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Cool animated map of what Earth would look like if all the ice melted

Kolibri

Well-Known Member

Thank-you. I will have to give this article more thought. I know another radioactive isotope is used in carbon dating objects is actually susceptible to inaccuracy if the climate were change dramatically as would be expected if the Flood was figured into the picture. But that may or may not have anything to do with this particular isotope. Nor do I know anything about the porousness of ground in this area. Regardless the extreme cold since the Flood would make no rain here very probable.

I wonder if the altitude of the water source has anything to do with the radiation it carries. In any rate. Thank-you for the link and the interesting puzzle it suggests.
 

shawn001

Well-Known Member
Not doubting that there may be references to this idea, but I would like to see them. Are they something easy to find?

Here is another one for you. The Atacama desert in Chile, the driest desert on Earth. There are places there where it has not rained more then a couple inches in 23 million years. Gypsum dissolves in water.


The biggest flood we know about on Earth were the Missoula floods right after the last ice age in the Pacific NW. About 12,000 to 13,000 years ago.

Glacial Lake Missoula and the Ice Age Floods
 

shawn001

Well-Known Member
Thank-you. I will have to give this article more thought. I know another radioactive isotope is used in carbon dating objects is actually susceptible to inaccuracy if the climate were change dramatically as would be expected if the Flood was figured into the picture. But that may or may not have anything to do with this particular isotope. Nor do I know anything about the porousness of ground in this area. Regardless the extreme cold since the Flood would make no rain here very probable.

I wonder if the altitude of the water source has anything to do with the radiation it carries. In any rate. Thank-you for the link and the interesting puzzle it suggests.


By drilling ice core samples going back 750.000 to one million years no global fllod, it would be in the ice core data.

Throughout each year, layers of snow fall over the ice sheets in Greenland and Antarctica. Each layer of snow is different in chemistry and texture, summer snow differing from winter snow. Summer brings 24 hours of sunlight to the polar regions, and the top layer of the snow changes in texture—not melting exactly, but changing enough to be different from the snow it covers. The season turns cold and dark again, and more snow falls, forming the next layers of snow. Each layer gives scientists a treasure trove of information about the climate each year. Like marine sediment cores, an ice core provides a vertical timeline of past climates stored in ice sheets and mountain glaciers.



"To pry climate clues out of the ice, scientists began to drill long cores out of the ice sheets in Greenland and Antarctica in the late 1960s. By the time Alley and the GISP2 project finished in the early 1990s, they had pulled a nearly 2-mile-long core (3,053.44 meters) from the Greenland ice sheet, providing a record of at least the past 110,000 years. Even older records going back about 750,000 years have come out of Antarctica. Scientists have also taken cores from thick mountain glaciers in places such as the Andes Mountains in Peru and Bolivia, Mount Kilimanjaro in Tanzania, and the Himalayas in Asia.

"The ice cores can provide an annual record of temperature, precipitation, atmospheric composition, volcanic activity, and wind patterns. In a general sense, the thickness of each annual layer tells how much snow accumulated at that location during the year. Differences in cores taken from the same area can reveal local wind patterns by showing where the snow drifted. More importantly, the make-up of the snow itself can tell scientists about past temperatures. As with marine fossils, the ratio of oxygen isotopes in the snow reveals temperature, though in this case, the ratio tells how cold the air was at the time the snow fell. In snow, colder temperatures result in higher concentrations of light oxygen. (SeeThe Oxygen Balance.)

Paleoclimatology: The Ice Core Record : Feature Articles
 

shawn001

Well-Known Member
All that from the National Snow and Ice Center. I won't call them biased, I'll let satellite and NOAA data do that:

Al Gore, wrong again – Polar ice continues to thrive | Watts Up With That?
"That Woods Hole study was confirmed by today’s NOAA Arctic radar map which shows the Arctic Ice Cap at more than 4,000,000 square miles, larger than on any December 28 in the past five years..... Antarctic ice coverage is at the highest extent since radar measurement began 35 years ago.

"NOAA’s Arctic Report Card; Update for 2014 provides similar data for the Earth’s other big ice sheet, Greenland. Data from the GRACE satellite and other sources has shown an annual average Greenland ice loss of more than 300 billion tons until 2013. That loss has now dropped sharply by 98% to 6 billion annual tons since mid 2013. A loss of 300 billion tons adds about one millimeter to sea level rise."

