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Illegal immigrants have no right to be here.

Faint

Well-Known Member
jeffrey said:
I don't think most people realize how hard it is to immigrate here. My wife is immigrating from England. We have spent over 4 grand so far...
I know legal immigration costs a lot. I've read the fees lists. But here's the deal: I grew up here in the states, and I know that if I want to be set for life (meaning, if I want a nice big house, plenty of money, etc.) a good step would be to get myself into Yale or Harvard or one of these upscale colleges and then graduate. But if I don't have the grades, can't get a scholarship or big enough grant, and my parents aren't wealthy, well then I don't get to go to those schools. I'll either have to settle on someplace less prestigious or start working.

My point is, I may have wanted to go to Harvard (or some other Ivy League) so I could live in Beverly Hills off of a job gained with a fancy degree, but my life situation did not allow this to happen. Do I feel like I'm entitled to go to Harvard just because I want to? Do I plan on *sneaking* onto the campus and demanding them to let me stay and study just because I'm there? No. The thing is, everyone wants a better life, but just like these top level colleges, the U.S. is not a non-profit charity organization. We are not running a homeless shelter here. If you fill out the forms properly, pass the tests, AND make the bank to PAY your way here, more power to you, welcome, and congrats on being lucky enough to have such an option. If you don't, well that's too bad.

Maybe it would help to think of the money that you think you're wasting as an "investment of capital". No doubt you expect big returns (either financially or in lifestyle). Otherwise, why move here to begin with?
 

Evenstar

The Wicked Christian
Faint said:
I know legal immigration costs a lot. I've read the fees lists. But here's the deal: I grew up here in the states, and I know that if I want to be set for life (meaning, if I want a nice big house, plenty of money, etc.) a good step would be to get myself into Yale or Harvard or one of these upscale colleges and then graduate. But if I don't have the grades, can't get a scholarship or big enough grant, and my parents aren't wealthy, well then I don't get to go to those schools. I'll either have to settle on someplace less prestigious or start working.

My point is, I may have wanted to go to Harvard (or some other Ivy League) so I could live in Beverly Hills off of a job gained with a fancy degree, but my life situation did not allow this to happen. Do I feel like I'm entitled to go to Harvard just because I want to? Do I plan on *sneaking* onto the campus and demanding them to let me stay and study just because I'm there? No. The thing is, everyone wants a better life, but just like these top level colleges, the U.S. is not a non-profit charity organization. We are not running a homeless shelter here. If you fill out the forms properly, pass the tests, AND make the bank to PAY your way here, more power to you, welcome, and congrats on being lucky enough to have such an option. If you don't, well that's too bad.

Maybe it would help to think of the money that you think you're wasting as an "investment of capital". No doubt you expect big returns (either financially or in lifestyle). Otherwise, why move here to begin with?
I think there is just a wee bit of difference between going to Harvard and just being able to eat. :rolleyes: But that's ok. You have clothes to wear and food in your belly. Why should you care? Let those kids starve. Is this the typical American attitude?
 

kevmicsmi

Well-Known Member
Evenstar said:
I think there is just a wee bit of difference between going to Harvard and just being able to eat. :rolleyes: But that's ok. You have clothes to wear and food in your belly. Why should you care? Let those kids starve. Is this the typical American attitude?
It has nothing to do with caring for starving children, it has to do with bankrupting our country.
 

Faint

Well-Known Member
Victor said:
I'm starting to think most of you aren't aware of this "legal process". I listen to talk radio often. They constantly spew out "legal immigration ok, illegal immigration bad". As if they had a clue that a Mexican (specifically Mexican) had a chance to go thru the legal pipe line. They are most all denied. And yes I understand "there is too many of you guys anyways", I've heard that already. Just wanted you guys to know that there is NO LEGAL WAY for most most all Mexicans. I'm tempted to call Mark and Brian, Limbaugh, Macinter who constantly spew "come in the legal way".....THERE IS NO LEGAL WAY!!!!
Victor, first of all, I believe you are proof that there is a legal way to immigrate from Mexico as you have done this already, n'est pas? Second, the direction of your arguement would lead to a simplified immigration process which would in essence be no more than an open borders system where anyone who wanted to come here would take the next boat (or train...whatever), arrive, then become shocked, shocked that they don't have skills enough for a job, and that we don't have time or resources to train (or lodge) a sudden influx of let's say a billion people who want to live here. Meanwhile, the country would fall to s*** and collapse under this ridiculous burden you seem to be advocating.

