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Brahman is conscious?

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
Everything is consciousness; the slower the vibration, the more solid the manifest state.

Thus where as Brahman is without form and without self. The moment you start to crystallize a belief, it becomes more solid and slower in vibration.

Brahman is the CPU; we're like programs (atma) in the Matrix. :innocent:
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
I assume Brahman is also seen as divine in Hinduism. Let me know if I am wrong?
Yes, most accept it as that, I differ.
Where science and logic stops, spirituality begins :D - don't mind.
I certainly don't mind it but I also do not believe it.
Aup ji, So according to Advaita, Brahman, whom the vedas call as sarvajna and sarva shaktiman does not even know about the existence of this world he created?
Ash ji, it did not create anything. That is only our illusion. Is it not changeless, nirvikara (without modification)? :)

Edited to give the meaning of 'nirvikara'.
 
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Acintya_Ash

Bhakta
Ash ji, it did not create anything. That is only our illusion. Is it not changeless, nirvikara? :)
Yes i agree Brahman is changeless. Suppose i'm dreaming and i may create and destroy things in dream, and it doesn't affect the Dreamer, Me since its not real wrt me. So as per that case, i'm changeless ain't i?

Considering the world as a Dream of Brahman, Wouldn't it be wrong to call Brahman, 'a Conscious Dreamer'? As Brahman is also called Turiya. That would mean Brahman is Conscious. Anything wrong with this analogy?
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Considering the world as a Dream of Brahman, Wouldn't it be wrong to call Brahman, 'a Conscious Dreamer'? .. Anything wrong with this analogy?
The universe is not a dream, it is a truth, however, at a lower level. It is not Brahman's dream, it is our dream; the Brahman under 'maya'.
As Gödel demonstrated, all of our systems are self-referencing.
:) Yes, Gödel destroyed the certainty. We are trying to find an answer to him. I think Gödel cannot be applied everywhere.
 
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JRMcC

Active Member
I will not believe in anything unverifiable. At the moment 'physical energy' is the only thing that can be proven to exist in the universe, mass only being a form of it. That is why I say Brahman is 'physical energy'. Let science or any other discipline prove it wrong, I will be happy to change my views. Therefore, I will not agree that (even) atheists believe in anything that is unverifiable.

This might be a topic for another thread, but I disagree with this slightly. Are you familiar with the Lord of The Rings? It's not material, yet I know of it and I can imagine all its scenes vividly and describe it to you. And in fact the story's content actually induces an emotional response in me, and this means it actually physically affects what's going on in my brain. Maybe "exist" and "real" aren't the same thing?
If you think this is worth discussing, I can start another thread sometime. I'm sure some of the secular western atheists would have a lot to say about that.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
It's not material, yet I know of it and I can imagine all its scenes vividly and describe it to you. And in fact the story's content actually induces an emotional response in me, and this means it actually physically affects what's going on in my brain. Maybe "exist" and "real" aren't the same thing?
If you think this is worth discussing, I can start another thread sometime. I'm sure some of the secular western atheists would have a lot to say about that.
Go ahead. Perhaps General Religious debates will be the right forum for it. But the story affects you, that is very personal. Dracula story may affect some men or women. Perhaps I am not getting what you mean. Lord of Rings is surely a much appreciated film, like the Star Trek series and Matrix. People in West regularly quote from them. Unfortunately, I have not seen both the films because I consider myself past the film-going age. Also, I am a simple person, I do not tax my brain very much. I cannot cope with a discussion if it becomes too scriptural or complex. I look for simple answers. :)
 

Stormcry

Well-Known Member
That's why all schools of Philosophy who consider the world as real (temporary), consider Brahman-Jiva bheda

But the person who's self-realization never says that he was in bondage before. This is something different than our observed reality or our logic. The conclusion of Veda is that Atma is aloof from Bondage and Moksha. Bondage and Moksha are just imaginations of mind, having no real existence. I've already posted a thread about this in Vedanta dir. Atma's NO Moksha/Bondage | ReligiousForums.com

If Bondage and Moksha has no any real place in Brahman, then Brahman's dreaming ie Bondage should not have any effect on Brahman.
 

तत्त्वप्रह्व

स्वभावस्थं निरावेशम्
I came across a different argument recently (it was a book on Kashmir/monistic Shaivism, at least 50 years old) that was ultimately making the same point that you are.

The argument was something like: If everything in the world only meaningfully existed within individual consciousness' subjective experience, than the world wouldn't make much sense. There would be no truth or objectivity. A universal mind is necessary to account for objectivity.
Well, it appears from the above that there is a presumption that 'only' the universal mind can comprehend objectively and 'only' those comprehended by it are objective; further, anything comprehended by individual is automatically subjective and 'only' subjective can be comprehended by it. Would that reflect the position of the book?
It might be more in line with science to say that objectivity is something that only exists in the subjective individual mind
What i'm inclined to believe is that the individual consciousness comprehends both - objective as well as subjective. The IC however, is not located in the brain (as the speaker in the video would have us believe), can brain-activity account for every experience accurately? Or does the same area flare up in every individual's brain on say, listening to a particular music which is equally liked but its experience is not directly explicable? Objective for me, accounts for the breadth whereas, subjective for depth. The supposition of an UC to account for the objective - in this case being external - would be to deny its existence w.r.t. innate experiences. The experience of 'i am' would be most objective individual experience (making UC=0, the position aka śūnya or UC=IC aka advaita (UC-IC=0)) but then it wouldn't account for infinite 'i am's - how do we know this, there is no evidence to the contrary. UC, then becomes the basis for countless ICs.

नारायणपरब्रह्मार्पणमस्तु ।
 

apophenia

Well-Known Member
But the person who's self-realization never says that he was in bondage before. This is something different than our observed reality or our logic. The conclusion of Veda is that Atma is aloof from Bondage and Moksha. Bondage and Moksha are just imaginations of mind, having no real existence. I've already posted a thread about this in Vedanta dir. Atma's NO Moksha/Bondage | ReligiousForums.com

If Bondage and Moksha has no any real place in Brahman, then Brahman's dreaming ie Bondage should not have any effect on Brahman.

I realise what you mean here.

It is something very difficult to express ... however your statement "Bondage and Moksha are just imaginations of mind, having no real existence" is your finger pointing directly at the moon. :)

Namaste
 
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