• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

John 5:36-40 (Sola Scriptura)

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Thats what we disagree on. A christian does not need to own a bible to know he is saved. Without the Bible we wouldnt "know" about salvation. Salvation existed long before the bible was written.

My point: Salvation existed before the bible was written. Jesus existed before the Bible. A Christians salvation is through Christ. That is what the Bibke is "about"; it is not Christ Himself.
--
The sacraments are based on scripture. They are not the Bible...the sacraments are "in" the Bible...whej i was baptised i wasnt baptised in the bible i was baptised in the spirit.

The source is the Father. The salvation is Through Christ. The relationship between believer and Christ is married by the Holy Spirit. Your guidence is by the The Holy Spirit.

Of course as you said you know the differnence if holy spirit is talking by the bible "and" it is not the source if your salvation...Christ is.

I dont understand how you dont get that.




Jeremiah 1:1 The words of Jeremiah*+the son of Hil·ki′ah,* one ofthe priests that were in An′a·thoth+ in the land of Benjamin;+2 to whom the word of Jehovah occurred in the days of Jo·si′ah +the son of A′mon,+the king of Judah, in the thirteenth year of his reigning.+

Ezekiel 1:
1 Now it came about in the thirtieth year, in the fourth [month], on the fifth [day] of the month, while I was in the midst of the exiled+ people by the river Che′bar,+ that the heavens were opened+ and I began to see visions of God.*+2 On the fifth [day] of the month, that is, [in] the fifth year of the exile of King Je·hoi′a·chin,*+3 the word of Jehovah occurred+ specifically to Ezekiel+


Isaiah 1:
10 Hear the word of Jehovah,+YOU dictators+of Sod′om.+ Give ear to the law of our God, YOU people of Go·mor′rah.

Amos 3:1
3 Hear this word that Jehovah has spoken concerning YOU,+ O sons of Israel, concerning the whole family that I brought up out of the land of Egypt,+ saying,


Zechariah 1:1 In the eighth month in the second year of Da·ri′us,+ the word of Jehovah came to the prophet Zech·a·ri′ah*+ son of Ber·e·chi′ah son of Id′do, saying: 2 “Jehovah grew greatly indignant at your fathers.

2 Samuel (‎40 occurrences)
4 On that very night, the word of Jehovah came to Nathan, saying: 5 “Go and say to my servant David, ‘This is what Jehovah says: “Should you build me a house to dwell in?+

Exodus 4:22 You must say to Phar′aoh,This is what Jehovah says:Israel is my son, my firstborn.

Haggai 1:2 This is what Jehovah of armies says, ‘These people say, “The time has not yet come for the house* of Jehovah to be built.”’”*+

Every book of the bible is the Word of Jehovah. And if Jesus words are correct (No one can come to Jesus unless he has been drawn by the Father) how can you really be sure that you know Jesus if you dont even know who's Word the bible really is???



i agree with you. But who actually gives out the holy spirit?

According to Jesus, it is Jehovah or the Father who gives holy spirit:

John 14:26 But the helper, the holy spirit, which the Father will send in my name, that one will teach you all things and bring back to your minds all the things I told you.

If your belief is that Jesus sends the holy spirit, where did that idea originate from?




And what if what you think you know about Christ is the opposite of what the scriptures actually say? Let me give you an example....
Eve was told that she would not die if she ate from the tree. But Gods word stated "in the day you eat from it you will surely die" .
So Gods Word was true and correct. Eve did die. But she was told that she would not die. Where did the false information come from??? Wasnt it Satan the devil? Are you sure that the information you've been has not come from such a source? Your views do seem to contradict Gods Word afterall.
This is what the Apostle Paul said to Timothy as recorded in the bible: 2Timothy 3: 14 You, however, continue in the things that you learned and were persuaded to believe,+ knowing from whom you learned them 15 and that from infancy+ you have known the holy writings,+ which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus

According to this, it is the 'holy writings' which makes us 'wise for salvation' because they can instill faith in a believer....and there salvation really comes from 'faith'

This goes back to what I originally asked you about.... how do you even know what the sacraments are and what they mean? Isnt it the bible, the holy writings which lay them out and explain them???

