Problems with Noah and the flood

I have been studying Genesis closely especially the original words. Let's look at Genesis 6:13 regarding the "flood of Noah".

Then God said to Noah, “The end of all flesh has come before Me; for the earth is filled with violence because of them; and behold, I am about to destroy them with the earth. Genesis 6:13

Who was speaking to Noah?

“God” right?

I have confirmed the original Hebrew word is “Elohim” the same exact name for “God” who did all the very high level creating in Genesis 1.

Now, look at this very high level “God” and what he tells Noah exactly in this next verse.

And of every living thing of all flesh, you shall bring two of every kind into the ark, to keep them alive with you; they shall be male and female Genesis 6:19

How many of each kind does “God” tell Noah to bring into the Ark?

Gods commands continue until the last verse of Chapter “6” which is:

Thus Noah did; according to all that God had commanded him, so he did. Genesis 6:22

Do you see how at the end of chapter “6” Noah DID ALL THAT God (same word Elohim) commanded him? (It is done there at the end of “6”)

Now, let’s go to the next chapter 7 and pay close attention.

Then the Lord said to Noah, “Enter the ark, you and all your household, for you alone I have seen to be righteous before Me in this time Genesis 7:1

Woah… did you catch that? Who is speaking NOW?

It is the original Hebrew word “Lord” (without “the”).

Do you see any problems here? (This is where many will miss or SKIP over or maybe even rationalize away, but I am convinced by admitting there are problems here, God will reveal a deeper and HIGHER truth. I see it myself.)

But first, the “Problems” I see

First: Didn’t Noah already DO what “God” commanded him by the end of chapter “6”? (See 6:22 again above)

Second: Do you see it is no longer “God” speaking. Now, we have the “Lord” speaking. (original word is actually “Lord” and not “the Lord”)

Third: Look at what HE (Lord) instructs Noah to do.

You shall take with you of every clean animal by sevens, a male and his female; and of the animals that are not clean two, a male and his female; Genesis 7:2

Compare this with Genesis 6:19.

Do you see these “problems”? Ideas?

(If anyone wants to hear what I am seeing, just drop me a message. It's awesome)

we-live-now said:

I have confirmed the original Hebrew word is “Elohim” the same exact name for “God” who did all the very high level creating in Genesis 1.

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You have confirmed? Seriously? What pathetic hubris …

"God" and "Lord" are both titles and not names, since "mighty one" and "master" are titles that both apply to Jehovah, that does not require any change in personages in the account.
Because Noah was given all flesh to eat after the Flood, and the dietary restriction of what was clean and unclean under the Law Covenant had not been introduced yet, the 'clean' and 'unclean' designations must have dealt with what was then generally acceptable for sacrifice to God and what was not. Since after the Deluge there was a sacrifice to God of a sampling of the clean animals, that left 3 pairs to restart the population of those particular kinds.

In Genesis 6:9-16, Noah is commissioned to build an ark.
In Genesis 6:17-22 God proclaims the coming of the Flood and commissions Noah to now gather foodstuffs into the ark.
In Genesis 7:1-10 Noah is commanded to actually enter the Ark with the animals.

I think you many be mixing up God proclamation of what is to be done with God's immediate instructions in Genesis 6:17-22.
As with other times, information is only revealed as it is needed. In Ge 6:17-22. Noah did not need to know that 7 samples of the clean kinds needed to go on the ark. It was never Noah's job to go hunt down the animals for Jehovah, so he did not need that information till it was time to guide the already gathered-by-God kinds onto the ark.

Nicely stated.

Gen 6:8, 9..... "Of every clean animal and of every animal that is not clean and of the flying creatures and of everything that moves on the ground, 9 they went inside the ark to Noah by twos, male and female, just as God had commanded Noah."

The animals entered the ark two by two. Having seven of the clean (sacrificial) animals meant one extra for sacrifice.

Perhaps the OP is a little hasty in his interpretation.

Kolibri said:

"God" and "Lord" are both titles and not names, since "mighty one" and "master" are titles that both apply to Jehovah, that does not require any change in personages in the account.
Because Noah was given all flesh to eat after the Flood, and the dietary restriction of what was clean and unclean under the Law Covenant had not been introduced yet, the 'clean' and 'unclean' designations must have dealt with what was then generally acceptable for sacrifice to God and what was not. Since after the Deluge there was a sacrifice to God of a sampling of the clean animals, that left 6 pairs to restart the population of those particular kinds.

In Genesis 6:9-16, Noah is commissioned to build an ark.
In Genesis 6:17-22 God proclaims the coming of the Flood and commissions Noah to now gather foodstuffs into the ark.
In Genesis 7:1-10 Noah is commanded to actually enter the Ark with the animals.

