The Trinity

After reading several comments at the beginning and towards the end, I would like to offer my understanding on the Trinity topic.

Jesus never ever called himself Yahweh (YHWH) nor God. He referred to himself as the Son of God (and rightly so).

In order for Yahushuo (Jesus) to remain the sinless sacrifice as the savior of mankind, he would have had to obey ALL the commandments of Yahweh, especially the one to "have no other gods before me". (Exodus 20:3)

"And he said, Nay; but [as] captain of the host of YAHWEH am I now come. And Yahusho fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my lord unto his servant?" (Yahushuo 5:14). Here he worshipped the angel as lord and not God; therefore, you can worship someone according to their title, such as lord or king. But Yahushuo (Joshua) was not worshipping the angel as a god. " So shall the king greatly desire thy beauty: for he [is] thy Lord; and worship thou him." -- Psalm 45:11.

The Holy Spirit does not have a name because he is the Spirit of God. Each of us have a spirit but you don't see any of us giving them separate names and treating them as a separate person. You would be called a schizophrenic. Therefore, the Holy Spirit is not a separate person apart from Yahweh; he is a manifestation of Yahweh such as the angel that met Abraham on the way to Sodom and Omarah. "And YAHWEH said, Because the cry of Sodom and Omarah is great, and because their sin is very grievous" -- [GENESIS 18:20]

"Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death. Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself? YAHUSHUO (Jesus) answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is [YAHWEH] my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God: Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying. Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw [it], and was glad. Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? YAHUSHUO (Jesus) said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. -- [JOHN 8:52-58]

This proves that YAHUSHUO (aka Jesus Christ) existed "In the beginning" (Genesis 1:1) with YAHWEH when he said "Let us make man in our image". However, this tells me that YAHWEH the Almighty God created the heavens and the earth through the Son of God. There is no trinity; that is religious-political development that was forced upon the people of YAHWEH hundreds of years later after the resurrection of the Messiah.

Shabbath Shaluom.

cataway said:

the bible does say Jesus is the son of God 42 times . how many times does it call him God ? the answer is real easy

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Uh...therefore? Is 'son of God', not a trinity? Or what? That actually sounds more like a "trinity", ie three entities, as opposed to saying 'Jesus is God', -->one entity.

cataway said:

the bible does say Jesus is the son of God 42 times . how many times does it call him God ? the answer is real easy

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Heb. 1:8-9 God has spoken of Jesus His Son the words of Ps 45:6-7; "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever...and the righteous scepter is the scepter of your {his} kingdom. You have loved justice ad hated iniquity; therefore O God, your God has anointed you with the oil of gladness..."

Jn 1:1 "In the beginning....and the Word was God

20:28 Thomas calls Jesus my Lord and my God. Jesus is clearly addressed as God (ho theos mou)
Jesus is given the title kyrios which was the standard Septuagint translation for YHWH.

Yes said:

Jesus did not stop anyone from worshiping him.

Jesus explains that he cares what the Father thinks of him, not men...BECAUSE THE MEN HE WAS SPEAKING TO did not want to come to him for salvation and they did not love God.

We too like it when others love us and think highly of us...but when they do not, we are not to care about that, for we are to only care about what God thinks of us.

You are fighting against the scriptures, because the scriptures say Jesus was worshiped, and the scriptures say EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW BEFORE JESUS.

.

Are you trying to say Jesus was not good? You do not understand the scriptures. It is ignorant for you to say Jesus was saying he was not good.

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What scripture is that? I never said Jesus denied being good, I said he denied it on that occasion because he didn't want worship. You have still yet to demonstrate Jesus actually WANTED or ACCEPTED worship. Everytime Jesus was called God in that way by people he made it a point to correct their error.

Gnostic Seeker said:

What scripture is that? I never said Jesus denied being good, I said he denied it on that occasion because he didn't want worship. You have still yet to demonstrate Jesus actually WANTED or ACCEPTED worship. Everytime Jesus was called God in that way by people he made it a point to correct their error.

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Show one place where Jesus said to someone to stand up and not to do that.

Matthew 2:2 - "Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we saw His star in the east, and have come to worship Him."

Matthew 2:11 - "And they came into the house and saw the Child with Mary His mother; and they fell down and worshiped Him; and opening their treasures they presented to Him gifts of gold and frankincense and myrrh."

Matthew 14:33 - "And those who were in the boat worshiped Him, saying, "You are certainly God’s Son!"

