Homosexuality and the Church

Squirt · Apr 18, 2006

Jerrell said:
A Christian is a Christian.

Uh... yes.

Now I do sin I am not saying my sin is any less...But the BIble declares that Homosexuality is an Abomination and ABominations shall not appear before God.

If your sin is not any less, then perhaps it would be a good idea for you to focus on it. All sin is an abomination, Jerrell, not just the other guy's.

I'm outta here. I've said all I've got to say. Good luck in your efforts to save all of God's gay children from an eternity in Hell.

Jerrell · Apr 18, 2006

I can understand where you are comming from. Squirt. I know people dont liked to be "attacked" or told they are wrong this will drive them away. But it apauls me Christians will welcome sin into the church and act like a homosexual is right with God....He is no mroe right than Murderer, or a thief or a fornicator, now will you call a murderer a Christian? WIll you fight for his right to sin? God wants you to be happy right?

Jerrell · Apr 18, 2006

standing_alone said:
"Effeminate" is not synonymous with "gay."

This is the definition of effeminate

soft, soft to the touch
metaph. in a bad sense
1. effeminate
  1. of a catamite
  2. of a boy kept for homosexual relations with a man
  3. of a male who submits his body to unnatural lewdness
  4. of a male prostitute

standing_alone · Apr 18, 2006

Jerrell said:
But it apauls me Christians will welcome sin into the church and act like a homosexual is right with God....He is no mroe right than Murderer, or a thief or a fornicator, now will you call a murderer a Christian?

So Jerrell, as a homosexual, I'm no better than a murderer?

jeffrey · Apr 18, 2006

FerventGodSeeker said:
Because the specific word has to be found in the Bible for the concept to be discussed......oh, wait, no it doesn't. Please give your interpretation of the sexual immorality of "going after strange flesh" described in this verse, if it is not a reference to homosexuality. Also keep in mind that a reference such as this could refer to more than one type of "strange flesh", so even if you come up with something, it doesn't mean that this verse does not refer to homosexuality.

I just said that Gen. 13 is an extremely poor place to go in Scripture to discuss Sodom, as it is only mentioned in passing...Did you actually read what I posted?

How DARE you judge someone else! God is all about love, you can't say something like that!

Who ever told you that something has to be explicitly supported by Scripture in order to be true? I don't know where you arrived at this idea. I made a logical inference about a potential reason that Gibeah was not desttoyed. I didn't say that my example was a fact, I said it was a possibility....note that I said, "does not necesarily"...you even highlighted the phrase when you quoted me.

I never said that homosexuality was wrong because lots of people believe it is. I was simply stating that it is not just Christians who oppose it, and it is not opposed solely on religious grounds.
Pah, EVERYONE'S opinions are based at some level on their religious thoughts (or lack thereof). The way you view God and religion shapes your worldview, and thus in a democratic society the views you express are religiously based at some level. However, that doesn't mean everyone is "forcing their religion" on everyone else when they go to the polls and vote. Those who oppose gay marraige are not forcing anyone to follow their religion. Rather, those who wish to change the definition of marraige to include same-sex couples want to force US to accept THEIR moral code and the lifestyles THEY support. Making laws against adultery goes against nature? So then you support adultery as acceptable?
By that reasoning, every time a law is passed, it is somehow "forcing someone's religion" onto someone else, as all (or at least most) of the views we support (and thus laws we wish to pass) are based on our religious outlooks. If they don't want freedom in the public square, then why are they forcing us to give them publicly recognized weddings and marraiges?
I
If we're dealing with private, individual morality that shouldn't be enforced, then homosexuals and those who support them have no right to enforce their private lifestyles and morality in the public and force the rest of us to recognize their unions which many consider immoral and which defies the defition of marraige in this country.

Really? And how do you know that your interpretation of Scripture is infallible and accurate?

I'm sorry I don't jump every time you post a new thread, Pah. We're talking on this thread right now...some day I may get to that thread, but I make no promises.
They weren't ignored, slavery existed in this country for the first 100+ years of its existance. I think it was horrible, and I oppose slavery. What does that have to do with homosexuality? And it is ignorance and a failure to see the message of perfect righteousness that keeps you (plural) in the darkness of accepting immorality for the sake of "tolerance" or "love". It is not loving to condone a lifestyle which will lead someone to eternal condemnation.

I was referring to any sin in general. God can love someone and still condemn their actions, just as a parent loves their child but does not approve of everything they do. The fact that God doesn't strike all homosexuals dead with thunder and lightning doesn't mean He approves of their lifestyle.

I have, with multiple verses in multiple literal translations and explanations. You have yet to provide any adequate counter-exegesis.