Climate change alarmist's cred was forever undermined by Climategate, and by the Truth of what's actually happening out there. The polar bears are thriving, sea levels aren't rising, the Sun continues to have the only noticeably effect on the climate, and the caribou are still warming themselves by the Alaska pipeline that was supposed to cause environmental harm....somehow.

And nothing has been more ironically humorous than those global warming scientists who got trapped in the rapidly freezing ice in Antarctica. Their spokesman said they were "trapped in our own experiment" while refusing to admit that global warming wasn't a problem.
shokalskiy_ship_antarctic_450.jpg


You didn't do anything here that shows the planet is not warming up globally.

You also missed I guess that land is still losing ice at an accelerating rate .

you do know that is a guest blog by a geologist. Also he is "Rolf E. Westgard a professional member of the Geological Society of America and the American Association of Petroleum Geologists


"
NEWS | February 23, 2015
NEWS
| February 12, 2015
Study shows global sea ice diminishing, despite Antarctic gains

By Maria-José Viñas,

NASA's Earth Science News Team

Sea ice increases in Antarctica do not make up for the accelerated Arctic sea ice loss of the last decades, a new NASA study finds. As a whole, the planet has been shedding sea ice at an average annual rate of 13,500 square miles (35,000 square kilometers) since 1979, the equivalent of losing an area of sea ice larger than the state of Maryland every year.

“Even though Antarctic sea ice reached a new record maximum this past September, global sea ice is still decreasing,” said Claire Parkinson, author of the study and climate scientist at NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Md. “That’s because the decreases in Arctic sea ice far exceed the increases in Antarctic sea ice.”

Climate Change: Vital Signs of the Planet: Study shows global sea ice diminishing, despite Antarctic gains

Why so many global temperature records?



By Adam Voiland,
NASA’s Earth Observatory

2241_annual_temperature_anomalies_768x293_60.jpg

If you follow Earth and climate science closely, you may have noticed that the media is abuzz every December and January with stories about how the past year ranked in terms of global temperatures. Was this the hottest year on record? In fact, it was. The Japanese Meteorological Agency released data on January 5, 2015, that showed 2014 was the warmest year on its record. NASA and NOAA made a similar announcement on January 16. The UK Met Office, which maintains the fourth major global temperature record, ranked 2014 as tied with 2010 for being the hottest year on record on January 26.


Climate Change: Vital Signs of the Planet: Why so many global temperature records?


NASA's vital signs of the planet.

Climate Change: Vital Signs of the Planet
 

shawn001

Well-Known Member
Of course I am talking about plate tectonics. What causes that movement? is it not pressure from above and below? Increased pressure from above would speed up plate tectonics till the earth found a new homeostasis. And if that was not enough, one can trust (if one trusts at all in the God that creates miracles), that if necessary he would speed up the process.

Plate tectonics is generated by the HEAT in the earth, extremely simple explanation. It is something I took in college as well as Vulcanism. Had Nothing to do with a global flood.

The dynamic Earth the story of plate tectonics USGS.

This Dynamic Earth--Contents [USGS]

Earth's history in the last 600 million years

The history of the earth in the 600 million years sliding towards the present.
See how the continents move across the globe.
Several mass extinction events occured.


Earth 100 Million Years From Now

Earth's landmasses were not always what they are today. Continents formed as Earth's crustal plates shifted and collided over long periods of time. This video shows how today's continents are thought to have evolved over the last 600 million years, and where they'll end up in the next 100 million years. Paleogeographic Views of Earth's History provided by Ron Blakey, Professor of Geology, Northern Arizona University.
 

Kolibri

Well-Known Member
Here is another one for you. The Atacama desert in Chile, the driest desert on Earth. There are places there where it has not rained more then a couple inches in 23 million years. Gypsum dissolves in water.


The biggest flood we know about on Earth were the Missoula floods right after the last ice age in the Pacific NW. About 12,000 to 13,000 years ago.

