanakh.

There is actually a job called "Baal Koreh" which refers to the reader of the Torah. In Synagogues, not everyone, not even many rabbis, read the Torah for the crowd. It is only the Baal Koreh, because as you say, it's a difficult thing that needs to be practiced and studied thoroughly.
Not only must we learn the vowelless words, which by the way can equal multiple combinations per word, but we must also learn the cantillation signs.

This is what I do at my synagogue so I'd be glad to answer any questions you may have on the subject.
 
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N

Nietzsche

The Last Prussian
Premium Member
Jayhawker Soule said:
In bold, no less … gotta loved your certainty (no matter how uninformed).
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Errr, I fully accept I can be wrong, but I was almost certain that scholarly consensus was that YHWH began as El(God of Humanity/Highest God) in the Canaanite faith and over ages absorbed traits & the like from both other Canaanite Gods as well as neighboring Storm, War and other such Gods.
 
Jayhawker Soule

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Nietzsche said:
Errr, I fully accept I can be wrong, but I was almost certain ...
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Did you take the time to research it? So, for example, the immediately accessible Wikipedia notes:

Yahweh appears to have been unique to Israel and Judah, and his origin remains unclear. Two theories have been proposed. The first is that his name originated in southern Canaan as a title for El, the head of the Canaanite pantheon: el dū yahwī ṣaba’ôt, "El who creates the hosts", meaning the heavenly army accompanying El as he marched out beside the earthly armies of Israel. The alternative position is that El and Yahewh were originally separate gods who merged gradually. Some support for the latter hypothesis comes from the place-name "land of Š3sw-yhw," or "the land of Shasu-y/iw", which appears in Egyptian inscriptions from the late Bronze Age; this was apparently located in the Negevor Sinai, and may be linked to the name Yahweh, although the relevance and even reliability has not been universally accepted.

Assuming that Yahweh did originate as the god of Shasu nomads in southern Canaan (Edom, Moab, Midian) in the 14th century BC, his worship could have been transmitted northwards to Israel via a people known as the Kenites. According to this Kenite, or Midianite hypothesis Yahweh was probably worshipped by these nomadic tribes in Southern Palestine. For example there is a narrative tradition of Moses’ Midianite or Kenite father-in-law in Exodus 2:16; 3:1; and Judges 1:16; 4:11. This hypothesis does not propose that the these people were identical with the Israelites, but that they constituted a major element in the tribal amalgam that later became the Kingdom of Israel.
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N

Nietzsche

The Last Prussian
Premium Member
Jayhawker Soule said:
Did you take the time to research it? So, for example, the immediately accessible ]Wikipedia notes:


​
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Wait. Both those texts(which I did read before replying) support what I was saying, that YHWH is(likely) an amalgamation/fusion of two or more deities;

The alternative position is that El and Yahewh were originally separate gods who merged gradually. Some support for the latter hypothesis comes from the place-name "land of Š3sw-yhw," or "the land of Shasu-y/iw", which appears in Egyptian inscriptions from the late Bronze Age; this was apparently located in the Negevor Sinai, and may be linked to the name Yahweh, although the relevance and even reliability has not been universally accepted.
 
Blackmarch

Blackmarch

W'rkncacntr
we-live-now said:
I have been studying Genesis closely especially the original words. Let's look at Genesis 6:13 regarding the "flood of Noah".

Then God said to Noah, “The end of all flesh has come before Me; for the earth is filled with violence because of them; and behold, I am about to destroy them with the earth. Genesis 6:13

Who was speaking to Noah?

“God” right?

I have confirmed the original Hebrew word is “Elohim” the same exact name for “God” who did all the very high level creating in Genesis 1.

Now, look at this very high level “God” and what he tells Noah exactly in this next verse.

And of every living thing of all flesh, you shall bring two of every kind into the ark, to keep them alive with you; they shall be male and female Genesis 6:19

How many of each kind does “God” tell Noah to bring into the Ark?

Gods commands continue until the last verse of Chapter “6” which is:

Thus Noah did; according to all that God had commanded him, so he did. Genesis 6:22

Do you see how at the end of chapter “6” Noah DID ALL THAT God (same word Elohim) commanded him? (It is done there at the end of “6”)

Now, let’s go to the next chapter 7 and pay close attention.

Then the Lord said to Noah, “Enter the ark, you and all your household, for you alone I have seen to be righteous before Me in this time Genesis 7:1

Woah… did you catch that? Who is speaking NOW?

It is the original Hebrew word “Lord” (without “the”).

Do you see any problems here? (This is where many will miss or SKIP over or maybe even rationalize away, but I am convinced by admitting there are problems here, God will reveal a deeper and HIGHER truth. I see it myself.)

But first, the “Problems” I see

First: Didn’t Noah already DO what “God” commanded him by the end of chapter “6”? (See 6:22 again above)

Second: Do you see it is no longer “God” speaking. Now, we have the “Lord” speaking. (original word is actually “Lord” and not “the Lord”)

Third: Look at what HE (Lord) instructs Noah to do.

You shall take with you of every clean animal by sevens, a male and his female; and of the animals that are not clean two, a male and his female; Genesis 7:2

Compare this with Genesis 6:19.

Do you see these “problems”? Ideas?

(If anyone wants to hear what I am seeing, just drop me a message. It's awesome)
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1st; sometimes events get swapped or placed out of order and sometimes parts get dropped, does reversing the 2 verses clear it up. also hebrews had a habit of repeating themselves.
2nd; this isn't too much of an issue for those who believe that Christ and his Father are two seperate beings- And considering he pretty much marked himself for death when Christ claimed he was the guy in the burning bush for moses, it would probably be easier for such a person to consider that there is more than one individual that is in counsel with the prophets at various points in the scripture.

3rd; see 1
 
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