Watchtower Governing Body: Are They The Exclusive Channel For God??

savagewind said:

Jesus said he has two flocks. Perhaps the scriptures which say only the one doing the will of The Father will be saved means will be saved to Heaven and refers only to the 144,000.

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Two folds = Jews and Gentiles

katiemygirl said:

Two folds = Jews and Gentiles

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Well Maybe but in my humble opinion God knows. Last time I checked I wasn't God. I'll check again tomorrow.
But "Jews and Gentiles" fits my assumed perimeter. Jew means dedicated. Gentile is not but believes in the son of God.

She was right about there not being "two folds". There are two flocks but one is in a fold. The ones in the fold are bound to the promise of God to make a nation of kings and priests. The flock can't enter into the inner rooms like the priests can. But they also believe God for salvation.

savagewind said:

Jesus said he has two flocks. Perhaps the scriptures which say only the one doing the will of The Father will be saved means will be saved to Heaven and refers only to the 144,000.

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There is one flock--made up of two groups--the little flock( luke 12:32)-144,000) and the great multitude of other sheep which no man can number, One flock 2 separate promises-- 144,000 to heaven-Rev 14:3-- Jesus promised the earth to the great multitude--there is 0 doubt in all creation.

There is a lot a doubt about some things the governing body teach about scripture. For instance they use Proverbs 4:18 to explain away their misconceptions. They equate the light which gets brighter to the knowledge of God. But light is Jesus who is the love of God so Proverbs 4:18 isn't about knowledge becoming clearer. It is about God's love becoming more and more undeniable.

="Pegg, post: 4120624, member: 23994"]You are correct, Christians are not given authority to judge the world, but they are given authority to judge within. As Christians, we must do that in order to ensure that our worship is correct and our practices are in harmony with Gods Will because we all stand before God as individuals and he will judge each of us for what we believe and practice.
We are supposed to judge those 'inside' the congregation, while God judges those 'outside' of it:

1 Cor 5:12 For what do I have to do with judging those outside? Do you not judge those inside, 13 while God judges those outside?+ “Remove the wicked person from among yourselves.”​

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I agree 100%

You are doing that right now with this thread. You are judging 8 million Jehovahs Witnesses and calling them 'false prophets' because of what we believe and teach.

The only way you decided we are false prophets is that you looked at our teachings, you looked at our organisation and because you didnt like what you heard, you judged it as false.

And thats good that you've done that because as a follower of Christ, we must examine ourselves and our teachings and the teachings of other christians. If we didnt' do this, we might as well just go along to any denomination and sit and accept what is being taught....and if we get led astray, then we only have ourselves to blame.

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We are to discern good and evil, truth or lie. I do not believe it is my place to judge JW's, Mormons, Buddhists, Jews, Catholics or any individuals. But I have every right to judge the doctrines of those religions.

By the way, it's not that I didn't like what I heard about Watchtower teachings. It's that I cannot reconcile the teachings with the Bible.

The thing that bothers me most is the constant changes. That is precisely the reason I left catholicism. I wanted a truth that never changes. I don't want any part of a group that says something is a sin one day, and the next day it isn't or vice versa. I don't want any part of a religion that has an earthly head. Yes, elders shepherd the flock. They keep them on the right path, but their role ends there. They are not to make new doctrine. That's how I see it Pegg.

Hey if I missed responding to one of your posts, I'll catch up in the morning. Have a great night!

katiemygirl said:

I wanted a truth that never changes.

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I can understand that. And I agree there is an absolute truth that does not change. And yet, (and I don't mean this as it sounds at initial glance.)....and yet, the apostles did not understand all aspects of the truth completely.

They had unfulfilled expectations similar to the rest of the Jews, always expect Jesus to restore the Kingdom right then and there. When the Judizer's were pushing the keeping of the Law on Gentile Christians as a mandate, they had to meet together and along with the help from the holy spirit make clear what circumcision is not one of the things that are required of Christians.