I think you many be mixing up God proclamation of what is to be done with God's immediate instructions in Genesis 6:17-22.
As with other times, information is only revealed as it is needed. In Ge 6:17-22. Noah did not need to know that 7 samples of the clean kinds needed to go on the ark. It was never Noah's job to go hunt down the animals for Jehovah, so he did not need that information till it was time to guide the already gathered-by-God kinds onto the ark.

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I really like what you shared here and will ponder it more.

Here is the actual word from the "Westminster-Leningrade Codex" for what it says about Noah in Gen 6:22.

It says "and he is doing"... active tense right now.

Jayhawker Soule said:

You have confirmed? Seriously? What pathetic hubris …

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Sometimes some of the words in the English "bible" are not even close to the original scripture words. I am saying that (as far as possible) I reviewed the original word in the "Westminster-Leningrad Codex" and in my opinion it matches what the English "Bibles" say.

Kolibri said:

"God" and "Lord" are both titles and not names, since "mighty one" and "master" are titles that both apply to Jehovah, that does not require any change in personages in the account.
Because Noah was given all flesh to eat after the Flood, and the dietary restriction of what was clean and unclean under the Law Covenant had not been introduced yet, the 'clean' and 'unclean' designations must have dealt with what was then generally acceptable for sacrifice to God and what was not. Since after the Deluge there was a sacrifice to God of a sampling of the clean animals, that left 6 pairs to restart the population of those particular kinds.

In Genesis 6:9-16, Noah is commissioned to build an ark.
In Genesis 6:17-22 God proclaims the coming of the Flood and commissions Noah to now gather foodstuffs into the ark.
In Genesis 7:1-10 Noah is commanded to actually enter the Ark with the animals.

I think you many be mixing up God proclamation of what is to be done with God's immediate instructions in Genesis 6:17-22.
As with other times, information is only revealed as it is needed. In Ge 6:17-22. Noah did not need to know that 7 samples of the clean kinds needed to go on the ark. It was never Noah's job to go hunt down the animals for Jehovah, so he did not need that information till it was time to guide the already gathered-by-God kinds onto the ark.

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Are you saying that "God" in Gen 6:22 is the same as "Lord" in Gen 7:1?

we-live-now said:

It says "and he is doing"... active tense right now.

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unlike English, Hebrew verbs do not have past, present, and future tenses. There is only imperfect and perfect tense. Where the one tense shows continuous or unfinished action, the other shows completed action. The context tells us if it is past, present or future in English.

we-live-now said:

Are you saying that "God"

in Gen 6:22 is the same as "Lord"

in Gen 7:1?

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In this case, yes. Yahweh, or the English equivalent, Jehovah, is the proper name for the person known by the title 'majestic' God (intensive plural) at Ge 6:22. Because of Jewish superstition that declared the personal name of God as something that should never be pronounced, many Bibles translate the divine name as LORD. Leaving it in all caps is their way of acknowledging that it originally was the divine name in that location.

we-live-now, who doesn't like religion, just wants the truth.

Well, you are Not alone. Even Jesus did Not like the religion of the Pharisees - see Matthew chapter 23; Matthew 15:9; Mark 7:1-7,13
Jesus too just wanted the truth, that is the ' religious truth ' as found in Scripture - John 17:17 - the Scriptures are religious truth.
That is why Jesus based his teachings on his logical reasoning on the old Hebrew Scriptures explaining them for us.
When Jesus said ' the truth will set you free ' that included religious truth setting one free from religious falsehoods.
So, perhaps, like Jesus, you might want to consider that what you don't like is false worship or false religion. - James 1:27

URAVIP2ME said:

we-live-now, who doesn't like religion, just wants the truth.

Well, you are Not alone. Even Jesus did Not like the religion of the Pharisees - see Matthew chapter 23; Matthew 15:9; Mark 7:1-7,13
Jesus too just wanted the truth, that is the ' religious truth ' as found in Scripture - John 17:17 - the Scriptures are religious truth.
That is why Jesus based his teachings on his logical reasoning on the old Hebrew Scriptures explaining them for us.
When Jesus said ' the truth will set you free ' that included religious truth setting one free from religious falsehoods.
So, perhaps, like Jesus, you might want to consider that what you don't like is false worship or false religion. - James 1:27

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I recently found it interesting that the word 'religion' actually could validly be translated into the Bible at Acts 26:5, Colossians 2:18,23, and James 1:27. We commonly see it as "form of worship" in the New World Translation.