What makes you think they deserve to be in this country? The fact that they have a low sub-standard of living? Should we take in all of Africa too? The middle east? Large chunks of Asia? Newsflash--LOTS of people want to live here--not just Mexicans. If they can't go through the proper channels and respect our laws, then they need to accept the cards they've been dealt. Get it?
 

Quiddity

UndertheInfluenceofGiants
kevmicsmi said:
It has nothing to do with caring for starving children, it has to do with bankrupting our country.

You don't need illegal immagrants for that, the politicians are doing just fine in that department.
 

Faint

Well-Known Member
Victor said:
BTW, most Mexicans acknoknowledge that the southern states were bought. But not like Alaska or other states. But under pressure of the American infantry when they caught Villa in underwear in the river.
Too bad they weren't better warriors, eh? This is what happens when you lose wars. They should have gotten to work like the Germans or Japan, instead of complaining. Maybe it's a work ethic thing?

Evenstar said:
I think there is just a wee bit of difference between going to Harvard and just being able to eat. :rolleyes: But that's ok. You have clothes to wear and food in your belly. Why should you care? Let those kids starve. Is this the typical American attitude?
So then we should absorb every poverty stricken individual in the world? Do you have any idea what you're talking about here? Can you comprehend what a "free lunch" like that would do to this country?
 

Quiddity

UndertheInfluenceofGiants
Faint said:
Victor, first of all, I believe you are proof that there is a legal way to immigrate from Mexico as you have done this already, n'est pas?
That is only proof that it once existed, nothing more. It no longer does. I was brought here at age 2.
Faint said:
Second, the direction of your arguement would lead to a simplified immigration process which would in essence be no more than an open borders system where anyone who wanted to come here would take the next boat (or train...whatever), arrive, then become shocked, shocked that they don't have skills enough for a job,
I was taking my conversation in no such direction. Have no skills? I thought they were taking American jobs? :rolleyes: Sounds like skillz to me.
Faint said:
and that we don't have time or resources to train (or lodge) a sudden influx of let's say a billion people who want to live here. Meanwhile, the country would fall to s*** and collapse under this ridiculous burden you seem to be advocating.
Nonsense Faint. I am advocating no such thing.
Faint said:
What makes you think they deserve to be in this country?
Deserve? Subject to interpretation and I want to believe that you seriously don't use this as a means of deciding who comes in and who stays. Cause if you were to ask some people in America they probably don't think you deserve to be here.
Faint said:
The fact that they have a low sub-standard of living? Should we take in all of Africa too? The middle east? Large chunks of Asia? Newsflash--LOTS of people want to live here--not just Mexicans. If they can't go through the proper channels and respect our laws, then they need to accept the cards they've been dealt. Get it?
I get it alright, but I think you are barking up the wrong tree. I'm catholic and personally don't mind lowering my standard of living to feed children of the world. I guess that may be where you and I differ?
 

Quiddity

UndertheInfluenceofGiants
Faint said:
Too bad they weren't better warriors, eh? This is what happens when you lose wars. They should have gotten to work like the Germans or Japan, instead of complaining. Maybe it's a work ethic thing?

Come again? Like the Germans and Japan? :mad:
I'm hoping I misunderstood you.
Did you get picked on by Hispanic kids in high school or something?
 

kevmicsmi

Well-Known Member
kev.
that 4.5% is only the folks who can still collect a unemployment check, now think about how many cannot collect a unemployment check because the benifits ran out, that sure puts that little number alot higher. the county i come from (St.Clair County) is standing at 23% and to top it all off, i got news from family and friends from my home town that they are going to build some new condos, get this, they are contracting the job to canadans, not the 23%+ who live in that county to do the job.
Point taken, but that has always been a factor, so it doesnt affect unemployment now anymore than it did 5,10,20 years ago. I need to say this again. If I lived in a town with 23% unemployment I would move.

as far as leaving, well thats fine and all but one needs money to get to where they want to go. not to mention, who is to say that there will be work available when one packs it up, and that is a big thing to consider when you are traveling with your kids. the point is, it is not as easy is one may think. and the same is true for immagrants legal or not.
I understand it is not easy, and I mean no disrespect, but the right to an easy life is not in our constitution.

it is a dog gone shame what some of these people have to go through to earn a buck. the mafia type organizations that give illegals money and means to get here are downright apalling because of the outragous intrest fees attached with this money. this turns many a illegal worker into a straight up slave who ends up working to pay off a debt that in most cases will never be paid off. and this my friend is the reality of the tomato that you bought at the grocery store
It is a shame organized crime has gotten into shippping illegals. We could seriously curb that problem if we sealed the borders.
these people are not comming here to become an amreican, they are comming here to earn some money to feed thier families
That is the problem. Assimilation is key for a nation to stay strong. look at the problems France is having with the muslim immigrants in their country.

