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Did Jesus say he was God???

M

mahasn ebn sawresho

Well-Known Member
Ingledsva said:
Actually we have discussed most of those verses and none of them actually say Jesus is God, nor does the Bible teach a trinity. :)

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Click to expand...
Yes, in terms of written text
There is no express provision in the
Trinity and also where there is no explicit provision also
But others have declared it ???
Jews ???
Gave evidence that he ( the same is said of God )
When the trial of Jesus
What is the charge against Jesus ??
The charge is that he is one God ??
That's why they gave to the trial and to Caesar
You know the Bible also
And the Trinity
Is from the words of Christ implicit
In the baptism of Christ by John the Baptist
The novel speaks of the existence of three
God
Jesus
Holy Spirit
This is a reference to the Trinity in the Bible
Church announced this interpretation
From the beginnings of Christianity emergence
And to this day, but there are recent trends to reject this interpretation
 
leibowde84

leibowde84

Veteran Member
Muffled said:
I have been asked to produce evidence of the divinity of Jesus. This is not just good evidence, it is overwhelming evidence.


Words of Jesus

John 14:9 ... he that hath seen me hath seen the Father
John 14:10 ... the words that I say unto you , I speak not from myself but from the Father abiding in Me doeth His works
John 14:11 ... I am in the Father and the Father in Me
John 10:30 I and My Father are one
John 10:33 ... thou being a man makest Thyself God
John 8:58 Jesus said ... before Abraham was born, Jah (Jah is the short form of Jeshovah)
John 8:59 They took up stones therefore to cast at Him
Mark 2:5 and Jesus seeing their faith saith ... thy sins are forgiven
Mark 2:7 ... who can forgive sins but one, even God
Mark 10:17 ... good teacher Mark 10:18 Why callest Me good? None is good save one, even God John 10:11 I am the good shepherd
Mat. 1:21 ... call his name Jesus; for it is He that shall save his people from their sins
Prophecies of the Messiah Jesus
Isa. 45:21 ... I, Jehovah? and there is no God else besides Me a just God and savior, there is none besides Me
Isa. 7:14 ... a sign: behold a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call His name Immanuel (God with us)
Isa 9:6 a son is given, and the government shall be upon His shoulder, and His name shall be called: Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace

Attributes of God
Omnipresence
John 1:46 Nathaniel saith unto Him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him Before Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee.
John 1:49 Nathaniel answered him, Rabbi thou art the Son of God; thou art King of Israel.
John 1:50 Jesus answered ... thou shalt see greater things than these
Omniscience
Luke 6:8 ...the Pharisees watched Him ... that they might find how to accuse him but He knew their thoughts
John 4:17 ... Thou sayest well, I have no husband
John 4:18 for thou hast had five husbands and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband
Omnipotence
Mark 4:41 ... Who then is this, that even the wind and the sea obey Him?

(He turned water into wine, multiplied bread, healed the sick and the blind, raised a man who was dead for four days)
Authority
Luke 4:36 ... for with authority and power He commandeth the unclean spirits and they come out
Mat 7:29 for He taught them as one having authority
Mat 28:18 ... Jesus ...spake... saying, all authority hath been given unto Me in heaven and on earth
The "I am" statements of Jesus
John 8:12 ... I am the light of the world
John 14:6 ... I am the way, the truth and the life
John 6:35 ... I am the bread of life
John 10:9 I am the door, by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved
John 11:25 ... I am the resurrection and the life
John 15:1 I am the true vine (this is a reference to Jesus being the Paraclete)
Click to expand...
The son of God couldn't be God if there is only one God. Also, logically, Jesus couldn't have claimed to be God, as he clearly said that he was the intermediary between God and man. He couldn't be both.

This might mean that he is supernatural, but he couldn't be the "one and true God." Am I wrong?
 
