Love your enemies

Johnlove · Jan 19, 2015

Khatru said:
Sorry, I nearly missed this one.

Interesting to see you define a true Christian by their actions.

A true Christian is as Jesus said.

(Matthew 7:21-23) “It is not those who say to me, ‘Lord, Lord’, who will enter the kingdom of Heaven but the person who does the will of My Father in Heaven. When the day comes many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, cast out demons in your name, work many miracles in your name?’ Then I shall tell them to their faces: I have never known you; away from me, you evil men!”

A true Christian is a follower of Jesus.

(1 John 2:6) “But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did”

Johnlove · Jan 19, 2015

Khatru said:
What law is he enforcing when he slaughters humanity?

If you don’t live his Word, you will be one of those slaughtered.

wgw · Jan 19, 2015

Khatru said:
Doesn't this whole "Love your enemies" thing get junked when Jesus returns at the head of God's armies to slaughter humanity?

I don't know where you're getting this from;
I suspect a literal reading of the Book of Revelation combined with snippets of fundamentalist chiliastic claptrap (the Darbyite Rapture nonsense), et cetera.

This is not the belief of the Orthodox Church, nor was it the belief of the early church fathers. Rather, we believe that at the Day of Judgement, Christ will return, the dead will be resurrected, and those who have chosen a heavenly life through virtuous conduct, faith in our Lord, and preparation through ascetic discipline, or some combination thereof (a grouping which can include righteous atheists) will dwell happily in the presence of God, whereas those who have chosen consistently choosing the path of evil and wickedness, by favoring this world and the things in it, to the world to come, by for example, not engaging in acts of charity, engaging in religious hypocrisy, et cetera, will be resurrected unto damnation.

Now the Orthodox Church does regard itself as the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic church, and as such, the surest vehicle for salvation, but certainly faith in Christ can't hurt, and we believe even some atheists may attain salvation through righteous conduct. Also, certainly its worth remembering what Kallistos Ware said, "The Gates of Hell are locked on the inside."

Spiderman · Jan 19, 2015

FearGod said:
They weren't true Christians.
The real Christian should care,love and support his enemy.

FearGod said:
I was just being sarcastic.

Sarcastic or not, you spoke the truth.

"Another was Maximilian Kolbe was aPolish Conventual Franciscan friar, who volunteered to die in place of a stranger in theNazi German death campofAuschwitz, located in German-occupiedPolandduring World War II.

According to an eye witness, an assistant janitor at that time, in his prison cell, Kolbe led the prisoners in prayer. Each time the guards checked on him, he was standing or kneeling in the middle of the cell and looking calmly at those who entered. After two weeks of dehydration and starvation, only Kolbe remained alive. “The guards wanted the bunker emptied, so they gave Kolbe a lethal injection ofcarbolic acid. Kolbe is said to have raised his left arm and calmly waited for the deadly injection.”

Maximilian Kolbe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Johnlove · Jan 19, 2015

People don’t you all understand that Jesus told us to love, and not kill one’s enemies?

Do you ever go and read what Jesus said?

Do you know that unless you obey what Jesus said, that you will never enter the kingdom of God?

Blackmarch · Jan 21, 2015

SaintMatthew said:
“Love your enemies do good to those who persecute you Do not return evil for evil”-Christ

“Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.

On the contrary: "If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head." Romans 12:20

After Jesus was beaten to a bloody pulp, crowned with thorns, and nailed to a cross he demonstrated love for the people who did that to him praying, “Father forgive them for they know not what they do”.

Many Christians throughout history have followed this philosophy. Some of them while getting tortured and executed had last words of intercession begging God to forgive the people killing them. On this thread I will give some examples of people who followed this radical teaching of love.

One of them in our 20th century was Pope John Paul II.