Yes. The holy writings are what gave us faith in Christ because they record his life and teachings. Those holy writings are the source of our knowledge.



I would actually take it a step further and say that our relationship with Christ depends on our relationship with Jehovah.

John 6;65 He went on to say: “This is why I have said to you, no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”"

It seems fairly reasonable to conclude here that we must first know the Father.

I certainly agree though that the bible should not become an idol to be worshiped. But nor should we be worshiping Jesus either.
 
SW, I want to revisit this post of yours since you erroneously continue to claim I believe things which I do not believe.
Yes, as Jesus said and I believe, HE is "the way, the truth, and the life".
Jesus, did not say that the Scriptures are HIM or GOD. John 5:39 says in searching the scriptures, one finds they testify of HIM.
The "eternal life" one is promised scripturally is only secured by Faith in what HE CAME to do and did accomplish--again recorded in the Scriptures..
Paul (Acts17:11)acknowledged that the Scriptures showed that what GOD had inspired the prophets to write(Scriptures) was the authority of/from GOD to believe the spoken messages GOD.
Rom.10: (5)10-17, reveals that it is Moses' writing(by commandment of GOD to write) which one's heart receives by Faith unto righteousness and confesses unto salvation.
Again that "Faith" is in John 3:16--the belief in the sacrifice of GOD'S SON for the propitiation of sins.
This is seen in John 5:37-47(as well and you posted.)"
For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?"
Heb.4:2, affirms the GOD is NOT a respecter of person. HIS salvation is available to all who chose to have GOD as their GOD in Love and Obedience. "For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

1Pet.1:18-20, "Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,"

John 17:5, affirms Peter's above. "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was."

If you have problems with those verses it is because of your own assessment. The Scriptures agree with the teachings of Jesus as HE taught having received from the Father.
Heb.4:2, affirms the GOD is NOT a respecter of person. HIS salvation is available to all who chose to have GOD as their GOD in Love and Obedience.

YHWH-YaH INDEED HAD RESPECT FOR THE MAN ABLE AND UNTO HIS OFFERING
(Gen 4:4 KJV) And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:

"For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

ISRAEL THAT WAS NOT ISRAEL NEVER HAD THE FAITH OF CHRIST SO THE WORD PREACHED DID NOT PROFIT THEM.

(Exo 4:22 KJV) And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith YHWH-YaH, Israel is my Son, even my firstborn:
(Exo 4:23 KJV) And I say unto thee, Let my Son go, that he may serve me: and if thou refuse to let him go, behold, I will slay thy son, even thy firstborn.

(Rom 9:6 KJV) Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

THE ISRAEL OF GOD THE FIRST BORN SON OF YHWH-YaH HAD THE FAITH OF CHRIST

(Gal 2:16 KJV) Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

(Rom 10:17 KJV) So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

willyah
 
Last edited:

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
Thats what we disagree on. A christian does not need to own a bible to know he is saved. Without the Bible we wouldnt "know" about salvation. Salvation existed long before the bible was written.

My point: Salvation existed before the bible was written. Jesus existed before the Bible. A Christians salvation is through Christ. That is what the Bibke is "about"; it is not Christ Himself.
--
The sacraments are based on scripture. They are not the Bible...the sacraments are "in" the Bible...whej i was baptised i wasnt baptised in the bible i was baptised in the spirit.

The source is the Father. The salvation is Through Christ. The relationship between believer and Christ is married by the Holy Spirit. Your guidence is by the The Holy Spirit.

Of course as you said you know the differnence if holy spirit is talking by the bible "and" it is not the source if your salvation...Christ is.

I dont understand how you dont get that.

Well let me put it this way....

