Is Elohim plural in Hebrew?

Hi Polaris,
I meant, why would a God (singular) say 'make them in OUR image'. Surely the words 'make them in our image' would make more sense being attributed to Gods (plural).

A christian said to me that the bible's God, said 'make them in our image', in reference to the bible God being the father, son and holy ghost.

It didnt make sense to me as I still think that a God wouldn't say make them in OUR image, I reckon he'd of said, 'I'll make them in MY image'.

Maybe it was a mistake through the translation of the bible or maybe it was just God having a bad day with his grammar.

It indeed was the same people who claim the 10th planet (or 12th as they say as they count the moon and sun too I think ).
I too find some very arguable and interesting points, but just like the bible etc, there are points that do seem hard to believe

Just read your post Alexander, I do intend to, I've a book on the go now and the Book of Enoch in the post, when I do finish these I do intend to read the bible and see (providing no other books get thrown in my way first as they have done recently)
Thanks for the replies everyone, much appreciated

Polaris said:

Unfortunately I'm not knowledgable in Hebrew either, but I have heard and read from several sources that Elohim is plural. I also find it interesting that in Genesis 1:26 God said "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness". It sounds like the creation involved multiple individuals.

I haven't heard about this interpretation, but it sounds interesting.

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Hmmm... how bout them there DNA altering aliens we keep hearing about :biglaugh: Maybe that's why it's pluralized in "our" image....

I've heard the interpretation of it being the fallen or ones cast down something like that... most of the references about the giants are the offspring of the Nephilim... after they bred with human women they produced 40ft giants for offspring and this was supposed to have been one of the races eliminated in the flood myth i believe :jiggy:

To be honest I always thought Elohim was a reference to angelic type beings, ditto Nephilim... meh... back to moaning about the new Tool single.

tiano said:

It indeed was the same people who claim the 10th planet (or 12th as they say as they count the moon and sun too I think ).

I too find some very arguable and interesting points, but just like the bible etc, there are points that do seem hard to believe

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Hmmmm there's a reference to the alien DNA changers now.... which group is it that claims the tenth planet that you're referring to? Sumerians/Annunaki/Nibiru reference? Dogon/Dogstar/ etc...?

What are the points you're talking about? I'm curious to hear about them

chaim - life
mayim - water
panim - face
shamayim - heaven

Clearly every word in Hebrew that ends in "im" does not denote a plural. Just like in English, every word that ends in "s" is not a plural.

In English, we have one kind of plural, the plural of quantity, but in Hebrew there are two kinds or plural, the plural of quantity and the plural of quality. The plural of quality basically conveys the idea of "much" or "great". A good example is, when Elohim asks Cain where Abel is, and Cain asks "Am I my brothers keeper?", Elohim says that Abel's blood (literally bloods; the Hebrew word is plural) cries out to Him from the ground. Certainly, the context dictates that this is a plural of quality, meaning "much blood" or "a great deal of blood".

In most cases, the way to distinguish between the two types of plural is to look at any adjectives or verbs that modify the noun. If these are singular then it is a plural of quality (also called a plural of majesty), otherwise it is a plural of quantity. Whether Elohim should be translated "Greatly Revered One" or "revered ones" depends on the context.

Also, in Hebrew, you sometimes have singular nouns with plural adjectives or verbs modifying them. An example of this is, when the people of Israel are gathered at Mount Sinai, they are referred to as "he" instead of "them". This is a way of saying that, though they are separate people, they constitute a singular whole. This is why one man's deeds are accounted to the whole nation. For this reason, we are often told how to purge evil from among us and that those who commit certain sins will be cut off from Israel.

The "Let Us" seems in the context to be a plural of quality, but I also believe that ancient Talmudic sources propose that perhaps Elohim was conversing with angels or the animals that had already been created.

Regarding Nephilim, I believe this word does indeed mean "fallen ones". I think the fact that this is not translated even though the meaning is understood points to an attempt to cover up the significance of the passage. I have done a considerable bit of study on this matter and would be glad to answer any other questions you have about it, assuming I can. Certainly, I don't know everything. I hope all this helps.

messianicmystic said:

In most cases, the way to distinguish between the two types of plural is to look at any adjectives or verbs that modify the noun. If these are singular then it is a plural of quality (also called a plural of majesty), otherwise it is a plural of quantity.

