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The Misunderstanding of Christianity in the Quran

Jerrell

Jerrell

Active Member
When Muhammud Founded Islam he was 40 Years old in 610 A.D. The Koran was written somewhere between 610 A.D. and 640 A.D. by his students. Islam did not exist 300 years before 610 A.D. It did not exist in 310 A.D. Arabs were pagans then.
 
Bishka

Bishka

Veteran Member
Jerrell said:
When Muhammud Founded Islam he was 40 Years old in 610 A.D. The Koran was written somewhere between 610 A.D. and 640 A.D. by his students. Islam did not exist 300 years before 610 A.D. It did not exist in 310 A.D. Arabs were pagans then.
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Where is your proof on this? Someone else contested it, anyways, I'm not going to get into it. Ooo, I just noticed the new flowers!!! (Sorry off-topic but I'm looking at the smiley box!:flower: :flower2: )
 
Booko

Booko

Deviled Hen
~Lord Roghen~ said:
The Quran, in various verses tells us that Jesus never said "I and my mother mary are deities and should be worshiped". In christianity, mary was never worshiped as a deity. Also, if you look historically at Christianity going from its beggining until the time of islam, you will see no doctrine stating the worship of mary. Does this mean that the Quran is wrong, or misunderstood. it declares it right there, but it could be a misinterpretation. Im sure though if you look at what early muyslims believed about us christians you may see that they believed that. amd seeing that no christians at the time professed this, the quran would be wrong in its statement.
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Or, as I pointed out in another thread, you have simply made the mistake of reading a text in a cultural and historical vacuum.
 
FerventGodSeeker

FerventGodSeeker

Believer
Jerrell said:
I did not come here to attack Catholocism. But when u build a Huge Statue of Mary, cover her in Gold, Put her on a King's Chairot, and gather all around her, yelling toward the statue. Crying for her, throuwing flowers at her. I consider that Worship. Especially when u bow down to the statue(I have seen pictures of even the Pope doing this). Did you know we are not supposed to even make a statue of ANYTHING in Heaven.
Exodus 20:4-Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

Is Mary in Heaven? Is Jesus in Heaven? Are the Angels in heaven? Are the Saints in heaven?
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Making a statue of someone to commemorate them is not worshipping them. Catholics honor and venerate the saints, sure, but we do not worship them as we worship God. Some might consider this to be splitting hairs, but there is a distinction, as Christians are to worship God alone.
As for Exodus 20:4, yes, God does not want Christians to make idolatrous images, obviously. However, that commandment is not an absolute prohibition against any image of any kind. If it were, then God would be contradicting Himself 5 chapters later when He commanded: "And you shall make two cherubim of gold; of hammered work you shall make them at the two ends of the mercy seat." Exodus 25:18 Several times in Scripture God actually commands the creation of heavenly images. Exodus 20 is a commandment against idolatry, but not against any and all physical representations of any kind. Creating statues or other images to commemorate pious saints, angels, even Christ, is not idolatry. By the way, yes, Mary is in heaven, yes Jesus is in heaven, yes the angels are in heaven, yes deceased saints are in heaven.

FerventGodSeeker

​
 
FerventGodSeeker

FerventGodSeeker

Believer
Mike182 said:
anjoying the view? :biglaugh:

when this verse is in context, are you sure it is not a reference to the "wrong doings" of the pagan practices of the time?

i don't think this is saying there is a queen (mary) in heaven

edit: i am unsure about where the idea of mary being called "queen of heaven" came from
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Without going into too much detail on this thread in my own words, this article is an extremely good explanation of why Catholics view Mary as the Queen of Heaven, the Queen Mother, etc.

http://www.catholic.net/rcc/Periodicals/Faith/00MarApr/Mariology.html


FerventGodSeeker
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Jerrell

Jerrell

Active Member
it is commanded that you make no Statues at all, wether u worship them or not, you are still not supposed to build the statue. Now though u may not Worship Mary, the Catholic Church allows their churches in America(N and S) and in Asia and Africa to do so.

P.S.-Just becuase someone contradicts me doesn't mean i'm wrong. I study religions, that is my proof, he is 300 years off, I know for a Fact it is around year 610, look it up on www.wikipedia.com type in Islam.
 
Jerrell

Jerrell

Active Member
FerventGodSeeker said:


Making a statue of someone to commemorate them is not worshipping them. Catholics honor and venerate the saints, sure, but we do not worship them as we worship God. Some might consider this to be splitting hairs, but there is a distinction, as Christians are to worship God alone.
As for Exodus 20:4, yes, God does not want Christians to make idolatrous images, obviously. However, that commandment is not an absolute prohibition against any image of any kind. If it were, then God would be contradicting Himself 5 chapters later when He commanded: "And you shall make two cherubim of gold; of hammered work you shall make them at the two ends of the mercy seat." Exodus 25:18 Several times in Scripture God actually commands the creation of heavenly images. Exodus 20 is a commandment against idolatry, but not against any and all physical representations of any kind. Creating statues or other images to commemorate pious saints, angels, even Christ, is not idolatry. By the way, yes, Mary is in heaven, yes Jesus is in heaven, yes the angels are in heaven, yes deceased saints are in heaven.