Matthew 28:9 - "And behold, Jesus met them and greeted them. And they came up and took hold of His feet and worshiped Him."

John 9:35-38 - "Jesus heard that they had put him out; and finding him, He said, "Do you believe in the Son of Man?" 36 He answered and said, "And who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?" 37 Jesus said to him, "You have both seen Him, and He is the one who is talking with you." 38 And he said, "Lord, I believe." And he worshiped Him."

Hebrews 1:6 - "And when He again brings the first-born into the world, He says, 'And let all the angels of God worship Him.'"

Luke 17:16 He threw himself at Jesus' feet and thanked him--and he was a Samaritan.

Its important to understand the roots of trinitarian thinking and how it developed, how it was understood then and not understood now at all.
The combination of the anthropomorphic God of Hebrew Scripture and Greek philosophy or Helenization especially in John and the ways the early Christians experienced God, as creator, God of Israel, in Jesus humanity, and with them in the Spirit. The word persona or Greek prosopon belong to the language of the theater. They denote the mask that made the actor into the embodiment of someone else. Person, as today an individual was a notion alien to antiquity. God is one in being and substance. Person here denotes relation. Person is the pure relation of beng related. In John's gospel, 'the Son can do nothng of his own accord,' 'The Father and I are one.' In 1Jn it is not said that God loves, but that God IS love. Love is that relation that is within God. I'm sure that if it were a task today theology would find a much different metaphor than 'person', and in a couple thousand years would again be a foreign thought.

Yes said:

You are contradicting yourself.

If Jesus is God, and he is, then he is also the Father, for there is only One God and He is the Father.

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Contradicting? ! So Jesus was praying to himself in the garden of Gethsemane, telling himself that he didn't want to 'drink the cup' and then deferring to his own will by denying his own will? Yep.

....and telling the devil that YHWH "alone" was to be worshipped, yet never saying "worship me"!

That "Jesus is Lord to the glory of God the Father"......yet not mentioning the equal glory of God the Son or God the Holy Spirit.

Jesus calls his Father "my God" four times in Rev 3:12. This is well after his return to heaven.....so one part of God worships an equal part of himself in heaven? Is that right? Seriously, can you not see that scripture does not back up this ridiculous doctrine?

Show us one clear unequivocal statement from the Bible from either Jesus or his Father that they are equal in any way.

Yes said:

Show one place where Jesus said to someone to stand up and not to do that.

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He did not say "stand up and don't do that" because no one was "worshipping" him. They were paying respectful honor to the son of God. Look up the meaning of proskenyo. It can also mean obeisance.

In the British judicial system that was carried over in Australia, the judge was referred to as "Your Worship". This was hardly giving him the status of a deity, but was a position commanding respect, as the title suggests.

Matthew 2:2 - "Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we saw His star in the east, and have come to worship Him."

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Read it....the magi were paying respect to a king...not a god.

Matthew 2:11 - "And they came into the house and saw the Child with Mary His mother; and they fell down and worshiped Him; and opening their treasures they presented to Him gifts of gold and frankincense and myrrh."

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As above...obeisance, not worship.

Matthew 14:33 - "And those who were in the boat worshiped Him, saying, "You are certainly God’s Son!"

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He was given "obeisance" as "God's son". They did not believe that he was God Almighty and never once referred to him as such.

Matthew 28:9 - "And behold, Jesus met them and greeted them. And they came up and took hold of His feet and worshiped Him."

John 9:35-38 - "Jesus heard that they had put him out; and finding him, He said, "Do you believe in the Son of Man?" 36 He answered and said, "And who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?" 37 Jesus said to him, "You have both seen Him, and He is the one who is talking with you." 38 And he said, "Lord, I believe." And he worshiped Him."

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The "son of man" is "the son of God"...NOT God himself. Can you not discern between the Father and son? They are two entirely separate entities who share a relationship.....one is the Father who 'begat' a son. How hard is it to grasp the fact that your father isn't you and you are not your father...it is impossible for the two of you to be the same age. If the relationship between Jesus and Jehovah are not what we would understand as father and son, then why refer to themselves in this way?

Jesus called his Father "the only true God" and then referred to himself as "one sent forth" (John 17:3).....how can that be if they are one and the same person?

Hebrews 1:6 - "And when He again brings the first-born into the world, He says, 'And let all the angels of God worship Him.'"

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Again this is obeisance.....The son is commander of the angelic forces. He is not receiving the exclusive worship given to Almighty God.