Glacial Lake Missoula and the Ice Age Floods

I have not examined the ice core information, yet but I have looked at the Atacama video, or at least the first 11 mins of it - so far. I noticed that they can not date the gypsum directly, but via dating the fossils trapped in it. And that gypsum rock only forms in water. My thinking is that the radiocarbon dating may be what they were using on the fossils? The rate of radioactive carbon formation in the atmosphere has not been consistent in the past. This would have especially been true in the case of a major atmospheric event.

I do find all this very interesting (the science about why the areas around the topic latitudes is so dry), but using a variable as a constant is quick way to loose accurate dating.
 

shawn001

Well-Known Member
Watch the whole show and actually all of how the earth was made shows they are brilliant and accurate.
The desert is 150 million years old, the Gypsum was formed in water and plate tectonics has moved it onto land. We can very accurately measure land movement with plate tectonics using GPS.

There are tons of new dating methods just to know.

Overview of Methods
Superposition
Stratigraphy
Dendrochronology
Radiocarbon C14
Radiometric Dating Methods
Obsidian Hydration Dating
Paleomagnetic/Archaeomagnetic
Luminescence Dating Methods
Amino Acid Racemization
Fission-track Dating
Ice Cores
Varves
Pollens
Corals
Cation Ratio
Fluorine Dating
Patination
Oxidizable Carbon Ratio
Electron Spin Resonance
Cosmic-ray Exposure Dating

Evolution -- Dating Methods

You might want to read this to just for the info.


Radiometric Dating

A Christian Perspective

Dr. Roger C. Wiens

Radiometric Dating


"This would have especially been true in the case of a major atmospheric event".

The one your talking aboput would put 900 pounds per square inch on the body from atmopheric pressure and such all the oxygen up and you would suffocate. Not to mention cause a lot of heat.
You might also be aware of the Epic of Gilgamesh and that flood story which is extremely similar to the Noah one.

You might also notice in the bible, as have bible scholars different versions.

"NOVA | The Bible's Buried Secrets


What are some obvious inconsistencies, for instance in the Noah story?
In the story of the flood, in Genesis chapters 6 to 9, there seem to be two accounts that have been combined, and they have a number of inconsistencies. For example, how many of each species of animals is Noah supposed to bring into the ark? One text says two, a pair of every kind of animal. Another text says seven pairs of the clean animals and only two of the unclean animals.

[For more analysis of the flood story, see Who Wrote the Flood Story?.]

NOVA | Writers of the Bible
 
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Kolibri

Well-Known Member
Watch the whole show and actually all of how the earth was made shows they are brilliant and accurate.
The desert is 150 million years old, the Gypsum was formed in water and plate tectonics has moved it onto land. We can very accurately measure land movement with plate tectonics using GPS.

There are tons of new dating methods just to know.

Overview of Methods
Superposition
Stratigraphy
Dendrochronology
Radiocarbon C14
Radiometric Dating Methods
Obsidian Hydration Dating
Paleomagnetic/Archaeomagnetic
Luminescence Dating Methods
Amino Acid Racemization
Fission-track Dating
Ice Cores
Varves
Pollens
Corals
Cation Ratio
Fluorine Dating
Patination
Oxidizable Carbon Ratio
Electron Spin Resonance
Cosmic-ray Exposure Dating

Evolution -- Dating Methods

You might want to read this to just for the info.


Radiometric Dating

A Christian Perspective

Dr. Roger C. Wiens

Radiometric Dating


"This would have especially been true in the case of a major atmospheric event".

The one your talking aboput would put 900 pounds per square inch on the body from atmopheric pressure and such all the oxygen up and you would suffocate. Not to mention cause a lot of heat.
You might also be aware of the Epic of Gilgamesh and that flood story which is extremely similar to the Noah one.

You might also notice in the bible, as have bible scholars different versions.

"NOVA | The Bible's Buried Secrets


What are some obvious inconsistencies, for instance in the Noah story?
In the story of the flood, in Genesis chapters 6 to 9, there seem to be two accounts that have been combined, and they have a number of inconsistencies. For example, how many of each species of animals is Noah supposed to bring into the ark? One text says two, a pair of every kind of animal. Another text says seven pairs of the clean animals and only two of the unclean animals.

[For more analysis of the flood story, see Who Wrote the Flood Story?.]