Whether Elohim should be translated "Greatly Revered One" or "revered ones" depends on the context.

The "Let Us" seems in the context to be a plural of quality, but I also believe that ancient Talmudic sources propose that perhaps Elohim was conversing with angels or the animals that had already been created.

Regarding Nephilim, I believe this word does indeed mean "fallen ones". I think the fact that this is not translated even though the meaning is understood points to an attempt to cover up the significance of the passage.

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messianic.... wow!... now that was an answer :bow: Frubals to you... very well said.

Do you know of any verses where Elohim is used as a quantitative plural? You seem quite well-informed on the subject and thought maybe you could toss out a couple of examples of the different types of pluralizations for the board.

As to the "Let Us" response.... I don't think you could include the animals in that statement because I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that the Genesis story of creation said the animals were made after Adam in order for him to rule them or for them to serve him... one of those two lol.... I don't remember without looking it up.... Now the angels... that's a thought... nobody ever specified if the angels had already been made in G-d's image or not before he made men... but we know the angels were supposed to have existed before man... so maybe something there huh :areyoucra

What is the significance of the passage that you feel is being covered up or mis-directed? I've read up quite a bit about the Nephilim so this topic is fascinating to me

bunny1ohio said:

Hmmm... how bout them there DNA altering aliens we keep hearing about :biglaugh: Maybe that's why it's pluralized in "our" image....

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I'm not sure why you're quoting me to make this statement. I specifically stated why I believe the passage is pluralized - I believe that God the Father and His son Jesus Christ (two individuals) were involved in the creation, thus the term "let us make man in our image." I didn't profess any belief in the "aliens".

Polaris said:

I'm not sure why you're quoting me to make this statement. I specifically stated why I believe the passage is pluralized - I believe that God the Father and His son Jesus Christ (two individuals) were involved in the creation, thus the term "let us make man in our image." I didn't profess any belief in the "aliens".

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*Big Grin*.... I didn't mean to say that YOU believe in aliens.... It was more of a sarcastic reply that bringing the "In Our Image" quote up... it was a likely topic to be brought into the thread... not that those were your own beliefs Sorry for the confusion :flower2:

I may be wrong but it seems to me that quantitative plurals are the more frequent of the two types. An example regarding Elohim is when we are told not to worship other elohim. In this case, the meaning is "Do not worship other revered ones." The Hebrew plural word for water, previously mentioned, can be quantitative if referring to several bodies of water as opposed to a single massive body of water. Really, any Hebrew plural can be either type depending on the context. Sometimes though, the context is not absolutely clear, and it is up to the reader to interpret which is meant.

Regarding animals being created after man, I have never heard this before. I'm not saying that it definitely isn't true, but it seems to me that, based on Genesis, it is relatively clear that animals were created before man. In fact, there are some startling sources in early Jewish literature, predating Darwin by hundreds of years, that propose an interpretation of Genesis that is much like Evolution, with the exception that it is directed by the Greatly Revered One. For example, one source claims that the first man had a tail like an animal. Another says that before Enosh's generation, men's faces were like those of monkeys. Based on my studies, I feel safe saying that this is definitely a possibility based on the Hebrew text. If you have more questions about this, I can try to answer them.

Finally, regarding the Nephilim, I believe the passage in Genesis 6, other passages in the Tanakh and Apostolic Writings, the Book of Enoch, and the Book of Jubilees, among others have been either ignored, misinterpreted, or otherwise skirted, because a proper understanding of these passages and books leads to an amazingly powerful and encompassing foundation of historical understanding by which one comes to see that truth is most assuredly stranger than fiction. Understanding these things is the beginning to understanding that all mythology represents objective past and perhaps present reality to a much greater degree than either the secular or religious establishments want people to realize. Please let me know on what precisely you would like me to elaborate, given that it is such a broad topic and you have some knowledge of it already. Hopefully, I'll be able to clarify some things.

Also, please do not use the little bowing guy in responses to me. It makes me uncomfortable. I do appreciate the encouragement, though. Thanks.

tiano said:

I've been reading up on some books that claim that Elohim which is supposed to represent God in the Old Testament, is actually plural and should read Gods.
Can anyone tell me if this is indeed correct? ( I haven't read the old testament and certainly can't read hebrew!)