Luke 17:16 He threw himself at Jesus' feet and thanked him--and he was a Samaritan.

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I can't imagine what you are trying to prove with this one.

JayJayDee said:

He did not say "stand up and don't do that" because no one was "worshipping" him. They were paying respectful honor to the son of God. Look up the meaning of proskenyo. It can also mean obeisance.

In the British judicial system that was carried over in Australia, the judge was referred to as "Your Worship". This was hardly giving him the status of a deity, but was a position commanding respect, as the title suggests.


Read it....the magi were paying respect to a king...not a god.


As above...obeisance, not worship.


He was given "obeisance" as "God's son". They did not believe that he was God Almighty and never once referred to him as such.



The "son of man" is "the son of God"...NOT God himself. Can you not discern between the Father and son? They are two entirely separate entities who share a relationship.....one is the Father who 'begat' a son. How hard is it to grasp the fact that your father isn't you and you are not your father...it is impossible for the two of you to be the same age. If the relationship between Jesus and Jehovah are not what we would understand as father and son, then why refer to themselves in this way?

Jesus called his Father "the only true God" and then referred to himself as "one sent forth" (John 17:3).....how can that be if they are one and the same person?

Again this is obeisance.....The son is commander of the angelic forces. He is not receiving the exclusive worship given to Almighty God.


I can't imagine what you are trying to prove with this one.

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Great post!!! Thanks!

pcarl said:

Its important to understand the roots of trinitarian thinking and how it developed, how it was understood then and not understood now at all.
The combination of the anthropomorphic God of Hebrew Scripture and Greek philosophy or Helenization especially in John and the ways the early Christians experienced God, as creator, God of Israel, in Jesus humanity, and with them in the Spirit. The word persona or Greek prosopon belong to the language of the theater. They denote the mask that made the actor into the embodiment of someone else. Person, as today an individual was a notion alien to antiquity. God is one in being and substance. Person here denotes relation. Person is the pure relation of beng related. In John's gospel, 'the Son can do nothng of his own accord,' 'The Father and I are one.' In 1Jn it is not said that God loves, but that God IS love. Love is that relation that is within God. I'm sure that if it were a task today theology would find a much different metaphor than 'person', and in a couple thousand years would again be a foreign thought.

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If I my comment on "I and the father are one" how do you get this scripture "20 “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— 23 I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. " to work with it ? Are all spoken of also part of the trinity?

JayJayDee said:

Contradicting? ! So Jesus was praying to himself in the garden of Gethsemane, telling himself that he didn't want to 'drink the cup' and then deferring to his own will by denying his own will? Yep.

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That is right. God really did come as a Man. Who but God the Father should Jesus pray to?

JayJayDee said:

....and telling the devil that YHWH "alone" was to be worshipped, yet never saying "worship me"!

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It was Jesus speaking in the Old Testament. Jesus is the Word of God. Jesus was always the Word of God. Think of it as saying Jesus is the voice of God, and Jesus is the body of God. Jesus is God made visible.

JayJayDee said:

That "Jesus is Lord to the glory of God the Father"......yet not mentioning the equal glory of God the Son or God the Holy Spirit.

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I am not sure what you are trying to say. Jesus is God the Father and the Holy Spirit.

JayJayDee said:

Jesus calls his Father "my God" four times in Rev 3:12. This is well after his return to heaven.....so one part of God worships an equal part of himself in heaven? Is that right? Seriously, can you not see that scripture does not back up this ridiculous doctrine?

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Jesus came from heaven and became nothing for us, he was made in the likeness of sinful flesh.

JayJayDee said:

Show us one clear unequivocal statement from the Bible from either Jesus or his Father that they are equal in any way.

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Philippians 2:6 Although from the beginning He had the nature of God He did not reckon His equality with God a treasure to be tightly grasped.

There are no distinctions.

Jesus says and does only what the Father says and does.
The Holy Spirit says only what Jesus says.
The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God.
They are NOT distinct and different.
See John 16:13-14; John 5:19; John 8:28; John 12:49; and, John 12:50.

When we see Jesus, we see the Father.

See John 8:19; 14:7, 9; Hebrews 1:3; and, Colossians 1:15.
John 12:45 The one who looks at me is seeing the one who sent me.

Their works are NOT different.

John 5:17 In his defense Jesus said to them, "My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working."
John 6:38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me.
John 4:34
"My food," said Jesus, "is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work.
John 10:37 Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father.


Go ahead and try to tell me how God the Father and Jesus are different. Explain it to me now.