There are entire nations of people who do not know Jesus at all and the reason for that is because they do not have the bible. So we cannot underestimate the power of the bible to bring people to Christ.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
My point is...of course the bible is important. It is not the holy spirit. Thats the difference.
Well let me put it this way....

There are entire nations of people who do not know Jesus at all and the reason for that is because they do not have the bible. So we cannot underestimate the power of the bible to bring people to Christ.
We disagree on something else. I believe people know God before they come to scripture. Their beliefs are confirmed by scripture. Its like someone already possessing the key. They know its important...whe n they see the lock/bible they know already the key fits..because God said so. The bible tells them how to place the key in the lock..but both has existed before instructions were even set out.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Another way to put it. Anyone can own and read the Bible. Many non christians have. The Bible is not what makes one a follower of Christ; it is the Holy Spirit. The Bible doesnt save anyone; Christ does.

If the Bible can save, anyone who reads it would be saved. Obviously, salvation goes beyond that of ink and paper. It is of the heart.

Well let me put it this way....
There are entire nations of people who do not know Jesus at all and the reason for that is because they do not have the bible. So we cannot underestimate the power of the bible to bring people to Christ.
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Well let me put it this way....

There are entire nations of people who do not know Jesus at all and the reason for that is because they do not have the bible. So we cannot underestimate the power of the bible to bring people to Christ.
The Apostle Paul disagrees. "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse".

Do you see the Bible in there? I don't. Nothing you are saying is supported in the Bible. No one had a Bible until around the 3rd century, Pegg. This is so simple it pains me to have to point this out.
 

sincerly

Well-Known Member
sincerly said:
SW, I want to revisit this post of yours since you erroneously continue to claim I believe things which I do not believe.
Yes, as Jesus said and I believe, HE is "the way, the truth, and the life".
Jesus, did not say that the Scriptures are HIM or GOD. John 5:39 says in searching the scriptures, one finds they testify of HIM.
The "eternal life" one is promised scripturally is only secured by Faith in what HE CAME to do and did accomplish--again recorded in the Scriptures..
Paul (Acts17:11)acknowledged that the Scriptures showed that what GOD had inspired the prophets to write(Scriptures) was the authority of/from GOD to believe the spoken messages GOD.
Rom.10: (5)10-17, reveals that it is Moses' writing(by commandment of GOD to write) which one's heart receives by Faith unto righteousness and confesses unto salvation.
Again that "Faith" is in John 3:16--the belief in the sacrifice of GOD'S SON for the propitiation of sins.
This is seen in John 5:37-47(as well and you posted.)"
For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?"
Heb.4:2, affirms the GOD is NOT a respecter of person. HIS salvation is available to all who chose to have GOD as their GOD in Love and Obedience. "For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

1Pet.1:18-20, "Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,"

John 17:5, affirms Peter's above. "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was."

If you have problems with those verses it is because of your own assessment. The Scriptures agree with the teachings of Jesus as HE taught having received from the Father.
Click to expand...

YHWH-YaH INDEED HAD RESPECT FOR THE MAN ABLE AND UNTO HIS OFFERING
(Gen 4:4 KJV) And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:



ISRAEL THAT WAS NOT ISRAEL NEVER HAD THE FAITH OF CHRIST SO THE WORD PREACHED DID NOT PROFIT THEM.

(Exo 4:22 KJV) And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith YHWH-YaH, Israel is my Son, even my firstborn:
(Exo 4:23 KJV) And I say unto thee, Let my Son go, that he may serve me: and if thou refuse to let him go, behold, I will slay thy son, even thy firstborn.

(Rom 9:6 KJV) Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

THE ISRAEL OF GOD THE FIRST BORN SON OF YHWH-YaH HAD THE FAITH OF CHRIST

(Gal 2:16 KJV) Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

(Rom 10:17 KJV) So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

willyah

Willyah, GOD had "respect" for Abel's sacrifice, True. However, GOD does not favor a believer over another (by gender, sex, social status, age, etc.). What is a problem is Sin/disobedience. Nothing that defiles will be allowed in the new earth/His Kingdom.