Muffled

Muffled

Jesus in me
leibowde84 said:
The son of God couldn't be God if there is only one God. Also, logically, Jesus couldn't have claimed to be God, as he clearly said that he was the intermediary between God and man. He couldn't be both.

This might mean that he is supernatural, but he couldn't be the "one and true God." Am I wrong?
Click to expand...

I believe you are basing your assumptions on a materialistic view. If there was a material God who had a material son, they would be two Gods. However the Father is not material and is everywhere so He can inhabit a human body as well as be eslewhere. Therefore He is one God whether in the body or not.

Again I believe this assumption comes from a materialistic viewpoint. A God who can't be seen is often not heard as weell but when Jesus speaks God speaks. God in the body of Jesus can do more to communicate with men than God out of the body and it is this communication capability that makes Him an intermediary.

I believe that Jesus is natural in some ways but possibly created in others. Yes, I believe you are wrong.
 
leibowde84

leibowde84

Veteran Member
Muffled said:
I believe you are basing your assumptions on a materialistic view. If there was a material God who had a material son, they would be two Gods. However the Father is not material and is everywhere so He can inhabit a human body as well as be eslewhere. Therefore He is one God whether in the body or not.

Again I believe this assumption comes from a materialistic viewpoint. A God who can't be seen is often not heard as weell but when Jesus speaks God speaks. God in the body of Jesus can do more to communicate with men than God out of the body and it is this communication capability that makes Him an intermediary.

I believe that Jesus is natural in some ways but possibly created in others. Yes, I believe you are wrong.
Click to expand...
So when Jesus is speaking to God, is he speaking to himself?
 
Ingledsva

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
mahasn ebn sawresho said:
Yes, in terms of written text
There is no express provision in the
Trinity and also where there is no explicit provision also
But others have declared it ???
Jews ???
Gave evidence that he ( the same is said of God )
When the trial of Jesus
What is the charge against Jesus ??
The charge is that he is one God ??
That's why they gave to the trial and to Caesar
You know the Bible also
And the Trinity
Is from the words of Christ implicit
In the baptism of Christ by John the Baptist
The novel speaks of the existence of three
God
Jesus
Holy Spirit
This is a reference to the Trinity in the Bible
Church announced this interpretation
From the beginnings of Christianity emergence
And to this day, but there are recent trends to reject this interpretation
Click to expand...

You are not correct.

All of these have been discussed here and NONE of them mean Jesus is God, or part of a trinity.

God, in the Bible, is God ALONE.

Holy Spirit is just the active power of God, - not a trinity being.

Jesus is claiming to be the awaited Messiah, - and an anointed Son of God, - like King David and others.

Also - there is absolutely NO mention of a trinity in the Bible. This is even acknowledge by the Christian Scholars. It is taught later.

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psychoslice

psychoslice

Veteran Member
Jesus knew that he was a man, he never said he was God, the Christ that he became was his inner connection with God, he called this connection the father, "the father and I are One".
 
leibowde84

leibowde84

Veteran Member
Ingledsva said:
You are not correct.

All of these have been discussed here and NONE of them mean Jesus is God, or part of a trinity.

God, in the Bible, is God ALONE.

Holy Spirit is just the active power of God, - not a trinity being.

Jesus is claiming to be the awaited Messiah, - and an anointed Son of God, - like King David and others.

Also - there is absolutely NO mention of a trinity in the Bible. This is even acknowledge by the Christian Scholars. It is taught later.

*
Click to expand...
Guys, be honest. Why does it matter if there is a trinity or if God is really Jesus' dad. Isn't the important part Jesus' lessons on how to live, instead of one's understanding of the nature of God?
 
M

mahasn ebn sawresho

Well-Known Member
Ingledsva said:
You are not correct.

All of these have been discussed here and NONE of them mean Jesus is God, or part of a trinity.

God, in the Bible, is God ALONE.

Holy Spirit is just the active power of God, - not a trinity being.