FerventGodSeeker

Click to expand...

Back 100+ years ago, slavery was not just a religious issue. And I do see a parallel between that and homosexuality. Slaves were ok to have in the bible. But now it's not acceptable. Homosexuality, by some interpretations, was wrong, but some today are realizing Christ's message. Love all. Judge no one. If you want to use the so called moral issues in the bible, don't pick and choose. Be against gays. And own yourself a slave. Just like in the bible.

standing_alone · Apr 18, 2006

Jerrell said:
This is the definition of effeminate

soft, soft to the touch

metaph. in a bad sense

effeminate

of a catamite

of a boy kept for homosexual relations with a man

of a male who submits his body to unnatural lewdness

of a male prostitute

May I ask where you got that particular defination?

MyWebster's American Dictionary defines effeminate simply as "displaying what are regarded as feminine qualities."

Jerrell · Apr 18, 2006

NO All sin is not a Abomination. Only certain things are called an abominationin the Bible.

Proverbs 6:16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: 17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, 18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, 19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

Le 20:13 - If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. Mt 24:15 - When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

-The Woman of Revelation Chapter 17- and such things.

De 7:25 - The graven images of their gods shall ye burn with fire: thou shalt not desire the silver or gold that is on them, nor take it unto thee, lest thou be snared therein: for it is an abomination to the LORD thy God.
There are alot of Abomnations, But ALl sin is not an Abomination. God Ahtes all sin, but not all is an Abomination.

Jerrell · Apr 18, 2006

Slavery in the Bible is not the same as we think of it today. Slaves in the BIble were paid. They were kinda part of the Family. They were not permemnant Slaves. And were not treated as American Slaves were treated. There is Diffrence....Slavery and Homosexuality has nothing in common.

Jerrell · Apr 18, 2006

standing_alone said:
May I ask where you got that particular defination?

MyWebster's American Dictionary defines effeminate simply as "displaying what are regarded as feminine qualities."

That Definition is the Meaning of the Greek Word that is Translated as Effiminate. It comes from www.crosswalk.com, I also have the definition in my Greek-Hebrew Study Bible.

Jerrell · Apr 18, 2006

standing_alone said:
So Jerrell, as a homosexual, I'm no better than a murderer?

All sin is equal before God. A Liar is no better than a Adulterer. A Theif is no diffrent than a homosexual. A Murderer is no better than a backbiter.

This sums it up.
Jas 2:10 - For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
God doesn't really care which sin you sinned the problem is that you are a slave to sin. God wants you to be free from Sin. He wants you to live with him. To do this you must give up your sinful ways. That is all he asks, it is a win-win situation. God gains a child and You gain God as your Father.

standing_alone · Apr 18, 2006

Jerrell said:
A Liar is no better than a Adulterer. A Theif is no diffrent than a homosexual. A Murderer is no better than a backbiter.

Wow. I find that kind of messed up.

Jerrell · Apr 18, 2006

Your Works decide what gifts or punishments you shall have. It is your choice to go to hell, you make the choice for yourself. Shall u live in Sin and deny Jesus and go to a place of seperation from God. Or will u give up your sin and live for God? How bad is it to live for God, what harm shall be done? He is a good God, a Loving God, try him out, You will like him.

Jerrell · Apr 18, 2006

I need to write this.

God Created a man to be a man. Not a woman.
Now why do men feel as though they are not meant to be with women.

In this world there are spirits, just as there is the Holy Spirit that dwells in Christians and guides them. So are there spirits for many things. There is a demon of fornication, his name is Belial, he is mentioned in the Bible and he is also worshipped by some occults. There are spirits under the Command of Belial and Satan that can "enter" a person at birth, why is this? It is becuase it is sin, and men are prone to sin. This Spirit tempts you unbeleivebly, and the only way you can get rid of this spirit is to have it cast out of you. no not by exorcism but by the Spirit of God. Yes there is a Spirit of homosexuallity and that is why you can't resist being gay. Think about it, if your spirit wants to be gay u are gay, if u are willing...If u want to be a nice person u can be a nice person, if u are willing...You must be willing and you "person" must be about it.

Mister_T · Apr 18, 2006

Jerrell said:
I can understand where you are comming from. Squirt. I know people dont liked to be "attacked" or told they are wrong this will drive them away. But it apauls me Christians will welcome sin into the church and act like a homosexual is right with God....He is no mroe right than Murderer, or a thief or a fornicator, now will you call a murderer a Christian? WIll you fight for his right to sin? God wants you to be happy right?

Let's hear what Jesus says about this type of attitude: Matthew 23; 13"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.[c]
15"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.

Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spicesmint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the lawjustice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. 24You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel

FerventGodSeeker · Apr 18, 2006

jeffrey said:
FerventGodSeeker said:

Back 100+ years ago, slavery was not just a religious issue. And I do see a parallel between that and homosexuality. Slaves were ok to have in the bible. But now it's not acceptable.

Click to expand...

No where in the Bible are Christians commanded to have slaves. The New Testament gives guidelines as to how slaves and masters are to act toward one another, because slavery was an institution. However, that is not condoning slavery, it is simply explaining how members of a society with slavery should act.

Homosexuality, by some interpretations, was wrong, but some today are realizing Christ's message. Love all. Judge no one. If you want to use the so called moral issues in the bible, don't pick and choose. Be against gays. And own yourself a slave. Just like in the bible

Click to expand...

Sir, the Bible specifically tells us to judge:

"Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgement." John 7:24

"Judge among yourselves. Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered?" 1 Corinthians 11:13

"Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life?" 1 Corinthians 6:2-3

In recent years, an unfortunate Western image of Jesus is that He was some free-love hippie who never judged or condemned anyone. While He did offer free love and forgiveness, He also handed out plenty of judgement where it was due, and we as His followers are to make righteous judgements also.

FerventGodSeeker

Click to expand...

jeffrey · Apr 18, 2006

Jerrell said:
Slavery in the Bible is not the same as we think of it today. Slaves in the BIble were paid. They were kinda part of the Family. They were not permemnant Slaves. And were not treated as American Slaves were treated. There is Diffrence....Slavery and Homosexuality has nothing in common.

Only because you don't want it to be. Let me ask you this. Do you believe what Christ taught to be very, very important?

jeffrey · Apr 19, 2006

FerventGodSeeker said:
jeffrey said:

FerventGodSeeker said:

No where in the Bible are Christians commanded to have slaves. The New Testament gives guidelines as to how slaves and masters are to act toward one another, because slavery was an institution. However, that is not condoning slavery, it is simply explaining how members of a society with slavery should act.

Sir, the Bible specifically tells us to judge:

"Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgement." John 7:24

"Judge among yourselves. Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered?" 1 Corinthians 11:13

"Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life?" 1 Corinthians 6:2-3

In recent years, an unfortunate Western image of Jesus is that He was some free-love hippie who never judged or condemned anyone. While He did offer free love and forgiveness, He also handed out plenty of judgement where it was due, and we as His followers are to make righteous judgements also.

FerventGodSeeker

Click to expand...

Because he was perfect. Did he not say to the people that were condemning a woman that committed adultery who is without sin to cast the 1st stone? or do you not follow the teachings of christ?

Click to expand...

pdoel · Apr 19, 2006

Jerrell said:
First of all you muast understand what Christian means. It means someone who is Christ Like. To be Christ Like u MUST BE SINLESS, the only way u can be sinless is to give up sin, and live for God,

I suggest you open up your Bible more. Don't just quote verses, but actually read them, and try to understand them.

Christ would be the first to tell us that we ALL have Sin. NOBODY is without Sin. That's one of his key teachings. For you to say that he was completely without sin, and that we all must be as well, is against everything he taught.

It's very difficult to take you seriously, when you seem to know so very little about Christ.

Mister_T · Apr 19, 2006

jeffrey said:
FerventGodSeeker said:

jeffrey said:

Because he was perfect. Did he not say to the people that were condemning a woman that committed adultery who is without sin to cast the 1st stone? or do you not follow the teachings of christ?

Click to expand...

They'll probably ignore the passages I pasted as well Jeff.

Click to expand...

pdoel · Apr 19, 2006

Jerrell said:
All sin is equal before God. A Liar is no better than a Adulterer. A Theif is no diffrent than a homosexual. A Murderer is no better than a backbiter.

I agree. I think Sin is Sin. We are all with Sin. By your own explanation here, your sin is no better than that of a homosexuals. So you are just as much a sinner as any homosexual.

The one thing you continue to forget is why Christ came here. He came here so that we could be forgiven of our sins. So that we ALL could have a chance to be redeemed.

John 3:16. "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that who shallever believith in Him, shall not perish, but have everlasting life."

The liar, the adulterer, the murderer, the homosexual. ALL can be forgiven. It's not up to you to decide who is worthy. It's up to God. Now sure, I do understand the idea of repenting, and not continuing to Sin. As a practicing Homosexual, I can see where people feel that is wrong. However, my personal relationship with God has told me that I'm living the life God wants me to live. But, in reality, it's not much different than you being a practicing judger. Judging others is a sin. One that you continue to practice. So in a way, we are in the same boat.

I will pray for you, and your soul. :162:

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