NOVA | Writers of the Bible

How much of this is just to disprove the Deluge and how much of this is to disprove creationism - that is the idea that the earth was created in 6 - 24 hour days? While I do hold to the Deluge and to Adam and Eve as being real, I am not one that tries to cram a creative day into 24 hours. I will look some of this over. There does seem to be a lot of material here.
 

ThePainefulTruth

Romantic-Cynic
You didn't do anything here that shows the planet is not warming up globally.

You also missed I guess that land is still losing ice at an accelerating rate .

you do know that is a guest blog by a geologist. Also he is "Rolf E. Westgard a professional member of the Geological Society of America and the American Association of Petroleum Geologists


"
NEWS | February 23, 2015
NEWS
| February 12, 2015
Study shows global sea ice diminishing, despite Antarctic gains

By Maria-José Viñas,

NASA's Earth Science News Team

Sea ice increases in Antarctica do not make up for the accelerated Arctic sea ice loss of the last decades, a new NASA study finds. As a whole, the planet has been shedding sea ice at an average annual rate of 13,500 square miles (35,000 square kilometers) since 1979, the equivalent of losing an area of sea ice larger than the state of Maryland every year.

“Even though Antarctic sea ice reached a new record maximum this past September, global sea ice is still decreasing,” said Claire Parkinson, author of the study and climate scientist at NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Md. “That’s because the decreases in Arctic sea ice far exceed the increases in Antarctic sea ice.”

Climate Change: Vital Signs of the Planet: Study shows global sea ice diminishing, despite Antarctic gains

Why so many global temperature records?



By Adam Voiland,
NASA’s Earth Observatory

2241_annual_temperature_anomalies_768x293_60.jpg

If you follow Earth and climate science closely, you may have noticed that the media is abuzz every December and January with stories about how the past year ranked in terms of global temperatures. Was this the hottest year on record? In fact, it was. The Japanese Meteorological Agency released data on January 5, 2015, that showed 2014 was the warmest year on its record. NASA and NOAA made a similar announcement on January 16. The UK Met Office, which maintains the fourth major global temperature record, ranked 2014 as tied with 2010 for being the hottest year on record on January 26.


Climate Change: Vital Signs of the Planet: Why so many global temperature records?


NASA's vital signs of the planet.

Climate Change: Vital Signs of the Planet

What, the surge in antarctic ice is caused by global warming?

And there was this other paragraph:
"All this frigid data parallels the 17 year pause in global land and sea surface temperatures as reported by NASA, NOAA, the UK Climate Research Unit, and the University of Alabama Huntsville Remote Sensing Systems program. That pause is occurring despite our annual release of more than 30 billion tons of carbon dioxide(CO2) from burning fossil fuels, especially coal. Half of that CO2 release stays in the atmosphere. But CO2 remains a trace gas, as the atmosphere weighs several quadrillion tons, and a quadrillion is a million times a billion."

Climate doom-sayers, (read socialists) don't understand the necessity of maintaining their credibility (because they hadn't had to even try until say 10 years ago), and the massive damage that getting caught lying (i.e. Climategate) causes. Of course there will always be those who will stand up for their side no matter how obvious the lie, who Lenin referred to as "useful idiots". And is it even necessary to quote Goebbels again.
 

shawn001

Well-Known Member
How much of this is just to disprove the Deluge and how much of this is to disprove creationism - that is the idea that the earth was created in 6 - 24 hour days? While I do hold to the Deluge and to Adam and Eve as being real, I am not one that tries to cram a creative day into 24 hours. I will look some of this over. There does seem to be a lot of material here.

"How much of this is just to disprove the Deluge and how much of this is to disprove creationist."

Its just we know there was no global flood and this is all about science. The flood story almost certainly comes from earlier Sumerian and Babylonian flood stories.

Day's on Earth weren't always 24 hour days either, when the solar system was forming.
 

shawn001

Well-Known Member
What, the surge in antarctic ice is caused by global warming?

And there was this other paragraph:
"All this frigid data parallels the 17 year pause in global land and sea surface temperatures as reported by NASA, NOAA, the UK Climate Research Unit, and the University of Alabama Huntsville Remote Sensing Systems program. That pause is occurring despite our annual release of more than 30 billion tons of carbon dioxide(CO2) from burning fossil fuels, especially coal. Half of that CO2 release stays in the atmosphere. But CO2 remains a trace gas, as the atmosphere weighs several quadrillion tons, and a quadrillion is a million times a billion."