The Everlasting Gospel started off with "Israel" and will carry on to the coming again of Jesus Christ. They understood it.

Rom.9:6-8.,"Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed."
Also, the circumcised are those of the heart. Rom.1:28-29; 3:29
 

sincerly

Well-Known Member
Pegg said:
Well let me put it this way....

There are entire nations of people who do not know Jesus at all and the reason for that is because they do not have the bible. So we cannot underestimate the power of the bible to bring people to Christ.

The Apostle Paul disagrees. "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse".

Do you see the Bible in there? I don't. Nothing you are saying is supported in the Bible. No one had a Bible until around the 3rd century, Pegg. This is so simple it pains me to have to point this out.

WW, Paul (acts 17:11)said this, "These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."
You need to update your information.
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Pegg said:
Well let me put it this way....

There are entire nations of people who do not know Jesus at all and the reason for that is because they do not have the bible. So we cannot underestimate the power of the bible to bring people to Christ.



WW, Paul (acts 17:11)said this, "These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."
You need to update your information.
Update my information? :) I quoted Paul. Did you read what he was referencing? Do you know what he was referring to?
 

Unification

Well-Known Member
SW, the false teachings got into the "doctrines taught", but the scriptures were not changed. Remember, GOD to Dan.7:25 said "think to change". Do you think that GOD/The Holy Spirit is not able to protect that which is written for the learning and admonition of HIS Believing people?

The early church fathers kept the people in darkness of the true Scriptural messages. Only what they said(concluded) was preached.

But yes, many spurious books were rejected.(and still certain versions still include some of them.---and more(Editing/redacting to make religiously correct for a "belief")are produced as time becomes short for Jesus' coming.

The letter kills but the Spirit gives life. I know that God wants everyone to seek Him, the only teacher, and stop exalting a book, and stop letting mankind oppress with their vain interpretations and ego-controlling nature. Everything we need to know is inside of us. I'm not sure what's worse, thinking a book is the only access to know God, or mankind teaching themselves and others. Being spiritual, it's easy to see that there are many things in the Greek scriptures that were never meant to be. When you truly know God and see Lord as he is, discernment of things is very easy. It's complete awareness. All should seek Him. To go against the "Bible" or the golden calf of this world, is to go against mankind, not God, and I'll choose the Spirit. Everyone should.
 
Pegg said:
Well let me put it this way....

There are entire nations of people who do not know Jesus at all and the reason for that is because they do not have the bible. So we cannot underestimate the power of the bible to bring people to Christ.



WW, Paul (acts 17:11)said this, "These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."
You need to update your information.
Peggy your reply shows the mind of Christ and how his mind functions in the son's and daughter's of YHWH in the one body of Christ the Son. The mind of Christ always points the body of Christ toward the written word of YHWH-YaH
Pegg said:
Well let me put it this way....

There are entire nations of people who do not know Jesus at all and the reason for that is because they do not have the bible. So we cannot underestimate the power of the bible to bring people to Christ.



WW, Paul (acts 17:11)said this, "These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."
You need to update your information.

Peggy your reply shows the mind of Christ and how his minds functions in the sons and daughters of YeHoWaH-YaH Shaddai who are the one body of Christ the Son.

(2 Cor 6:18 KJV) And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith YHWH-YaH Shaddai.

The mind of Christ always points the body of Christ toward the written word of YHWH-YaH.

The mind of Christ Jesus always refers to the words in the Book written by his Father and YHWH-YaH.

(Exo 32:32 KJV) Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.

(Exo 32:33 KJV) And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

(Exo 24:12 KJV) And YHWH-YaH said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them.

The Book written by YHWH-YaH was given to the firstborn Son Israel upon their deliverance from Egypt.

(Exo 4:22 KJV) And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith YHWH-YaH Israel is my son, even my firstborn:

willyah



Pegg said:
Well let me put it this way....