Paul also wrote: "For we have partial knowledge and we prophesy partially....For now we see in hazy outline (or "indistinctly.") by means of a metal mirror, but then it will be face-to-face. At present I know partially, but then I will know accurately, (or "fully.") just as I am accurately known." - 1 Corinthians 13:9,12.

Paul was saying, from the context, that the special gifts of the spirit would be done away with when the canon as we have it today would be complete. But it is also an example of how one can be part of God's approved form of worship and still only have a hazy outline of absolute truth.

I want truth that will never change too, but we have to understand that our understanding of that truth may adjust when it is Jehovah's time to shine a little more light on a particular subject to make it clearer to us. This is not down w/o effort on our part. Effort that he blesses - when the timing is right.

"As for you Daniel, keep the words secret, and seal up the book until the time of the end. Many will rove about, (or "examine it [that is, the book] thoroughly.") and true knowledge will become abundant." - Da 12:4

Matthew 19:21
Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."
Luke 12:33
Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will never fail, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys.
Matthew 6: 19"Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal.20"But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys, and where thieves do not break in or steal;

Acts 2:41
Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.
Acts 2:47
praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved.
Acts 4:4
But many who heard the message believed; so the number of men who believed grew to about five thousand.

Luke 9:2
and he sent them out to proclaim the kingdom of God and to heal the sick.
Mark 6:12 And they went out, and preached that men should repent.
Luke 9:60
Jesus said to him, "Let the dead bury their own dead, but you go and proclaim the kingdom of God."
Matthew 19:24
Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.

So James wrote. I think it is obvious he wrote with the words of Jesus in mind. OK? Why did he write do not say "I will go to do business and make a profit"? He wasn't writing about NOT doing business. The point he was making was planning can't be done with God's will in mind because we do not know tomorrow like God knows tomorrow. They will not let you see it! He was writing about The Word. See above? The Word.

13 Come, now, you who say: “Today or tomorrow we will travel to this city and will spend a year there, and we will do THE WORK OF THE LORD and make DISCIPLES ,”+14 whereas you do not know what your life will be like tomorrow.+ For you are a mist that appears for a little while and then disappears.+15 Instead, you should say: “If Jehovah* wills,+ we will live and do this or that.”16 But now you take pride in your arrogant boasting. All such boasting is wicked.

Does no one see false religion put the idea of doing business and making a profit alongside "the will of Jehovah"?

I will go to do business and make a profit.....If Jehovah* wills

That is what the governing body teaches. It is what they tell you to "inculcate into your children". For anyone not knowing inculcate it is a step above force it.

Why not make a comparison?
I will go to do business and make a profit.....If Jehovah* wills
I will go do the work of The Lord and make disciples....if Jehovah wills.

But of course them adding the work MAKE at Matter 28:19 means it IS Jehovah's Will to make disciples.

Compare.

Go therefore and make disciples of nations
I am going therefore you disciple nations. "Disciple" means to do the will of The Lord

Put them together.

I go, therefore disciples nations......adding to the congregation if Jehovah wills.

Why does the governing body think it is wise to teach that Jehovah is linked to doing business for profit? James 4:8 $* (that is 4 & 8 keys) It is contrary to the teachings of Jesus and the apostles. So why please?

I will tell you why they won't change it. They will never change it. The reason why? It would put a question in people's heads about the preaching work. The preaching work is what brings in people. People equals profit.

It means if James 4:8 says "add disciples if Jehovah wills" then instead of listening to the governing body say "Go to work!" they would pray about it; "Let your will be done". But now what they do is the governing body's will because the governing body says Matthew 28:19 says "make disciples".

Even though I do not want to must I assume James wrote about doing business of the world with profit and not about a person's dedication to do God's will?