Climate doom-sayers, (read socialists) don't understand the necessity of maintaining their credibility (because they hadn't had to even try until say 10 years ago), and the massive damage that getting caught lying (i.e. Climategate) causes. Of course there will always be those who will stand up for their side no matter how obvious the lie, who Lenin referred to as "useful idiots". And is it even necessary to quote Goebbels again.


The planet is heating up period and yes "the surge in antarctic ice is caused by global warming"

You do know also the oceans are a carbon sink and are 30% more acidic right noow because they are absorbing so much carbon. Not to mention breaking down the fod chain, basically truning the oceans into battery acid.

http://www.weather.com/science/environment/news/what-survive-oceans-hotter-acidic-20140915

Which also in turn


Rising ocean acidity will exacerbate global warming
Carbon dioxide soaked up by seawater will cause plankton to release less cloud-forming compounds back into atmosphere.

Rising ocean acidity will exacerbate global warming : Nature News & Comment

Humans put up more carbon into the atmosphere in 2 and 1/2 days, which by the way has a human signature isotope then all the volcano on Earth in a year.


That your mentioning climategate is actual amazing, as its very old news.


‘Climategate’
Hacked e-mails show climate scientists in a bad light but don't change scientific consensus on global warming.

‘Climategate’
 

ThePainefulTruth

Romantic-Cynic
The planet is heating up period....

So unsubstantiated assertions concluded by a "period" is what's passing for reason nowadays?

.....and yes "the surge in antarctic ice is caused by global warming"

You do know also the oceans are a carbon sink and are 30% more acidic right noow because they are absorbing so much carbon. Not to mention breaking down the fod chain, basically truning the oceans into battery acid.

http://www.weather.com/science/environment/news/what-survive-oceans-hotter-acidic-20140915

Which also in turn


Rising ocean acidity will exacerbate global warming
Carbon dioxide soaked up by seawater will cause plankton to release less cloud-forming compounds back into atmosphere.

So if a rise in ocean acidity causes global warming, that is still at odds with the record low temps and icecap growth in Antarctica.

While I don't see the acidity/warming connection, I think that ocean acidity is an issue--but one we don't need to panic about, there being several ways to handle it without resorting to damning the human race as a pox on the universe and clamping down on economic growth--in the US. Alternative fuels need to be developed, including nuclear and especially hydrogen (that I've been promoting personally for decades), which is the perfect, renewable, non-polluting, non-CO2 producing fuel. US CO2 has been trending down in the US along with pollution, while Asia has far surpassed us in those categories, which draws almost no "progressive" attention. Why do you s'pose that is?

That your mentioning climategate is actual amazing, as its very old news.

Since when is corruption "old news". It was a pimple on the *** of global warming alarmists that miraculously and courageously made it to the surface in spite of the media and governments running interference.


Hacked e-mails show climate scientists in a bad light

...there can be no "but", yet one is thrown up against the wall in any case....

but don't change scientific consensus on global warming.

Consensus doesn't determine scientific evidence or facts, especially when, as climategate shows, the culture of corruption is metastasizing to an unknown extent and at an unknown rate. When climate "scientists" are largely beholding to liberal government grants to universities and to salaries in government agencies, it should be no surprise that results favoring that government's agenda are "found".
 

shawn001

Well-Known Member
So unsubstantiated assertions concluded by a "period" is what's passing for reason nowadays?



So if a rise in ocean acidity causes global warming, that is still at odds with the record low temps and icecap growth in Antarctica.

While I don't see the acidity/warming connection, I think that ocean acidity is an issue--but one we don't need to panic about, there being several ways to handle it without resorting to damning the human race as a pox on the universe and clamping down on economic growth--in the US. Alternative fuels need to be developed, including nuclear and especially hydrogen (that I've been promoting personally for decades), which is the perfect, renewable, non-polluting, non-CO2 producing fuel. US CO2 has been trending down in the US along with pollution, while Asia has far surpassed us in those categories, which draws almost no "progressive" attention. Why do you s'pose that is?