There are entire nations of people who do not know Jesus at all and the reason for that is because they do not have the bible. So we cannot underestimate the power of the bible to bring people to Christ.



WW, Paul (acts 17:11)said this, "These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."
You need to update your information.

Peggy I am having trouble posting so this may have already been posted or a portion of it. Sorry.
willyah

Peggy your reply shows the mind of Christ and how his minds functions in the sons and daughters of YeHoWaH-YaH Shaddai who are the one body of Christ the Son.

(2 Cor 6:18 KJV) And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith YHWH-YaH Shaddai.

The mind of Christ always points the body of Christ toward the written word of YHWH-YaH.

The mind of Christ Jesus always refers to the words in the Book written by his Father and YHWH-YaH.

The LETTER that killeth is not the word of God rather the letter that killeth are the commandments of men.

(Mat 15:9 KJV) But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

(Mark 7:7 KJV) Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

(Titus 1:14 KJV) Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.

YHWH-YaH said in (Gen 2:17 KJV) But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.


The first letter ( word ) that killeth was the serpent say " ye shalt NOT died .

(Gen 3:4 KJV) And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:



REGARDING THE WRITTEN WORD OF YHWH-YaH

Moses said (Exo 32:32 KJV) Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.

(Exo 32:33 KJV) And YHWH-YaH said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

(Exo 24:12 KJV) And YHWH-YaH said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them.

The Book written by YHWH-YaH was given to the firstborn Son Israel upon their deliverance from Egypt.

(Exo 4:22 KJV) And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith YHWH-YaH Israel is my Son, even my firstborn:

(John 1:17 KJV) For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

The words of the law written by YHWH-YaH where given to the prophet Moses to copy and give to Israel the firstborn Son of YHWH-YaH; whereas the written words of YHWH-YaH regarding grace and truth came by Jesus Christ as referred to in the scriptures and was meant for Israel and the proselyte Gentiles and in (Acts 28:28 KJV) Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.

Acts 28:28 is 64 AD.

(Deu 18:17 KJV) And YHWH-YaH said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken.

The " they " in Deu 18:17 are that part of Israel who claim to be Israel but are not Israel.(Rom 9:6 KJV) Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

(Deu 18:18 KJV) I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee ( Moses) , and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

The " them " of Due 18:18 are the Israel of YHWH-YaH. (Gal 6:16 KJV) And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

The " his " in Deu 18:18 is Christ Jesus as declared by Peter in (Acts 3:22 KJV).
Peter refers to Deu 18:18 in (Acts 3:22 KJV) For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall YHWH-YaH your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.

(Acts 3:22 KJV) For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall YHWH-YaH
your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me ( Moses) ; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.


............THE WORDS OF THE LAW GIVEN TO MOSES, THE WORDS OF GRACE AND TRUTH CAME BY THE PROPHET JESUS CHRIST TO GIVE THE ISRAEL OF GOD AND THEY WOULD GIVE TO THE GENTILES AS WAS DONE BY THE APOSTLE PAUL.

(Rom 11:13 KJV) For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

YHWH-YaH gave Moses His written words FROM HIS BOOK as tables of stone, and a law, and commandments that YHWH-YaH wrote and not Moses wrote. Moses merely copied what YHWH-YAH ALREADY WROTE IN HIS BOOK.

(Exo 24:12 KJV) And the LORD said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them.

(Deu 18:19 KJV) And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

(Deu 18:20 KJV) But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.

Death is in the words of those who speak words not from the written word of God such as were the words "NOT" (Gen 3:4 KJV) And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall "not" surely die:

(Deu 18:21 KJV) And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which YHWH-YaH hath not spoken?

(Deu 18:22 KJV) When a prophet speaketh in the name of YHWH-YaH, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which YHWH-YaH hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

Never be afraid of a false prophet since what he says is not written scripture and has no life; rather fear disobedience to the written words of scripture that are YHWH-YaH's BOOK (Gen 2:17 KJV) But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

FATHER OF LIES

(Prov 30:5 KJV) Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.