JayJayDee said:

He did not say "stand up and don't do that" because no one was "worshipping" him. They were paying respectful honor to the son of God. Look up the meaning of proskenyo. It can also mean obeisance.

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I GAVE YOU MANY SCRIPTURES THAT SAY THEY WORSHIPED JESUS.

Not only that, I have you scriptures that say Peter was reverenced by Cornelius, and told to stand up!

Acts 10:25 When Peter entered, Cornelius met him, and fell at his feet and worshiped him. 26But Peter raised him up, saying, "Stand up; I too am just a man."

JayJayDee said:

The "son of man" is "the son of God"...NOT God himself. Can you not discern between the Father and son? They are two entirely separate entities who share a relationship.....one is the Father who 'begat' a son. How hard is it to grasp the fact that your father isn't you and you are not your father...it is impossible for the two of you to be the same age. If the relationship between Jesus and Jehovah are not what we would understand as father and son, then why refer to themselves in this way?

Click to expand...

There are no distinctions.

Jesus says and does only what the Father says and does.
The Holy Spirit says only what Jesus says.
The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God.
They are NOT distinct and different.
See John 16:13-14; John 5:19; John 8:28; John 12:49; and, John 12:50.

When we see Jesus, we see the Father.

See John 8:19; 14:7, 9; Hebrews 1:3; and, Colossians 1:15.
John 12:45 The one who looks at me is seeing the one who sent me.

Their works are NOT different.

John 5:17 In his defense Jesus said to them, "My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working."
John 6:38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me.
John 4:34
"My food," said Jesus, "is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work.
John 10:37 Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father.


Tell me exactly how they are different. Tell me now, I am waiting.

cataway said:

If I my comment on "I and the father are one" how do you get this scripture "20 “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— 23 I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. " to work with it ? Are all spoken of also part of the trinity?

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Jn 10:27,-30
My sheep hear my voice; I know them and they follow me.
I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish. No one can take them out of my hand.
My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one can take them out of the Father's hand.
The Father and I are one.

21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you.

lets talk how all of them will be one . how does that happen?

[That is right. God really did come as a Man. Who but God the Father should Jesus pray to?]
What????? Are you saying Jesus prays to himself?

[Jesus came from heaven and became nothing for us, he was made in the likeness of sinful flesh. ]
Became nothing for us? I'm sure that was a typo.

[Philippians 2:6 Although from the beginning He had the nature of God He did not reckon His equality with God a treasure to be tightly grasped.]
No, totally taken out of context. ESV along with many other bibles have it right. "who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped," But you guys always leave out the next verse, "But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men" This is another chapter on how he was like us and not God or co-equal.

[Go ahead and try to tell me how God the Father and Jesus are different. Explain it to me now.]
Ok, I will. Your told about the trinity in your church so you make the bible into a trinitarian bible. You also take the verses out of context to fit your beliefs. We've mentioned that to you before. You make the son of God, God Himself. You make the Holy Spirit, Jesus. The Holy Spirit is the wisdom and power of our creator. The bible says that. If the Spirit was actually a really person, then he would be Jesus's real father, not Yahweh.

moorea944 said:

[That is right. God really did come as a Man. Who but God the Father should Jesus pray to?]
What????? Are you saying Jesus prays to himself?

[Jesus came from heaven and became nothing for us, he was made in the likeness of sinful flesh. ]
Became nothing for us? I'm sure that was a typo.

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No, it is not a typo.

Philippians 2:7 rather, he made himself nothing

moorea944 said:

[Philippians 2:6 Although from the beginning He had the nature of God He did not reckon His equality with God a treasure to be tightly grasped.]
No, totally taken out of context. ESV along with many other bibles have it right. "who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped," But you guys always leave out the next verse, "But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men" This is another chapter on how he was like us and not God or co-equal.

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You have not shown how I said something wrong. That scripture says what I have been saying.

moorea944 said:

[Go ahead and try to tell me how God the Father and Jesus are different. Explain it to me now.]
Ok, I will. Your told about the trinity in your church so you make the bible into a trinitarian bible.

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You have not been paying attention. I do not believe in the trinity doctrine.
You are an embarrassment. You try to come off as a teacher but you are more confused than most.

moorea944 said:

You also take the verses out of context to fit your beliefs. We've mentioned that to you before. You make the son of God, God Himself. You make the Holy Spirit, Jesus. The Holy Spirit is the wisdom and power of our creator. The bible says that. If the Spirit was actually a really person, then he would be Jesus's real father, not Yahweh.