After a Turkish gunman shot him multiple times with the obvious intention of killing him, he visited the man in prison. He considered his would be killer to be his brother:

“As the Pope arrived at the Agca's cell in Rebibbia Prison in Italy, he looked at his would-be killer in the eye, shook his hand, and Agca kissed John Paul II's hand. The two talked quietly for 21 minutes. John Paul said, "What we talked about will have to remain a secret between him and me, I spoke to him as brother whom I have pardoned, and who has my complete trust." After the meeting, the two shook hands and the Pope gave Agca a small gift in a white box, a rosary in silver and mother-of-pearl.” Love and Forgiveness in Governance: Exemplars: Pope John Paul II | Beyond Intractability

Thanks for sharing

Spiderman · Jan 21, 2015

And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him. Hebrews 11:6

Johnlove · Jan 21, 2015

Khatru said:
Various different opinions here among the believers.

"What we've got here is a failure to communicate."

That's what the man in Cool Hand Luke said.

I guess that's one of the problems with the god of the Bible; he's an appallingly bad communicator.

The CEO of any company needs to communicate effectively with his people. If a company is in a mess and people aren't getting the message then the buck stops with the CEO.

Why should an omniscient god be wholly exonerated of blame when he fails to ensure that his message is clearly understood? You've only got to look at the numerous different bibles that are out there to see that whatever the Bible god thinks, he doesn't seem too perturbed about the confused message he's sending out. Factor that in with thousands of different Christian denominations, sects and cults, all sure that their particular interpretation of whatever bible they choose to read is the true belief and you have a recipe for confusion.

The written word is not in any way the best way to communicate.

I believe that is why God gave us his Holy Spirit to teach us to come to know him.

By the way Jesus/Holy Spirit is a very good communicator.

Shiranui117 · Jan 21, 2015

SaintMatthew said:
Sarcastic or not, you spoke the truth.

"Another was Maximilian Kolbe was aPolish Conventual Franciscan friar, who volunteered to die in place of a stranger in theNazi German death campofAuschwitz, located in German-occupiedPolandduring World War II.

According to an eye witness, an assistant janitor at that time, in his prison cell, Kolbe led the prisoners in prayer. Each time the guards checked on him, he was standing or kneeling in the middle of the cell and looking calmly at those who entered. After two weeks of dehydration and starvation, only Kolbe remained alive. “The guards wanted the bunker emptied, so they gave Kolbe a lethal injection ofcarbolic acid. Kolbe is said to have raised his left arm and calmly waited for the deadly injection.”

Maximilian Kolbe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Like a boss. Wow.

BilliardsBall · Jan 23, 2015

The commonality I see throughout this thread is the question of whether a church's tradition, our vivid imaginations or the Bible steer the ships of our lives.

In my case, I see the Bible in context and literal has the answers to all of the questions raised and more.

Khatru · Jan 23, 2015

Johnlove said:
The written word is not in any way the best way to communicate.

I believe that is why God gave us his Holy Spirit to teach us to come to know him.

By the way Jesus/Holy Spirit is a very good communicator.

But he's still going to slaughter us if we don't do what he wants us to do.

Quagmire · Jan 23, 2015

Loving someone is giving them what they need, and sometimes people need a kick in the ***.

Johnlove · Jan 23, 2015

Khatru said:
But he's still going to slaughter us if we don't do what he wants us to do.

God is our creator. He promised that if we obey him he would allow us to live with him in his kingdom.

Those who decide to not obey him will not live with God in his kingdom.

Those who do not obey God are no longer his children, and he will discard them to the one they have obeyed, Satan.

idea · Jan 25, 2015

Shiranui117 said:
"Remember the next time you ask yourself "What would Jesus do?" that flipping tables and chasing people with whips is a perfectly valid option."

Sometimes the loving thing to do is to knock some sense into someone!

Johnlove · Jan 25, 2015

idea said:
Sometimes the loving thing to do is to knock some sense into someone!

Do you know if Jesus ever hit anyone with that whip? Whips were uses to drive cattle. Were there not cattle in the temple that need to be driven out?

Jesus did not need to whip any person, his voice would be he needed to make people obey him.

Also do you know that God is the Law Giver, and the Law enforcer?

