Yes, I see what you are saying. I do not believe I was at the Grand Council, as I do not believe I existed even as a spirit sibling or being before I was conceived. But that is just my belief, I believe God created man when He created Adam, and that is when Adam's spirit or soul was created too, and when ours is, when we are conceived. I know it says God 'knew us before we were born', in psalms, but I interperet that as He looked down through time, as He is all knowing and know the end from the beginning, and is why He could make prophesies of the future when no one else's god could. Now as far as being perfect, which I call complete, I believe the Bible says "He has perfected forever those who are being made Holy." In otherwords, when I was saved I was made a new creature, spiritually, and given Christ's righteousness, and my sins remembered no more. So, in that sense I am already perfect, and complete in Him, yet still growing, but growing 'in grace'. Salvation being a free gift we accept on a certain day when we hear the good news, and not a process we work for or a reward we earn. My Bible says it is by believing on, trusting in what Jesus did, and not of works, works being a result. Being still in these fleshly bodies and with a still sinful nature, we are still growing, still sinning, still striving to be more like Him. I believe when we receive our glorified, uncorruptible, immortal, bodies, uncorruptible meaning sinless, we will be like Him fully, though now only in part in our spirit. Its like I believe sorta like you, but different. Not to debate what you believe, just to point out where, in a sense, I differ a bit. I enjoy the discussions, and even if they don't seem like important things to discuss, I think they somehow are, trivial as the differences in our beliefs seem to be. Anyway, just wanted to share that, not to disagree, but to just talk about it a bit. Thanks.