over the world they are told that we here in america are rich beyond belief and when they get here, they see for themselves that this is not the reality and that it is hard to find work. if this were an ideal world, they would stay home, but unfortunetly, there is no work available for them at home. why don't you come up with a solution to this problem if your so concerned about illegal workers, cause lets face it, if they had work in thier homelands, they would not pour into this country by the thousands now would they.
We have no obligation to bail mexico out. Their extremely corrupt government would actually be a good place to start. BTW I believe in the political section there are otherthreads about illegal aliens, and I discuss in detail how I would fix the problem. Although a solution thread would be interesting if you would like to start one.

then we can better close our borders, but wait, the crops still need to be tended to, and we still need sweat shops to operate so you can wear that new desginer shirt, and we still need cows to be slaughtered so you can have that nice juicy steak to eat for dinner. hey, we still need bathrooms to be cleaned too. wonder how many americans are going to be doing jobs like this when they think its benith them .
Im perfectly willing to accept the inflation that will follow as a result. Actually it would probably be a good thing because then maybe our government would stop spending ouselves bankrupt, get the debt undeer control and normalize the value of the dollar.

some of these jobs don't even pay minnium wage.
They would now. :D Of course Im no fan of the mandatory wage either.

the point is, that this is not as cut and dry as you may think. this is an issue that affects the entire globe and all the poor people in it.
Our politicians are mandated to serve American citizens, not the rest of the world. Besides, as long as we keep subsidizing the Mexican government, they have no reason to change how they do things.

the poor suckers who got the outsourced jobs from G.M. in mexico earn less than a dollar a day doing the same job that we were earning $10 to $15 an hour for. hows that supose to feed a family, put a kid through school? heck, they don't even have social assistance programs to fall back on.
Not my government's problem.
if you think education is the way to go than you had better think again. we shall use ethopia as the example here. in the ruarl areas the kids whose families are able to scrape up enough money for school are being taught a language that the local people do not speak. this language by the way is not even spoken in the major citites either. so how well of an education are these kids getting when they are not even taught the language they will need for a job?
Some of the richest people in america are HS dropouts.
figure out a solution to these two issues and you can severly curve the illegal and legal immagration into america. figure out a way for these fat cats to come up off of some of their money and invest it into places it needs to be invested into than we will be half way there to solving this problem
The problem isnt the investors, its the lack of good potential for investment. That is caused by over regulatory,over unionized, unrealistic , over taxing cities and states. That is why
your town has 23% unemployment.
 

Faint

Well-Known Member
Victor said:
That is only proof that it once existed, nothing more. It no longer does. I was brought here at age 2.
Lucky you then. I curious, do you think the U.S. government/immigration is now actively discriminating against Mexicans? If so, why do you think that might be?

Victor said:
I was taking my conversation in no such direction. Have no skills? I thought they were taking American jobs? :rolleyes: Sounds like skillz to me.
It's called "unskilled labor", and there's only so much to go around. How do you think those current illegals are going to feel when a whole bunch of dudes from Uganda get here and do the same work twice as fast?

Victor said:
Nonsense Faint. I am advocating no such thing.
You may not be aware, but you are. It's where your arguement leads.

Victor said:
Deserve? Subject to interpretation and I want to believe that you seriously don't use this as a means of deciding who comes in and who stays. Cause if you were to ask some people in America they probably don't think you deserve to be here.
Of course I deserve to be here...I was born and raised. It's my birthright. But more importantly, I'm actually concerned about the future of THIS country.

Victor said:
I get it alright, but I think you are barking up the wrong tree. I'm catholic and personally don't mind lowering my standard of living to feed children of the world. I guess that may be where you and I differ?
Ah. We will definitely disagree on that. I oppose martyrization. And you want to know a secret--there will always be people on the bottom of the social ladder. It's called a "dominance heirarchy".

Victor said:
Come again? Like the Germans and Japan? :mad:
All I'm saying is that when some people lose wars, they find the opportunity in it, turn their fate around. If you're going to blame America for winning a war and then coercing a deal out of it, I'm going to criticize you for being naive about the concept of war in general.

Victor said:
Did you get picked on by Hispanic kids in high school or something?
Haha!! Nice. No, they kept to themselves...they were always outnumbered where I went to school (and usually skinnier than the jock crowd I ran with anyway). But lets not go there--I don't know why you keep trying to push the racism envelope.
 

jeffrey

†ßig Dog†
Victor said:
That is only proof that it once existed, nothing more. It no longer does. I was brought here at age 2.