God’s Law says:

(Matthew 5:38-48) “You have learnt how it was said: Eye for eye and tooth for tooth. But I say this to you: offer the wicked man no resistance. On the contrary, if anyone hits you on the right cheek, offer him the other.”

(Matthew 5:43-44) “You have learnt how it was said, you must love your neighbor and hate your enemy, but I say this to you: love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.”

And he will enforce that Law.

idea · Jan 25, 2015

Johnlove said:
Do you know if Jesus ever hit anyone with that whip? Whips were uses to drive cattle. Were there not cattle in the temple that need to be driven out?

Jesus did not need to whip any person, his voice would be he needed to make people obey him.

Also do you know that God is the Law Giver, and the Law enforcer?

God’s Law says:

(Matthew 5:38-48) “You have learnt how it was said: Eye for eye and tooth for tooth. But I say this to you: offer the wicked man no resistance. On the contrary, if anyone hits you on the right cheek, offer him the other.”

(Matthew 5:43-44) “You have learnt how it was said, you must love your neighbor and hate your enemy, but I say this to you: love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.”

And he will enforce that Law.

You can love your neighbor, and still not endorse violent or abusive behavior from them. Loving someone does not mean allowing yourself to be abused by them.

Johnlove · Jan 25, 2015

idea said:
You can love your neighbor, and still not endorse violent or abusive behavior from them. Loving someone does not mean allowing yourself to be abused by them.

Jesus allowed himself to be abused.

Remember Jesus told us to pray for his will to be done. Who are we to interfere with God’s will?

We say that God takes care of us. Well then let God do that.

Our responsibility is to obey God.

Defend our children?

Defend our mother?

Defend our father?

Obeying God is loving God.

(Matthew 10:37) “'No one who prefers father or mother to me is worthy of me. No one who prefers son or daughter to me is worthy of me.”

idea · Jan 25, 2015

Johnlove said:
Jesus allowed himself to be abused.

Remember Jesus told us to pray for his will to be done. Who are we to interfere with God’s will?

We say that God takes care of us. Well then let God do that.

Our responsibility is to obey God.

Defend our children?

Defend our mother?

Defend our father?

Obeying God is loving God.

(Matthew 10:37) “'No one who prefers father or mother to me is worthy of me. No one who prefers son or daughter to me is worthy of me.”

There is a time and a place for every season - a time of war, and of peace, situations that call for turning the other cheek, and others that require marching around Jericho. It's often only in the moment that God sends promptings on how we're supposed to deal with our Goliaths. The scriptures are filled with unique situations that all require different reactions, and that is how life is too.

Johnlove · Jan 25, 2015

idea said:
There is a time and a place for every season - a time of war, and of peace, situations that call for turning the other cheek, and others that require marching around Jericho. It's often only in the moment that God sends promptings on how we're supposed to deal with our Goliaths. The scriptures are filled with unique situations that all require different reactions, and that is how life is too.

Yes you have an opinion, and you will have to try and convince Jesus that your opinion was justified.

I believe Jesus will remind you of scripture, and this conversation.

Do you know that only those who live the Word of God will enter the kingdom of God?

(Matthew 7:21-23) “It is not those who say to me, ‘Lord, Lord’, who will enter the kingdom of Heaven but the person who does the will of My Father in Heaven. When the day comes many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, cast out demons in your name, work many miracles in your name?’ Then I shall tell them to their faces: I have never known you; away from me, you evil men!”

idea · Jan 25, 2015

Johnlove said:
Yes you have an opinion, and you will have to try and convince Jesus that your opinion was justified.

I believe Jesus will remind you of scripture, and this conversation.

Do you know that only those who live the Word of God will enter the kingdom of God?

(Matthew 7:21-23) “It is not those who say to me, ‘Lord, Lord’, who will enter the kingdom of Heaven but the person who does the will of My Father in Heaven. When the day comes many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, cast out demons in your name, work many miracles in your name?’ Then I shall tell them to their faces: I have never known you; away from me, you evil men!”

I'm curious, do you believe God knows and approves of you? Do you believe you are without sin?

Love your enemies

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