Jesus is claiming to be the awaited Messiah, - and an anointed Son of God, - like King David and others.

Also - there is absolutely NO mention of a trinity in the Bible. This is even acknowledge by the Christian Scholars. It is taught later.

*
Click to expand...
Dialogue is the exchange of ideas
Recent idea is not discussed ?
Why Jesus was presented to the Romanian court ??
What is the subject of the case ??
2. Yes, the Jews are waiting for Christ ??
But they are waiting for him in the concept last ??
3. They want that Jesus is working to restore the Kingdom of Dawood on earth ??
4. Jesus said ( My kingdom is not of this world )
5. During the life of Christ there was a Jewish political movement struggling to get rid of the Romanian control ??
(According to my information they are called ( the Maccabees ) )
This according to the Arabic translation of this political movement
7. Trinity is the underlying concepts of the Gospel
8. I and the Father are one
9. Baptism of Christ in the Jordan River
10. This implicit reference to the presence of three
11. essence of the Christian faith is ( God manifest in the flesh )
Christ 's body Humanist
God was manifest in the flesh
But this interpretation holds extremes
First of rejects that Christ is God
The second believes that Christ is God
 
Ingledsva

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
mahasn ebn sawresho said:
Dialogue is the exchange of ideas
Recent idea is not discussed ?
Why Jesus was presented to the Romanian court ??
What is the subject of the case ??

ING - Do you mean when he was brought before Caiaphas? Then Pilate?

The charge by Caiaphas was that he was a criminal, malefactor, rabble-rouser.

John 18:30 They answered and said unto him, If he were not a malefactor, we would not have delivered him up unto thee.

Pilate asked him if he was a Sovereign/King of the Jews, - and found him not guilty, - and tried to give him back to them. They insisted on his death, - saying -

John 19:7 The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself a Son of God.

NOTE - that - MADE HIMSELF - a Son of God.

ALL of them were Sons of God, - so I assume this anger is because he called himself special, an Anointed Son of God - like the Priests, Magistrates, Kings, and the awaited Messiah, - which he was claiming to be, - without their declaring him as such. He placed himself over them.

2. Yes, the Jews are waiting for Christ ??
But they are waiting for him in the concept last ??

ING - Not sure what you mean by that second sentence? They were awaiting the prophesized Messiah, - a special human, through the line of King David. The Messiah is NOT supposed to be a God.

3. They want that Jesus is working to restore the Kingdom of Dawood on earth ??

ING - Who - they?

4. Jesus said ( My kingdom is not of this world )

ING - According to the Bible, the Messiah was to bring about the end times, and final Judgment of everyone in Sheol, and those left on earth. According to the writings of Jesus' followers, - he is to sit in judgment, on a throne BESIDE GOD. Unless they are Pagan Polytheists, - Jesus can't be a second God in Heaven beside YHVH.

5. During the life of Christ there was a Jewish political movement struggling to get rid of the Romanian control ??
(According to my information they are called ( the Maccabees ) )
This according to the Arabic translation of this political movement

ING - There were many such movements. In fact, people claiming to be the Messiah, - and their rabble-rouser followers, - were killed before Jesus, and after.

7. Trinity is the underlying concepts of the Gospel

ING - No it isn't. He was a Jew. So only ONE God, and no trinity concept. And again - it is not taught in the Bible, nor did Jesus say such about himself.

8. I and the Father are one

ING - In the having the same ideals and goals sense. Working together. Such as someone saying - "I and the King are one." They obviously are not the King. They mean they work as one, with the same goals.

9. Baptism of Christ in the Jordan River

ING - That was his Holy Spirit/Power of YHVH, Anointing as Messiah, - a Son of God.

10. This implicit reference to the presence of three

ING - What reference? YHVH is ONE.
Holy Spirit is YHVH's working power, not a being.
Jesus is supposedly the awaited Messiah, - an Anointed - human - Son of God.