I was taking my conversation in no such direction. Have no skills? I thought they were taking American jobs? :rolleyes: Sounds like skillz to me.

Nonsense Faint. I am advocating no such thing.

Deserve? Subject to interpretation and I want to believe that you seriously don't use this as a means of deciding who comes in and who stays. Cause if you were to ask some people in America they probably don't think you deserve to be here.

I get it alright, but I think you are barking up the wrong tree. I'm catholic and personally don't mind lowering my standard of living to feed children of the world. I guess that may be where you and I differ?
Agreed! Owe you some frubals.
 

Quiddity

UndertheInfluenceofGiants
Faint said:
Lucky you then. I curious, do you think the U.S. government/immigration is now actively discriminating against Mexicans? If so, why do you think that might be?
Lucky you as well...;)
I don't know the reasons as to why they aren't, aside from it's a numbers game. I don't take it further then that. But I do think some people in radio and America in general make statements that seem to care less if it hurts the Mexican community. Their statements can easily be interpreted in a nagetive fashion. If they don't care then should be surprised to expect anything but retaliation. Often times I've heard them say things like "those people" and specifically making it a Mexican issue and not something broader like illegal immigration. Do I think they are racist? No (perhaps some are, I don't know) But if they don't choose their words wisely and not give a hoot then it's only going to make matters worse.
Faint said:
It's called "unskilled labor", and there's only so much to go around. How do you think those current illegals are going to feel when a whole bunch of dudes from Uganda get here and do the same work twice as fast?
They'll work faster...they have no such insecurities. ;)
Faint said:
You may not be aware, but you are. It's where your arguement leads.
Rrrrright.
Faint said:
Of course I deserve to be here...I was born and raised. It's my birthright. But more importantly, I'm actually concerned about the future of THIS country.
It's your birthright to live in the US?
Faint said:
Ah. We will definitely disagree on that. I oppose martyrization. And you want to know a secret--there will always be people on the bottom of the social ladder. It's called a "dominance heirarchy".
Not surprised at all.
Faint said:
All I'm saying is that when some people lose wars, they find the opportunity in it, turn their fate around. If you're going to blame America for winning a war and then coercing a deal out of it, I'm going to criticize you for being naive about the concept of war in general.
I could have sworn the concept of taking over your land in warfare was over way before that took place. Quite archaic...but thanks for letting me know that's how it is. Your doing wonders to not stir the pot aren't you?

Faint said:
Haha!! Nice. No, they kept to themselves...they were always outnumbered where I went to school (and usually skinnier than the jock crowd I ran with anyway). But lets not go there--I don't know why you keep trying to push the racism envelope.
Ha! you must not have read my post to Kev....post#33
 

Mister_T

Forum Relic
Premium Member
jeffrey said:
It shouldn't be so hard and expensive. For the people that are against it. Put yourself in their shoes. Lets say you live in Mexico. You have a wife and 3 kids. You are tired of them eating nothing, wanting just a little better life. What would you do? I know what I would do. I would risk death to give them a better life.. just as alot of them are doing.
People often forget that our ancestors were faced with such a scenario; which is now why we're here.
 

Ciscokid

Well-Known Member
jamaesi said:
I wish instead of throwing money at fences for the border we'd try and help fix the corrupt governments of Mexico and other countries so people wouldn't feel like they had to break the law to have a better life. We're "in Iraq to help the people"- why not in Mexico?


Who is "we"??!
 

greatcalgarian

Well-Known Member
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4921000.stm

Mexico slams Georgia migrant law

_41570588_protest_getty203.jpg
The issue has polarised opinion in the US

The Mexican government has condemned a tough new immigration law passed in the US state of Georgia on Monday.
Presidential spokesman Ruben Aguilar said the legislation discriminated against Mexicans and that diplomats would monitor how it was applied.
The law, which will take effect next year, prevents illegal immigrants from receiving many social services.
It will also require police and employers to report undocumented workers to the Immigration Service.
Complex issue
The signing of the legislation comes amid deadlock in the US Congress about how to deal with illegal immigration, as well as nationwide protests by worried Latino groups.
"The referred legislation incurs discriminatory acts against the Mexican population and those of Mexican origin," Mr Aguilar said. "It is a partial measure that fails to resolve the complex phenomenon of immigration between Mexico and the United States in an integral manner." Since becoming Mexico's president in 2000, Vicente Fox has been pressing for reforms that would allow more Mexicans to work legally in the US.
 

jeffrey

†ßig Dog†
What's more important? The rights ofan American, or the righr ro survive? And as far as bankrupting America.... Hold on, got to sneeze... a...a...A... BS.....Sorry about that.
 
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