So before it said *let there be light* it knew every single instance it will intervene and and every single instance it will ignore?
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Why does God allow evil?
- Thread starter Gambit
- Start date
So before it said *let there be light* it knew every single instance it will intervene and and every single instance it will ignore?
muhammad_isa
Well-Known Member
Yes, Almighty God created time-space, and is not subject to it .. He is the First and the Last
ie. He is of infinite nature
Human beings naturally have difficulty with this concept because we are limited beings living in a finite world .. our free-will is not affected by Almighty God's knowledge .. you have to envisage that God 'created time' as well as space ..
ie. Almighty God does not have a clock in heaven with 'standard time' or any OTHER time zone
Yes, Almighty God created time-space, and is not subject to it .. He is the First and the Last
ie. He is of infinite nature
Human beings naturally have difficulty with this concept because we are limited beings living in a finite world .. our free-will is not affected by Almighty God's knowledge .. you have to envisage that God 'created time' as well as space ..
ie. Almighty God does not have a clock in heaven with 'standard time' or any OTHER time zone
Just so I understand this correctly, god, before saying let there be light, knew I would not believe in it, correct?
muhammad_isa
Well-Known Member
I went to the mosque for worship
Almighty God did not intentionally create you not to believe in Him .. There are billions of people in the world, each with a unique soul, different upbringings, living in different environments.
Almighty God is "closer to you than your jugular vein" .. that is, He is aware of your deepest thoughts. If you take 'a step' towards Him, He will come 'running' towards you
Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
If you take 'a step' towards Him, He will come 'running' towards you
So how have you personally experienced that?
Really? Does it have any intentions to make itself known to me?
If you take 'a step' towards Him, He will come 'running' towards you
Is that what you did?
Simplelogic
Well-Known Member
Valid question. Please know that I can't answer for Christians and Jews seeing that both institutions reject my views. I can try to give the best answer according to the Hebrew scriptures.
Should God let evil happen?
This question assumes that God is in complete control of the events happening on earth. I have previously shown that this is not the case according the the Hebrew text. Nor do I believe that God is outside of time, seeing the end from the beginning. I believe time is a part of God and He is going through it, right there with us! This explains the many times God claims to have changed His mind or repented of doing something. He also claims that the evil that Israel committed with infanticide "never came into His mind"!!!
In a nut shell, this is how I see it.
God has undertaken this risky venture of creating independent humans, because He is longing for family/fellowship. He has created rules for how He interacts with this world and has serious limitations. Also, most of His actions on earth are determined on the actions of man for some reason….as if He needs man in order to get something done on this earth. Let me try to explain my views a different way.
When God created man (Adam). He literally gave this world to him. It belonged to Adam. When Adam turned from God and listened to a rebellious voice, Adam literally gave the authority of this world over to another entity. One who's goals are to dominate the human race. Evil was not created by God in any way. God simply created a completely independent being with full capacity for obedience/disobedience. This means that the one who is "in control" of this world right now is not God but the adversary. This is why Jesus says things like, "thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven". Now, the very fact that we are asked to pray for the will of the Father to be done on earth is obviously because HIS WILL IS NOT HAPPENING ON EARTH RIGHT NOW.
Simplelogic
Well-Known Member
Here is an example of God being limited in His communication to humans:
Daniel was fasting and praying for 21 days before the messenger/angel was able to get to him with God's response. So much for being able to be everywhere, all the time.
12Then he said to me, “Do not be afraid, Daniel, for from the first day that you set your heart on understanding thisand on humbling yourself before your God, your words were heard, and I have come in response to your words. 13“But the prince of the kingdom of Persia was withstanding me for twenty-one days; then behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left there with the kings of Persia.14“Now I have come to give you an understanding of what will happen to your people in the latter days, for the vision pertains to the days yet future.” Dan 10: 12-14
So the angel says that God immediately heard the prayers of Daniel and responded by sending Gabriel. But Gabriel was held up in Persia by a different entity and could not get to Daniel. So God sent Michael to help Gabriel fulfill his mission to Daniel.
Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
I would like to know too.
Think Muhammad's back in the mosque waiting for jesus to pass along the answer?
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
And Allah is all powerful. He changes his word whenever he so desires?
That is right because it is he who blinds our eyes and hardens our hearts so that we cannot see his majesty.
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Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
A very pitiable kind of God, he is not in control, needs humans to have things done on earth. Limited foresight, never thought of the infanticide. Creates an entity which is intends to deny his will in this world. And in the last 6,000 years (correct me if I am wrong) has not been able to make his will work in the world and perhaps never will. What is the use of praying to such a caricature of God?
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Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
How did God know that Gabriel was detained in Persia? And if he knew immediately, why did He take 21 days to send in Michael? How was Michael able to help Gabriel? And if Michael could help, then why Gabriel himself was not able to do so? Kindly give us a consistent believable story (but the unfortunate thing is that Bible does not contain consistent believable stories).
Simplelogic
Well-Known Member
Well. You added your own piece into this which I don't agree with. God has done much in this world over the last 6,000 years to combat this evil in the world. Many of these stories are documented in the Hebrew Scriptures. However, I'm not here to convince you to believe these stories.
I never said that God created any entity to "deny his will". This again would mean that God is predestining His creation, which I believe the text disproves. I do believe that He creates beings with the capacity to obey or not.
Simplelogic
Well-Known Member
I believe that God has an elaborate team of communicating angels/messengers which inform Him on what is going on.
Again, I'm not here to convince you to believe the text. Just debating what the text says. You can believe whatever you want.
Why did God send Gabriel (without help) if He knew Gabriel would be held up? God obviously didn't know that Gabriel wouldn't be able to get past the prince of Persia. Once He found out, He dispatched Michael to fix the problem.
All of this drama clearly indicates that God is not operating outside of time and is responding to events happening on this earth. The very opposite of mainstream Christian/Jewish doctrines.
Simplelogic
Well-Known Member
I see this as a good thing. He wants man to choose goodness and mercy. Not program them.
Simplelogic
Well-Known Member
Can you give me an example of these inconsistencies? The only major problems are found in Paul's letters in the NT. IMHO, Paul's letters contradict the Hebrew text and the words of Jesus.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
Good that he did not program us, we would have ended in a bigger mess.