The same person also claims that although Nefilim in the old testament is traditional interpreted as 'giants' , but could also be interpreted as ' those who were cast down'.

Does anyone know if indeed these descriptions from the original hebrew bible, could be interpreted in these ways?

Thanks all

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Elohim is a plural noun denoting a singular entity much as we might say a bunch of grapes. Bunch is a plural noun. When used to describe one bunch of grapes it is singular in meaning.

God is a plurality meaning that there is one God but He is plural in nature. When God made man in his own image He created man as a plurality ie. both male and female.

messianicmystic said:

Finally, regarding the Nephilim, I believe the passage in Genesis 6, other passages in the Tanakh and Apostolic Writings, the Book of Enoch, and the Book of Jubilees, among others have been either ignored, misinterpreted, or otherwise skirted, because a proper understanding of these passages and books leads to an amazingly powerful and encompassing foundation of historical understanding by which one comes to see that truth is most assuredly stranger than fiction.

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Get over yourself. :slap:

Thanks for the further replies, it certainly clears it up more as to how the the Let Us can be plural and still yet be in reference to a singular God. Its also reveals that Hebrew is rather complex too!

I was advised to read the OT and see were I can logically fit in Elohim plural, rather than Elohim singular. I must admit though its going to take quite a few re readings of the explanations given here to help it sink more but many thanks for explaining it in such depth Messianic Mystic.

Its interesting to read that Nephilim can be meant as 'those cast down' too.
Who or what are the Nephilim then? If they are the sons of God, are they meant to be interpreted as angels?


I will get around to reading the bible too, hopefully in the next few months ( got a few books to get through yet). I suppose the best way to make up your mind is to get both sides of the story so to speak

Thanks again

Bunny1Ohio

The Sumerians ere the human civilisation that left the clay tablets of their history which refers to the alien help. The aliens were the Annunaki and the planet they came from was called Nibiru.

I haven't read the bible but have heard stories and watched documentaries on bible stories and some of the points I find hard to believe are for example:

Adam and Eve are the first humans, they have Cain and Abel first, no other mention of any other humans yet in this part of the story. Cain then kills Abel and then gets on his toes to found a city.
No other humans mentioned, yet he's off to found a city..with who? No other females mentioned for him to start a family with and considering there's only him, his mum and dad and dead brother, how could he even start a family let alone city?

God made Eve from Adams rib while he slept, could he really have done? I know you could say genetic engineering could do this, its just how the story was portrayed it seems as if it was as quick as a humans natural sleep, generally 8 hrs or so.
There's many possibilites left open to interpretation, as it doesn't say how lond the whole matter took, but why doesn't the bible state such important things in detail?

God gives us a life of freedom but expects praise and says that if we don't follow his only son we go to hell, why give us freedom and yet make sure we understand that hell looms over us if we don't follow Jesus?

I'm not a well read person on the bible and can only relate to the way the stories I've heard have been put across, maybe I've misread the interpretations?

If I knew, I wouldn't be here!

It is my personal belief that our Creator desires us to ask questions, which to me is why so many of the details are left unsaid. Judaism comprehends this beautifully, and throughout the centuries, it seems that the Jewish people, more than any other people of the Book, have elaborated on the Tanakh with commentaries on commentaries on commentaries. A really good book that addresses the importance of asking questions, even and perhaps especially when they seem heretical, is "The Gospel According to Moses". Think about how relationships are formed. They are formed by asking questions. You get to know a stranger either by verbally questioning them or observing them and questioning their behavior in your mind. Life without questions is dull and routine. May you always be inquisitive and may you be blessed with answers.

messianicmystic said:

Regarding animals being created after man, I have never heard this before.

For example, one source claims that the first man had a tail like an animal. Another says that before Enosh's generation, men's faces were like those of monkeys. Based on my studies, I feel safe saying that this is definitely a possibility based on the Hebrew text.

Finally, regarding the Nephilim, I believe the passage in Genesis 6, other passages in the Tanakh and Apostolic Writings, the Book of Enoch, and the Book of Jubilees, among others have been either ignored, misinterpreted, or otherwise skirted, because a proper understanding of these passages and books leads to an amazingly powerful and encompassing foundation of historical understanding by which one comes to see that truth is most assuredly stranger than fiction.