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You did NOT tell me how Jesus is different than God the Father. Explain who they are different now.

Yes said:

That is right. God really did come as a Man. Who but God the Father should Jesus pray to?

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Can I ask you why you believe that God had to come as a man in order to pay the ransom and redeem the human race?

People like you hammer the trinity as if Jesus being God incarnated is the only answer. It isn't.

When you explore the mechanics of the ransom, you realize that the atonement (at-one-ment) sacrifice of Jesus was the offering of an equivalent, as required in God's law. "An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a life for a life".

To atone for Adam's sin, an equivalent life was needed to balance the scales of Jehovah's perfect justice. A perfect life had to be offered for a perfect life. Since no human life was now perfect (sinless) a equivalent life had to be produced from outside the now sinful human race. (Psalm 49:7-9)

Jesus did not have to be God to offer his life in exchange for Adam's....all he has to be was perfect. He was sent from heaven as Jehovah's most trusted representative to carry the enormous responsibility of rescuing Adam's children from a perpetual cycle of sin and death.

Not only that, but Jesus had to negotiate the obstacles of other imperfect humans along with continual roadblocks put up by the devil and those he was able to use to oppose him. Jesus' own people were used against him. The very ones who should have been shepherds to his people were led away into apostasy. The devil managed to turn the entire nation into enemies of God's son. As prophesied, only a remnant responded to the truth.
It is human nature to run with the crowd. It takes courage to stand up and be different. (John 15:18-21)

Considering that satan already had two notches on his belt (two perfect humans had already fallen victim to his deceptions) and he had also persuaded countless spirit creatures to join him in rebellion (all previously perfect) Jesus as a mortal human was fair game. The devil's temptations prove that Jesus could have fallen victim to his deceptions as well. The devil was not stupid. Why would he try to tempt God?

Everything the devil used was an appeal to selfish desire....something he himself had fallen victim to.

Jesus' resolute stand and his complete reliance on his Heavenly Father and his empowering spirit, proved successful, and he was never overreached by the devil's attempts to derail him from his mission.

He is our role model. We are to rely on God's spirit and his word....not the butchered translations that are heavily biased towards the trinity, but study a variety of translations and refer to Concordances and other sources to reveal the truth contained in the original words.

You appear to see yourself as some sort of crusader.....but your stance is not Christ-like. You want to force things down people's throats, when Jesus never taught like that. He never forced people to listen to him, nor did he make people feel worthless. He appealed to their sense of reason and presented the truth for them to either accept or reject. He never 'guilt-tripped' anyone nor did he berate them for not accepting his words.

I do not doubt your zeal, but your approach is not at all inviting.....it is rather repelling.

perhaps YES could comment on post #3517

Yes said:

No, it is not a typo.

Philippians 2:7 rather, he made himself nothing


You have not shown how I said something wrong. That scripture says what I have been saying.


You have not been paying attention. I do not believe in the trinity doctrine.
You are an embarrassment. You try to come off as a teacher but you are more confused than most.


You did NOT tell me how Jesus is different than God the Father. Explain who they are different now.

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They are different in alot of ways. Let's see what scripture tells us.
God is One, Almighty, Sovereign, no beginning, always immortal, Creator and sustainer and Father of all. Jesus wasnt.

Jesus was born, made and is God's only Son. He is also from the line of David. God isnt. Scripture tells us that God works through Jesus. Why if he is God, why would he need help from anyone? Everything Jesus does is from God, his Father. God had him everything. There is so much more, but I'm not going to list everything. This is something that you should aleady know yourself. And I think you really do.

Philippians 2 is not "he made himself nothing". I dont know what bible your reading. KJV, along with many other versions, state that, " he made himself no reputation". BIG difference.

JayJayDee said:

Can I ask you why you believe that God had to come as a man in order to pay the ransom and redeem the human race?