"who were previously acquainted with me, if they would be willing to testify, that according to the strictest sect of our [religion], I lived as a Pharisee." - Acts 26:5

"Let no man deprive you of the prize who takes delight a false humility and a [religion] of [substituting God with] angels, "taking his stand on" the things he has seen. He is actually puffed up without proper cause by his fleshly frame of mind." - Colossians 2:18

"Although those things have an appearance of wisdom in a self-imposed [religion] and a false humility, a harsh treatment of the body, they are of no value in combating the satisfying of the flesh." - Colossians 2:23

"The [religion] that is clean and undefiled from the standpoint of our God and Father is this: to look after orphans and widows in their tribulation, and to keep oneself without spot from the world." - James 1:27

we-live-now said:

I
I have confirmed the original Hebrew word is “Elohim” the same exact name for “God” who did all the very high level creating in Genesis 1.

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ooh. But El and the elohim was ancient Canaanite Gods, which is left over in Judaism/Christianity/Islam from when the Canaanite religion started to give way to Proto-Judaism

we-live-now said:

Sometimes some of the words in the English "bible" are not even close to the original scripture words. I am saying that (as far as possible) I reviewed the original word in the "Westminster-Leningrad Codex" and in my opinion it matches what the English "Bibles" say.

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^ Dunning-Kruger ...

Jayhawker Soule said:

^ Dunning-Kruger ...

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that remains to be seen. but now you mentioned it, and I looked it up, I do not see the pattern from this thread alone. Eager, excited about self-discoveries, yet new to a subject, does not alone Dunning-Kruger make.

we-live-now said:

Do you see these “problems”? Ideas?

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This alone suggests to me that we-live-now is genuinely open to informational review of his rationale with a possible adjustment to his paradigms.

See: Wikipedia: Documentary Hypothesis

Genesis is largely a redaction of E and J texts. That's what is being seen in the excerpts quoted in the OP. E narrative and J narrative redacted together into a single final form incorporating elements of both. And, like much of early Genesis, E predominates, with J narrative interpolated.

No big mystery.

we-live-now said:

Sometimes some of the words in the English "bible" are not even close to the original scripture words. I am saying that (as far as possible) I reviewed the original word in the "Westminster-Leningrad Codex" and in my opinion it matches what the English "Bibles" say.

Click to expand...

I'm gonna ask this again. Do you understand Hebrew, Aramaic & Greek?

Nietzsche said:

I'm gonna ask this again. Do you understand Hebrew, Aramaic & Greek?

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Clearly no, but he's more than willing to instruct you.

Kolibri said:

I recently found it interesting that the word 'religion' actually could validly be translated into the Bible at Acts 26:5, Colossians 2:18,23, and James 1:27. We commonly see it as "form of worship" in the New World Translation.
"The [religion] that is clean and undefiled from the standpoint of our God and Father is this: to look after orphans and widows in their tribulation, and to keep oneself without spot from the world." - James 1:27

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Would you care to expand on James 1:27 as to keep oneself without spot from the world ?

URAVIP2ME said:

Would you care to expand on James 1:27 as to keep oneself without spot from the world ?

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Would you care to stop polluting the thread.

we-live-now said:

I really like what you shared here and will ponder it more.

Here is the actual word from the "Westminster-Leningrade Codex" for what it says about Noah in Gen 6:22.

It says "and he is doing"... active tense right now.

View attachment 8278

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Can you get me a link to whatever source that white box comes from? The Hebrew word Vaya'as appears 125 times in the tanach and as far as I know, it always means "and he made/did" (hu asah). It is not present tense (hu oseh). How that little white box can claim "and he is doing" (let alone u-iosh) is beyond me. The codex website confirms the Hebrew word and all the versions of English linked to the codex confirm the past tense.

URAVIP2ME said:

Would you care to expand on James 1:27 as to keep oneself without spot from the world ?

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Sure.

You mentioned "without spot from the world" specifically.

James 4:4 makes this even more firm. "Adulteresses, (or "You unfaithful ones.") do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever, therefore, wants to be a friend of the world is making himself an enemy of God."

The term "world" here is the society of people we live in the midst of. While we care for people individually we take care not to adopt the attitudes, speech and conduct that is morally stupid from God's standpoint.

We are reminded of Proverbs 13:20.
The one walking with the wise will become wise,
But the one who has dealing with the stupid one will fare badly.

We need to watch ourselves so that we do not fare badly by becoming like the world and it's ways.

"Now the works of the flesh are plainly seen, and they are sexual immorality, uncleanness, brazen conduct, (or "shameless conduct.") idolatry, spiritism, (or "sorcery; druggery.") hostility, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, dissension, divisions, sects, envy, drunkenness, wild parties, (or "revelries.") and things like these. I am forewarning you about these things, the same way I already warned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit God's Kingdom." - Galatians 5:19-21

Any one of these things will have us standing before God with a spot on our shirt as it were.