11. essence of the Christian faith is ( God manifest in the flesh )
Christ 's body Humanist
God was manifest in the flesh
But this interpretation holds extremes
First of rejects that Christ is God
The second believes that Christ is God
Click to expand...

Please click your expand to see all answers.

The Bible doesn't say Jesus is part of a trinity God. And later followers were split on Jesus as human, or part of Deity. It was decided at the Nicene Councils. Also, obviously there are still Christian denominations that do not believe Jesus was God.

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Ingledsva

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
leibowde84 said:
Guys, be honest. Why does it matter if there is a trinity or if God is really Jesus' dad. Isn't the important part Jesus' lessons on how to live, instead of one's understanding of the nature of God?
Click to expand...

Yes, but since they try to use these mistranslated/misunderstood verses against those of us whom are not Christians, ...

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M

mahasn ebn sawresho

Well-Known Member

https://www.religiousforums.com/members/ingledsva.33094/

John 19:7 The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself a Son of God.
to
Ingledsva
1 - Yes, this is why it is important to offer Christ to trial
2 - This is also why the Roman governor left the decision to the Jews
3. habits or Romanian traditions they were issuing an amnesty for criminals
4. Jews asked pardon for one of the thugs
5. did not give up their claim in the charge against Jesus
I hope that my words be clear
 
M

mahasn ebn sawresho

Well-Known Member
Triangulation
1 - Yes, I agree with you that there is no explicit provision
2. Triangulation is the interpretation of the Gospel
3. triangulation to discharge the unity of Christianity
4. Jehovah is the Hebrew name of God to
5. Jehovah's also present in Christianity
6. attend Jehovah in Christianity through education
7. Ten Commandments are the most important teachings of Jehovah
8. Christ did not break those teachings
 
M

mahasn ebn sawresho

Well-Known Member
Jews to this day do not believe in Christ
The reason they want to restore the Kingdom of Christ king Dawood ground on the world, not only in Palestine
This is the reason for rejection of the Jews , or some of them to Christ
Who said ( that his kingdom is not of this world )
Here got separation between Jews in the health and the health of his existence and also
 
Muffled

Muffled

Jesus in me
leibowde84 said:
Guys, be honest. Why does it matter if there is a trinity or if God is really Jesus' dad. Isn't the important part Jesus' lessons on how to live, instead of one's understanding of the nature of God?
Click to expand...
I believe it is a question of authority. Why would anyone listen to Jesus if He were just another man. I might as well listen to you instead, lol.
 
Muffled

Muffled

Jesus in me
Ingledsva said:
Yes, but since they try to use these mistranslated/misunderstood verses against those of us whom are not Christians, ...

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Click to expand...
I believe this is often the case that those who are ignoring God and worshipping Ashurah complain about prophets speaking against the Ashurah. It is the same way with modern Jews. They don't want to hear what God says but only what they wish to believe.
 
Ingledsva

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
mahasn ebn sawresho said:

John 19:7 The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself a Son of God.
to
Ingledsva
1 - Yes, this is why it is important to offer Christ to trial
2 - This is also why the Roman governor left the decision to the Jews
3. habits or Romanian traditions they were issuing an amnesty for criminals
4. Jews asked pardon for one of the thugs
5. did not give up their claim in the charge against Jesus
I hope that my words be clear
Click to expand...

I don't think you understand what I am saying.

A Son of God - is not God.

All Israel are Sons of God in the first place, and there came to be special Anointed Sons of God, such as Kings, Priests, Judges, etc.

Exo 4:22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:

"The attribute mashi'aḥ ("anointed") came to designate the king and the high priest and, by extension, other divinely appointed functionaries who were not anointed at all, e.g., the prophets (I Kings 19:16b, 19b; Isa. 61:1), the patriarchs (Ps. 105:15), and even foreign kings (I Kings 19:15; Isa. 45:1; cf. II Kings 8:7)."

Anointing


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