FerventGodSeeker


​
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First, u said you dont worship them as u worship God, but still if u worship it in any way you are sinning and contradicting the Bilbe. Second. God is not talking to the Christians but he is talking to the Jews.

The Cerebrums were built onto the Ark of the Convenant, this was not a object of wroship, nor a object of a creature, the cerrebrums were part of the ark, not the whole thing.

The BIble is clear to not make any Graven images of anything in heaven, for any type of part in Worship.
 
Jerrell

Jerrell

Active Member
Mary is not the Queen of Heaven according to the Bible. This is man's tradition and Jesus taught aginast this

Mr 7:9 - And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
The Queen of Heaven of the BIble is a flase god that the children of Israel worshipped, she was the tranformed Ishtar or Isis of Egypt. As Languages change so does her name. Mary the Queen of Heaven is just Isis called Mary, who is the Queen of Heaven.

Mary is no Queen, this is not taught in the BIble, if it is not taught ANYWHERE in the BIble then you dont concider it!

These are vereses that talked about the Queen of Heaven.

Jer 7:18 - Show Context
The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.
Jer 44:17 - Show Context But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil.
Jer 44:18 - Show Context But since we left off to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, we have wanted all things, and have been consumed by the sword and by the famine.
Jer 44:19 - Show Context And when we burned incense to the queen of heaven, and poured out drink offerings unto her, did we make her cakes to worship her, and pour out drink offerings unto her, without our men ‡181?
Jer 44:25 - Show Context Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, saying; Ye and your wives have both spoken with your mouths, and fulfilled with your hand, saying, We will surely perform our vows that we have vowed, to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her: ye will surely accomplish your vows, and surely perform your vows.

Think about it, dont reject the commandment of God just to keep your tradition.
 
Bishka

Bishka

Veteran Member
Jerrell said:
Mary is not the Queen of Heaven according to the Bible. This is man's tradition and Jesus taught aginast this

Mr 7:9 - And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
The Queen of Heaven of the BIble is a flase god that the children of Israel worshipped, she was the tranformed Ishtar or Isis of Egypt. As Languages change so does her name. Mary the Queen of Heaven is just Isis called Mary, who is the Queen of Heaven.

Mary is no Queen, this is not taught in the BIble, if it is not taught ANYWHERE in the BIble then you dont concider it!

These are vereses that talked about the Queen of Heaven.

Jer 7:18 - Show Context
The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.
Jer 44:17 - Show Context But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil.
Jer 44:18 - Show Context But since we left off to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, we have wanted all things, and have been consumed by the sword and by the famine.
Jer 44:19 - Show Context And when we burned incense to the queen of heaven, and poured out drink offerings unto her, did we make her cakes to worship her, and pour out drink offerings unto her, without our men ‡181?
Jer 44:25 - Show Context Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, saying; Ye and your wives have both spoken with your mouths, and fulfilled with your hand, saying, We will surely perform our vows that we have vowed, to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her: ye will surely accomplish your vows, and surely perform your vows.

Think about it, dont reject the commandment of God just to keep your tradition.
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Do you have anything else to say other then telling the Catholics that they are wrong? Let them tell you what they believe and what they KNOW to be their core doctrine. Don't tell them what they know, or try to tell them what you think they know, because, you'll probably get it wrong.
 
Nehustan

Nehustan

Well-Known Member
The 'Ave Maria'...

"Hail Mary,
Full of Grace,
The Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women,
and blessed is the fruit
of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary,
Mother of God,
pray for us sinners now,
and at the hour of death. Amen."
 
SunMessenger

SunMessenger

Catholic
Regarding the Title of this section the following was also stated many years ago by Venerable Mary of Agreda - Seventeenth Century "It was revealed to me that through the intercession of the Mother of God, all heresies will disappear. This victory over heresies has been reserved by Christ for His Blessed Mother...Before the Second Coming of Christ, Mary must, more than ever, shine in mercy, might and grace in order to bring unbelievers into the Catholic Faith." Be Well and God Bless...
 
ΩRôghênΩ

ΩRôghênΩ

Disciple of Light
The 'Ave Maria'...

"Hail Mary,
Full of Grace,
The Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women,
and blessed is the fruit
of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary,
Mother of God,
pray for us sinners now,
and at the hour of death.Amen."
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people can be holy
she was mother of god on earth, not god in heaven. this does not make her a deity
 
Bishka

Bishka

Veteran Member
Mike182 said:
sorry, i just find this hillarious :biglaugh:
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As do I. I've taken one class and have studied a bit on my own to know that the Catholics do not worship Mary, nor any of the other Saints. They venerate(is that the right word?) them, because of their greatness but do not worship them, that's just silly.
 
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