People will say the meaning of scripture is OFF TOPIC. I don't believe it. Jesus = The Word = The Way = Salvation = what the governing body say it is. Thus by proving they do not know what they are talking about eliminates the last step there which is privy to the thread title. Isn't it? Eliminate the last step no? LOL

An exercise for you. Assuming James is in heaven waiting to ride against false religion means he is conscious. Yes? Is he conscious up there? Let us assume he is. I think we should eliminate religion and then he is waiting to ride against false. Just plain false. He is in heaven waiting to ride against all falsehood. IF he wrote about a man's service for righteousness and did not write about money what is he thinking? What is he thinking now?

I'll tell you what I am thinking. Surprise! You thought I never would. Huh?

People here are working hard to vindicate themselves with good works calling it "for Jehovah, The Lord, God" et cetera.
But what about James? I imagined he is thinking "I wish I never wrote that". (I do not know what he is thinking) But I think I know what he was thinking when he wrote it. Because what he wrote about is The Way. They say he wrote about making money. But making money ISN'T God's way. Doing business is about the world. Why does every preacher on the planet say James introduced leaven to The Word? I think he didn't.

Please do not be afraid to answer this. What is it called that after doing something in the Lord's service for real you say "I wish I never did it"? Does James not say he wished he never wrote what they twisted and how many people believe it? Does my little friend (imho) have a number for us?

Just ask me nice (in my humble opinion) for a picture and I think I can draw one.

I am trolling. Oh! The the next right thing to do is to eliminate the posts. That is what they do, Not you. On the other forum that is what they did. Or he did.

The picture. I understand the good news being preached by many is that I should do works which will result in my vindication before The Judge. But I think, knowing that God's words are being maligned which means being given meaning that was never intended, that God's works for us is to untwist or take the leaven out of that which our forefathers gave us. If one of the holy ones whose words were accepted into canon knew that their words are being taught wrong and in some cases VERY wrong how would they feel? They would want to be vindicated. I would, When we do "good to the least ones of the people of The Lord" we are doing works to vindicate THEM not US. Who will? Right now nobody. If nobody is doing good to the least of Jesus' brothers then bring that to it's logical conclusion.

If nobody is doing the works for the vindication of the least one of the holy ones then nobody is on the road to life. This is according to the illustration and not according to my humble opinion.

[="Kolibri, post: 4120850, member: 55852"]...and yet, the apostles did not understand all aspects of the truth completely.
They had unfulfilled expectations similar to the rest of the Jews, always expect Jesus to restore the Kingdom right then and there. When the Judizer's were pushing the keeping of the Law on Gentile Christians as a mandate, they had to meet together and along with the help from the holy spirit make clear what circumcision is not one of the things that are required of

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Yes, but the Apostles were inspired. Watchtower is not. Big difference!

I want truth that will never change too, but we have to understand that our understanding of that truth may adjust when it is Jehovah's time to shine a little more light on a particular subject to make it clearer to us. This is not down w/o effort on our part. Effort that he blesses - when the timing is right.

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There are absolutely no new truths. There isn't a living person on earth who is receiving revelations of any sort today, and that includes private interpretaions by Watchtower.

An organization whose prophesies don't come to light is a false prophet. When that organization repeatedly makes false prophesies, how can anyone say the light is getting brighter?

Reading the context of the entire chapter of Proverbs 4 shows that verses 18-19 contrast the benefit of the "righteous" obeying the instructions of a wise father with the damage to the "wicked" who forsake such wisdom. Proverbs 4:18 does not, taken in context, justify any individual or organization replacing doctrines and failed prophecies with new doctrines and prophecies.

Truth is found in the Scriptures alone, and no individual or organization has power to change the faith once delivered to the saints. Yet, Watchtower does this exact thing repeatedly, hiding behind Proverb 4:18. They change what they call truth today for what they call a new truth, which makes the first truth a lie.

katiemygirl said:

Yes, but the Apostles were inspired. Watchtower is not. Big difference!

There are absolutely no new truths. There isn't a living person on earth who is receiving revelations of any sort today, and that includes private interpretaions by Watchtower.

An organization whose prophesies don't come to light is a false prophet. When that organization repeatedly makes false prophesies, how can anyone say the light is getting brighter?