(Prov 30:6 KJV) Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

Satan is the father of all lies (John 8:44 KJV) Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

willyah

.
 
Last edited:

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
Thats what we disagree on. A christian does not need to own a bible to know he is saved. Without the Bible we wouldnt "know" about salvation. Salvation existed long before the bible was written.

if that were true, then mankind would not be burdened with sin and death. Yet death has been our existence since Adam and Eve were expelled from Eden.

So how can salvation have existed since before the bible was written?

In the hebrew scriptures the servants of Jehovah believed salvation to be deliverance from death itself.
Job 14:13-15 O that in the Grave* you would conceal me, That you would hide me until your anger passes by,
That you would set a time limit for me and remember me! 14 If a man dies, can he live again? I will wait all the days of my compulsory service Until my relief comes.15 You will call, and I will answer you. You will long* for the work of your hands.


And the Christians also believed that salvation would mean the end of death itself:
Jesus made this clear when he brought the dead back to life in the flesh and he said:
John 11:25 Jesus said to her: “I am the resurrection and the life.+ The one who exercises faith in me, even though he dies, will come to life;

“The last enemy, death, is to be brought to nothing.”—1 CORINTHIANS 15:26.


According to the bible, we can only really claim that salvation has been granted when death is no more.
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
Peggy your reply shows the mind of Christ and how his mind functions in the son's and daughter's of YHWH in the one body of Christ the Son. The mind of Christ always points the body of Christ toward the written word of YHWH-YaH

.

Thankyou kjv.... Gods Word Is Alive!

:)
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
My point is...of course the bible is important. It is not the holy spirit. Thats the difference.

according the Apostle Peter, the bible is a product of the holy spirit
2 Peter 1:21 For prophecy was at no time brought by man’s will,+ but men spoke from God as they were moved* by holy spirit.

And if ever you doubt that the scriptures are a product of holy spirit, you should consider the cousel of the scriptures on the matter:

Acts 28:
25 So because they disagreed with one another, they began to leave, and Paul made this one comment:
“The holy spirit aptly spoke through Isaiah the prophet to your forefathers,

Acts 1:16 “Men, brothers, it was necessary for the scripture to be fulfilled that the holy spirit spoke prophetically through David about Judas...

2 Samuel 23:2 The spirit of Jehovah spoke through me;+ His word was on my tongue.

Mark 12:36 By the holy spirit,+ David himself said, ‘Jehovah* said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand until I put your enemies beneath your feet.”’+

2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is inspired of God


This is why we JW's take the scriptures as the absolute authority on all matters. The bible is not the work of any man...it is the work of the holy spirit. God used his holy spirit to transmit his own thoughts and views to us.


Let me ask, do you pray to God? Im sure you do... and im also sure you dont hear a voice speaking back to you in reply.
But if ever you want to hear God speak back to you, you need to pick up your bible and start reading it because when you do you are letting God speak to you. And if you accept what he says, you will believe what is written and take it into your heart and allow yourself to be molded by Gods thoughts.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
(Product of and is are two different things. I am not belittling the bible. Im saying the holy spirit Is not the bible.

There is nothing philosophical about that statement. All my comments are in parenthesis since im on my phone)

according the Apostle Peter, the bible is a product of the holy spirit
2 Peter 1:21 For prophecy was at no time brought by man’s will,+ but men spoke from God as they were moved* by holy spirit.

And if ever you doubt that the scriptures are a product of holy spirit, you should consider the cousel of the scriptures on the matter:

Acts 28:
25 So because they disagreed with one another, they began to leave, and Paul made this one comment:
“The holy spirit aptly spoke through Isaiah the prophet to your forefathers,

Acts 1:16 “Men, brothers, it was necessary for the scripture to be fulfilled that the holy spirit spoke prophetically through David about Judas...