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He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; by his wounds you have been healed. 1 Peter 2:24.
Through the sacrifice of Jesus, he gives to all those that come to him freedom from the guilt, power, and punishment of sin. See Hebrews 10:4; 1 Corinthians 15:56; See 2 Peter 2:9.
Through Jesus, we have grace from God and love. Jesus puts us into perfect holiness, joy, and fellowship with himself and the Father. See Hebrews 10:10; Hebrews 1:9; 2 Corinthians 13:14. Through Jesus’ death we are reconciled to God. See Romans 5:10.
Jesus appeared so that he might take away our sins. See 1 John 3:5.
God sent his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. See Romans 8:3.
An offering for the sins of His people. See Hebrews 10:5.
The LORD has made his life a sacrifice for our wrongdoings. See Isaiah 53:10.
It was the LORD’s will to crush him with suffering. See Isaiah 53:10.
He was made sin because the sins of His people were transferred to Jesus, and in like manner, the believer is made “the righteousness of God.” See 2 Corinthians 5:25.
Christ, who knew no sin of his own became sin for believers, so they, who have no righteousness of their own, are made the righteousness of God through Jesus. See 2 Corinthians 5:21.
“And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. See Hebrews 10:17.
God gives us this through Jesus Christ, “where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.” See Hebrews 10:18.
Jesus bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors. See Isaiah 53:12
Jesus Christ once for all has made us holy through the sacrifice of his body. Hebrews 10:10.
For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross. See Colossians 1:19-21,
God sanctifies us by the truth; His word is truth. John 17:17.
Jesus sanctified himself, that he may truly sanctify us. John 17:19.
Jesus was made perfect through suffering. Hebrews 2:10.
Jesus is able to sympathize with our weaknesses. Hebrews 4:15.
We have cleansing by the washing with water through the word. Ephesians 2:26.
We are also to purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God. 2 Corinthians 7:1.
Jesus conquered death when God raised him from the dead. 2 Timothy 1:10.
God has given us eternal life and this life is in His Son. John 3:16.
He who has the Son has life; He who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 1 John 5:12.
All who reject Jesus will one day face God’s wrath. John 3:36
His words are life. John 6:63

JayJayDee said:

People like you hammer the trinity as if Jesus being God incarnated is the only answer. It isn't.

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How many times are we going to discuss together before you get it that I do not believe in the trinity doctrine?

JayJayDee said:

When you explore the mechanics of the ransom, you realize that the atonement (at-one-ment) sacrifice of Jesus was the offering of an equivalent, as required in God's law. "An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a life for a life".

To atone for Adam's sin, an equivalent life was needed to balance the scales of Jehovah's perfect justice. A perfect life had to be offered for a perfect life. Since no human life was now perfect (sinless) a equivalent life had to be produced from outside the now sinful human race. (Psalm 49:7-9)

Jesus did not have to be God to offer his life in exchange for Adam's....all he has to be was perfect. He was sent from heaven as Jehovah's most trusted representative to carry the enormous responsibility of rescuing Adam's children from a perpetual cycle of sin and death.

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You speak of Adam, and you should, for all humans are after Adam, and all humans sin. Jesus is no mere human. Jesus is God in the flesh and has no sin.

JayJayDee said:

Not only that, but Jesus had to negotiate the obstacles of other imperfect humans along with continual roadblocks put up by the devil and those he was able to use to oppose him. Jesus' own people were used against him. The very ones who should have been shepherds to his people were led away into apostasy. The devil managed to turn the entire nation into enemies of God's son. As prophesied, only a remnant responded to the truth.
It is human nature to run with the crowd. It takes courage to stand up and be different. (John 15:18-21)

Considering that satan already had two notches on his belt (two perfect humans had already fallen victim to his deceptions) and he had also persuaded countless spirit creatures to join him in rebellion (all previously perfect) Jesus as a mortal human was fair game. The devil's temptations prove that Jesus could have fallen victim to his deceptions as well. The devil was not stupid. Why would he try to tempt God?

Everything the devil used was an appeal to selfish desire....something he himself had fallen victim to.

Jesus' resolute stand and his complete reliance on his Heavenly Father and his empowering spirit, proved successful, and he was never overreached by the devil's attempts to derail him from his mission.

He is our role model. We are to rely on God's spirit and his word....not the butchered translations that are heavily biased towards the trinity, but study a variety of translations and refer to Concordances and other sources to reveal the truth contained in the original words.

You appear to see yourself as some sort of crusader.....but your stance is not Christ-like. You want to force things down people's throats, when Jesus never taught like that. He never forced people to listen to him, nor did he make people feel worthless. He appealed to their sense of reason and presented the truth for them to either accept or reject. He never 'guilt-tripped' anyone nor did he berate them for not accepting his words.

I do not doubt your zeal, but your approach is not at all inviting.....it is rather repelling.

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Stop letting Satan work through you by hating me and falsely judging me. Humble your heart, then you will see the love in what I say, and then God will grant you repentance unto the truth.