Also, please do not use the little bowing guy in responses to me. It makes me uncomfortable. I do appreciate the encouragement, though. Thanks.

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My appologies and you're quite welcome... no more bowing guy ... I guess it depends which part of Gen you're reading at the time LOL...

GE 1:11-12, 26-27 Trees were created before man was created.
GE 2:4-9 Man was created before trees were created.
GE 1:20-21, 26-27 Birds were created before man was created.
GE 2:7, 19 Man was created before birds were created.
GE 1:24-27 Animals were created before man was created.
GE 2:7, 19 Man was created before animals were created.
GE 1:26-27 Man and woman were created at the same time.
GE 2:7, 21-22 Man was created first, woman sometime later.

Interesting!... where did you find information about the tails and such? That's something I would like to read... and it rather takes into question the in G-d's image thing as well....

Stranger than fiction is a good way to phrase that.... other than the genesis quote I believe I have read a couple of others from enoch and jubilees.... doubtless not all of them I'm sure.... what other references could you give me on that one?

So, just to satisfy my own curiosity (you may answer in private message if you prefer), but what exactly do YOU believe regarding the Nephilim, Seraphim, etc.?

tiano said:

The Sumerians ere the human civilisation that left the clay tablets of their history which refers to the alien help. The aliens were the Annunaki and the planet they came from was called Nibiru.

I haven't read the bible but have heard stories and watched documentaries on bible stories and some of the points I find hard to believe are for example:

Adam and Eve are the first humans, they have Cain and Abel first, no other mention of any other humans yet in this part of the story. Cain then kills Abel and then gets on his toes to found a city.
No other humans mentioned, yet he's off to found a city..with who?

God made Eve from Adams rib while he slept, could he really have done? I know you could say genetic engineering could do this, its just how the story was portrayed it seems as if it was as quick as a humans natural sleep, generally 8 hrs or so.
There's many possibilites left open to interpretation, as it doesn't say how lond the whole matter took, but why doesn't the bible state such important things in detail?

God gives us a life of freedom but expects praise and says that if we don't follow his only son we go to hell, why give us freedom and yet make sure we understand that hell looms over us if we don't follow Jesus?

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The Anunnaki then... I wasn't sure which culture you were referencing.... but I personally have researched the Sumerian beliefs a LOT through the last few years because they have the first known written language and their "history of mankind" states pretty emphatically that we were genetically altered to work as miners for the Annunaki. I think it's fascinating that one of the oldest cultures (therefore some of the oldest stories) are so specific about something that ancient man should not have even had a thought about.... let alone to be able to go into such detail.

Have you read anything about the Indian Vimana? Something to look up if you haven't.... it speaks about "UFOs" as most people would describe them as well as weapons of mass destruction that sound an awful lot like nuclear bombs... :sarcastic curious no?

Adam and Eve had Cain and Abel... Cain slew Abel and was cast into the land of Nod and there he met his wife.... one of the oldest questions I have heard regarding Biblical veracity is who was Cain's wife.... some people would say his sister,,, but as you noted... there is no sister spoken of at that point.... I have a few "theories" of my own as to who she may have been, but if you want to know those I'll hold off a bit.... kinda long

I agree with your interpretation of the rib story... and like you said there's no way to know how long it took for this procedure... but sleeping could have meant sedation or sleep and if G-d is all-powerful, I'm sure he could make someone sleep as long as need be for this.... but why would he have to since pain didn't enter the world until after the first sin? Another one to think about

And the great ultimatum! Believe or burn.... all sounds rather pushy and non-all-loving to me :areyoucra I am an atheist by the way... should you want a more theological take on these questions I would ask one of the other members of the board, but I would be happy to discuss my own perspectives on the topics with you anytime ....

Thanks for the thoughtful reply Tiano!

tiano said:

The Sumerians ere the human civilisation that left the clay tablets of their history which refers to the alien help. The aliens were the Annunaki and the planet they came from was called Nibiru.

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Have you been reading Zecharia Sitchin?

sandy whitelinger said:

Have you been reading Zecharia Sitchin?

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Personally I have never read anything by Sitchin but a few quotes.... that post is exactly accurate as to what was found... I could post a few sites for you to go check out if you're interested in learning more?