2 Samuel 23:2 The spirit of Jehovah spoke through me;+ His word was on my tongue.

Mark 12:36 By the holy spirit,+ David himself said, ‘Jehovah* said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand until I put your enemies beneath your feet.”’+

2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is inspired of God

(These verses are saying the spirit did these things not the bible)



This is why we JW's take the scriptures as the absolute authority on all matters. The bible is not the work of any man...it is the work of the holy spirit. God used his holy spirit to transmit his own thoughts and views to us.

(Im not saying it is not sacred. Im daying you are saved by faith in Christ. This salvation existed long before scripture was created.)



Let me ask, do you pray to God? Im sure you do... and im also sure you dont hear a voice speaking back to you in reply.
But if ever you want to hear God speak back to you, you need to pick up your bible and start reading it because when you do you are letting God speak to you. And if you accept what he says, you will believe what is written and take it into your heart and allow yourself to be molded by Gods thoughts.

(Lets not make this personal. I have my own religious views. Actually I have a friend who is a JW and she respects my views and we want to learn from each other. Another couple JW asked me about my views...she took the weight from her and was concerned about others.

All christians should do this.

Anyway my point the bible is not Christ, the Word is. The Word is of His Father. We "know of" this in the bible. I do not worship the bible...no other christian I know does. I dont see why you do?)
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
You dont get it. The physical, leatherbound, red and black inked book cannot save you. If you believe it does you are replacing God with words...hence my OP.

The apostles were saved and they did not have scripture.
Abraham was saved and He did not have scripture
Gosh who else...milions of people are -saved by Christ-

Christ saves you---why is that hard to understand as a christian?

if that were true, then mankind would not be burdened with sin and death. Yet death has been our existence since Adam and Eve were expelled from Eden.

So how can salvation have existed since before the bible was written?

In the hebrew scriptures the servants of Jehovah believed salvation to be deliverance from death itself.
Job 14:13-15 O that in the Grave* you would conceal me, That you would hide me until your anger passes by,
That you would set a time limit for me and remember me! 14 If a man dies, can he live again? I will wait all the days of my compulsory service Until my relief comes.15 You will call, and I will answer you. You will long* for the work of your hands.


And the Christians also believed that salvation would mean the end of death itself:
Jesus made this clear when he brought the dead back to life in the flesh and he said:
John 11:25 Jesus said to her: “I am the resurrection and the life.+ The one who exercises faith in me, even though he dies, will come to life;

“The last enemy, death, is to be brought to nothing.”—1 CORINTHIANS 15:26.


According to the bible, we can only really claim that salvation has been granted when death is no more.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Also if the Bible itself saves why arent people who are reading it all be saved? Salvation comes from the heart. Thats when the bible becomes your right hand man because Chrizt saved you first. You were born again and the bible is no longer words but His Word.
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
You dont get it. The physical, leatherbound, red and black inked book cannot save you. If you believe it does you are replacing God with words...hence my OP.

of course the physical copy of a book cannot save you.... but what is written in the bible are Gods words and his instruction to us. So you need to know what it says, dont you think?

The apostles were saved and they did not have scripture.

the apostles did have the scriptures.... they quoted from them very frequently and their teachings are based on the scriptures. Paul requested Timothy to bring the scritpures to him while he was in prison:
2Timothy 4:13 When you come, bring the cloak I left at Tro′as with Carpus, and the scrolls, especially the parchments.

and those who became believers in Borea were checking the scriptures to see if Pauls teachings were in harmony with what they were hearing from him:
Acts 17:11 Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thes·sa·lo·ni′ca, for they accepted the word with the greatest eagerness of mind, carefully examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.