Reading the context of the entire chapter of Proverbs 4 shows that verses 18-19 contrast the benefit of the "righteous" obeying the instructions of a wise father with the damage to the "wicked" who forsake such wisdom. Proverbs 4:18 does not, taken in context, justify any individual or organization replacing doctrines and failed prophecies with new doctrines and prophecies.

Truth is found in the Scriptures alone, and no individual or organization has power to change the faith once delivered to the saints. Yet, Watchtower does this exact thing repeatedly, hiding behind Proverb 4:18. They change what they call truth today for what they call a new truth, which makes the first truth a lie.

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You are correct. There are no new truths. We won't likely have any till the new scrolls are opened. And yet our understanding of the word we already have changes. That is true for any student that studies any subject, no?

Kolibri said:

You are correct. There are no new truths. We won't likely have any till the new scrolls are opened. And yet our understanding of the word we already have changes. That is true for any student that studies any subject, no?

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I think you mean not "our" understanding changes. Don't you mean the remnant of the 144,000, their understanding changes? With all the anointed in Heaven WHO will open those scrolls?

Kolibri said:

You are correct. There are no new truths. We won't likely have any till the new scrolls are opened. And yet our understanding of the word we already have changes. That is true for any student that studies any subject, no?

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As long as the understandings are in line with all of the Scriptures. Sadly, there are many religious groups who take a verse out of context and build a doctrine around it. That's not truth! That's manipulating the word of God to fit a theology.

I saw that happen on one of the threads about homosexuality. By the time people finished with the verse, homosexuality was not a sin. Homosexuality wasn't even in the Bible.

One of my favorites is 1 Peter 3:21 where Peter says "baptism now saves you." By the time some folks finish with their long explanations, the verse ends up saying baptism does not save you.

So so many false doctrines and all created by well meaning people. This is why God wants us to study the Scriptures. Meditate on them day and night so we don't get ourselves ensnared in the web of lies false teachers promote.

I don't know about you. I trust but verify every word when it comes to my walk with God. I will never accept something if it seems even a little bit wrong. I will always challenge the person making claims, even if it is our elders. Of course I do it respectfully. One of the things I love about the Lord's church is I can do that without fear of being shunned.

katiemygirl said:

When someone isolates a verse away from the rest of the Bible, he/she can draw a false conclusion.

John 8:54 bears out the fact that God did glorify Jesus. Jesus said He did.

John 8:54
Jesus replied, "If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me.

John also referred to Jesus as the glory of the Father:

“And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us; we have beheld his glory, the glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.” John 1:14

Jesus Himself spoke of regaining the glory which he had with his Father before the world was created:

“When Jesus had spoken these words, he lifted up his eyes to heaven and said, ‘Father, the hour has come; glorify your Son that the Son may glorify you, since you have given him authority over all flesh, to give eternal life to all whom you have given him. And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. I glorified you on earth, having accomplished the work which you gave me to do; and now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory which I had with you before the world was made.” John 17:1-5

These verses clearly show God shares His glory with Jesus. Read Isaiah 42:8 in context. You will realize that God said He wouldn't share His glory with anyone other than His servant.

Scripture cannot contradict Scripture.

Truth never changes. It gets twisted, but praise YHWH! We have the all inspired Scriptures to show us the absolute truth.

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No, the verse shows that God has his glory, and Jesus has his glory. Glory is something that anyone can have... but it is yours or mine or Jesus or Gods.

The glory of Jehovah is that he is the Almighty. That is his Glory.
The glory of Jesus is that he is Gods Only Begotten Son. That is his glory and it belongs to no one but him.
The glory of you and I is that we were created in Gods image. That is our glory and it is shared by all mankind.
The glory of the 144,000 is that they will rule as Kings and Priests in heaven. That is their glory and it belongs to no one else.
The glory of the Great Crowd of other sheep is that they will inherit the earth and live forever upon it. That is their glory.

We all have a glory of some kind. But no ones glory is the same as Jehovahs. He alone is the Almighty and the Sovereign of the universe.