Since when is corruption "old news". It was a pimple on the *** of global warming alarmists that miraculously and courageously made it to the surface in spite of the media and governments running interference.




...there can be no "but", yet one is thrown up against the wall in any case....



Consensus doesn't determine scientific evidence or facts, especially when, as climategate shows, the culture of corruption is metastasizing to an unknown extent and at an unknown rate. When climate "scientists" are largely beholding to liberal government grants to universities and to salaries in government agencies, it should be no surprise that results favoring that government's agenda are "found".

""So if a rise in ocean acidity causes global warming, that is still at odds with the record low temps and icecap growth in Antarctica."

Wow, there is so much wrong with your post, except for renewable energy I don't know where really to begin, but will start with

"So if a rise in ocean acidity causes global warming"

This is incorrect and clearly something you don't understand the oceans are carbon sinks that absorb CO2 from the atmosphere which is why they are getting more acidic which in turn adds to warming., start with learning that first here. You also don't seem to know the difference between weather and metoerology and the heat of the planet as a whole. This is a common error of those who don't actually study the subject.


"While I don't see the acidity/warming connection, I think that ocean acidity is an issue--but one we don't need to panic about,"


What is Ocean Acidification?
Ocean acidification refers to a reduction in the pH of the ocean over an extended period time, caused primarily by uptake of carbon dioxide (CO2) from the atmosphere.

"

Pteropods are small calcifying (or shelled) organisms that live as zooplankton in the water column and are an important prey species for many fish. Changes in ocean chemistry can break down their calcium carbonate shell, ultimately leaving the marine food web at risk. This close-up image is evidence that pteropods from the natural environment along the U.S. West Coast are showing signs that their shells are dissolving.


For more than 200 years, or since the industrial revolution, the concentration of carbon dioxide (CO2) in the atmosphere has increased due to the burning of fossil fuels and land use change. The ocean absorbs about 30 percent of the CO2 that is released in the atmosphere, and as levels of atmospheric CO2 increase, so do the levels in the ocean.

When CO2 is absorbed by seawater, a series of chemical reactions occur resulting in the increased concentration of hydrogen ions. This increase causes the seawater to become more acidic and causes carbonate ions to be relatively less abundant.

Carbonate ions are an important building block of structures such as sea shells and coral skeletons. Decreases in carbonate ions can make building and maintaining shells and other calcium carbonate structures difficult for calcifying organisms such as oysters, clams, sea urchins, shallow water corals, deep sea corals, and calcareous plankton.

These changes in ocean chemistry can affect the behavior of non-calcifying organisms as well. Certain fish's ability to detect predators is decreased in more acidic waters. When these organisms are at risk, the entire food web may also be at risk.

What is Ocean Acidification?

So your right no need to give the entire ocean food chain breaking down a second thought.



Climate Change Deemed Growing Security Threat by Military Researchers

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/14/u...-security-threat-by-military-researchers.html

You don't need to reply actually because I am done with the conversation, although I applaud your efforts for renewable resources.
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
And the Gulf Stream Current would change causing further coastal disaster, and possible starvation in many areas.

*

That's an interesting point. The Gulf Stream keeps the northern latitudes warmer than they would be without it. If there is no Gulf Stream, would the northern latitudes actually be ice free?
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
That isn't how that works. The fact there are portions of the planet where there hasn't been rain in millions of years, casts serious doubt over a "global flood".

And we'll notice that the two belts of desert zone, above and below the equator, have existed for the past 10,000 years or so, especially the Sahara.
 

dust1n

Zindīq
And people say the earth was not Flooded in Noah's day. The water is still all here. It's just the weight of the water pushed the mountains higher and the seas deeper.

The weight of seas would be the same, regardless if there was ice or not. Ice is less dense than water, so it would take up slightly more room, but the weight would be the same.
 
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shawn001

Well-Known Member
Salt water is heavier then fresh water and as the Arctic and Antarctic melts and as sea levels rise the salt water sinks to the bottom and that could change the gulf stream and hence the whole planet even more, not just flooding but the food chain as well.

Also a foot rise in sea level is and don't quote me, some 20 feet inland or something like that, can't remember at the moment.
 
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