And the account about Phillip who taught from the scroll of Isaiah shows that the christians most certainly had scriptures and used them and taught from them under the direction of the holy spirit:

27 With that he got up and went, and look! an E·thi·o′pi·an eunuch,* ...+ 28 and he was returning and was sitting in his chariot, reading aloud the prophet Isaiah. 29 So the spirit said to Philip: “Go over and approach this chariot.” 30 Philip ran alongside and heard him reading aloud Isaiah the prophet, and he said: “Do you actually know* what you are reading?” 31 He said: “Really, how could I ever do so unless someone guided me?” So he urged Philip to get on and sit down with him.32 Now this was the passage of Scripture that he was reading: “Like a sheep he was brought to the slaughter, and like a lamb that is silent before its shearer, so he does not open his mouth.+33 During his humiliation, justice was taken away from him.+ Who will tell the details of his generation? Because his life is taken away from the earth.”+
34 The eunuch then said to Philip: “I beg you, about whom does the prophet say this? About himself or about some other man?” 35 Philip began to speak, and starting with this scripture, he declared to him the good news about Jesus.


So yes, the christians had scriptures and it was those very scriptures which informed them that Jesus was the Messiah.

Abraham was saved and He did not have scripture
Gosh who else...milions of people are -saved by Christ-

Christ saves you---why is that hard to understand as a christian?

Its not enough to claim that Christ saves us.
How does he save us? From what does he save us?

You need to clarify what salvation is and how we attain it.
 

Unification

Well-Known Member
Peggy your reply shows the mind of Christ and how his mind functions in the son's and daughter's of YHWH in the one body of Christ the Son. The mind of Christ always points the body of Christ toward the written word of YHWH-YaH


Peggy your reply shows the mind of Christ and how his minds functions in the sons and daughters of YeHoWaH-YaH Shaddai who are the one body of Christ the Son.

The mind of Christ always points the body of Christ toward the written word of YHWH-YaH.

(2 Cor 6:18 KJV) And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith YHWH-YaH Shaddai.

(1 Cor 2:16 KJV) For who hath known the mind of YHWH-YaH, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

(2 Tim 3:15 KJV) And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.


willyah



.
according the Apostle Peter, the bible is a product of the holy spirit
2 Peter 1:21 For prophecy was at no time brought by man’s will,+ but men spoke from God as they were moved* by holy spirit.

And if ever you doubt that the scriptures are a product of holy spirit, you should consider the cousel of the scriptures on the matter:

Acts 28:
25 So because they disagreed with one another, they began to leave, and Paul made this one comment:
“The holy spirit aptly spoke through Isaiah the prophet to your forefathers,

Acts 1:16 “Men, brothers, it was necessary for the scripture to be fulfilled that the holy spirit spoke prophetically through David about Judas...

2 Samuel 23:2 The spirit of Jehovah spoke through me;+ His word was on my tongue.

Mark 12:36 By the holy spirit,+ David himself said, ‘Jehovah* said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand until I put your enemies beneath your feet.”’+

2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is inspired of God


This is why we JW's take the scriptures as the absolute authority on all matters. The bible is not the work of any man...it is the work of the holy spirit. God used his holy spirit to transmit his own thoughts and views to us.


Let me ask, do you pray to God? Im sure you do... and im also sure you dont hear a voice speaking back to you in reply.
But if ever you want to hear God speak back to you, you need to pick up your bible and start reading it because when you do you are letting God speak to you. And if you accept what he says, you will believe what is written and take it into your heart and allow yourself to be molded by Gods thoughts.
You dont get it. The physical, leatherbound, red and black inked book cannot save you. If you believe it does you are replacing God with words...hence my OP.

The apostles were saved and they did not have scripture.
Abraham was saved and He did not have scripture
Gosh who else...milions of people are -saved by Christ-

Christ saves you---why is that hard to understand as a christian?

Any time I hear about the "bible" or scriptures being the Word of God, the Spirit within me is strongly repelled. Any time that I hear that the "bible" is the final authority... It is strongly disturbing. Man's invention. Evil. Any time that I hear the words, "prove it to me in bible or show me where it says this in the bible... Again, strong repel. Man's God is a book and themselves.

For those that truly do have the Spirit of God resting within them, we hear His voice speaking and see Him as He is. One becomes a complete shield of awareness, able to discern folly, silliness, ones own entire inner self, all of your surroundings.
 
Top